I am just wondering people's opinions. i am running Synthetic oil in my Explorer and have been told I cvan run it for 15,000 miles changing the filter every 3,000 and adding a quart. Is this true? WIll it harm the engine? I have 78,000 miles and want to keep the Explorer for at least another 7 years. I would like to take the best care of it possable. Also can people recommend intervals for changing other oils, such as transmission and transfercase? Any help would be appriciated! Thanks!


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TravisN1@AOL.COM
1995 XLT 4x4

Your best bet is to change your oil every 3000 miles. Although, I have herd you can get 15,000 miles plus out of synthetic, I would rather not risk it with a $20,000 + vehicle. Oil is the most important thing in your engine. If you ask anyone with an old, high mileage car, they will tell you to change the oil often.

My two cents.

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Rock'n 97 Sport 4X4

I definitly agree with Cameron. It can't hurt to change your oil, no matter what you use, every 3,000, it can only help. Especially if you want to get another several years out of your Explorer. I am interested in hearing responses to tranmission and transfer case fluids, and also oil in the axles.

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Tim Y.
1996 Ford Explorer

I believe the Chilton manual suggests changeing automatic transmission fluid every 60,000 miles. I've heard different mileages from different people. In fact a friend of mine is a mechanic at a local Ford dealorship and he said the guy who's in charge of transmissions there told him not to change the fluids at all in the automaic in his Crown Vic. He said depending on the automatic it could burn them up. I don't know how much of that is true. I strictly follow the Chilton manual and have had no problems with mine. I check my trans fluid at every oil change to make sure it's still a reddish color and at the propper level. If it is any shade other than red I'll change it. Remember to check the trans fluid when the engine is hot and on a flat surface. Also make sure the engine is in the Park possition.

The transfercase fluids should be changed every 30,000 miles and it takes ATF. Consult a Chilton manual for exact amounts. You'll want to fill the T-Case up till it runs out. The levels should be checked at every oil change and fluid should be added as needed.

Joe http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/smile.gif
94 Explorer XLT
4" Superlift Suspension
Superlift Steering Stabilizer
33X10.50 BFG AT KO's
KKM Tru-Rev Intake
Flowmaster II exahust

I don't use Synthetic oil in my Explorer, but my Lexus dealership uses Mobil 1 Full Synthetic in all of its oil changes. In fact when the cars are delivered they are drained, flushed, and refilled with Mobil 1. Lexus recommends a 7500 mile interval. I still wouldn't run Synthetic for much longer than this. True it may not break down like normal oil, but it gets full of sludge and metal dust.

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Stephen Withrow
StephenLS400@aol.com
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97 Explorer Limited
98 Lexus LS400

I will not take that chances. I rather change it at 3,000. I rather spend $$ with the oil than harming my engine. Besides I enjoy doing it myself. http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Yeah, I used to love changing my own oil, doing my own maitenance, and washing my own cars. Its a shame I can't do it anymore.

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Stephen Withrow
StephenLS400@aol.com
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97 Explorer Limited
98 Lexus LS400

I do my own oil and stuff too, but i put about 1,500 miles on my truck a month and sometimes I don't have time to do the maintnance since I work Sundays and saturday i am busy a lot. i really want to do the best for this Explorer because it is my first car that I have owned and i want to get as many years out of it as I can! we got rid of the last car in october with 100K and it still ran great...hopefully the story is same with an Explorer with 200K! http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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TravisN1@AOL.COM
1995 XLT 4x4

Travis,
I just had my rear axle fluid changed at a quick lube shop. My Explorer has 138,000 miles on it. The fluid was almost as clean as new. The mechanic had trouble loosening the fill plug though. So if anyone does this at home I'd loosen the plug before you drain it. I also got a 4 oz bottle of limited slip fluid Ford recommends, and had them put it it too.
As for my oil, I run Valvoline 10 W 30 summer and 5 W 30 in the winter. I change it and the filter every 3000 miles. A lube shop near me has a lifetime oil change for $112.00
You pay a $6.00 enviromental fee every time you have your oil changed though, but if keep
the vehicle more then 10 oil changes it pays for itself.
I also just changed the power steering fluid too. The pump is factory ..but was starting to squeal (no leaks) after I changed the fluid is't quiet.

Hi Travis
I have a 1996xlt sohc 5speed auto and i use penrite pedigree 15w60 , changing filter and oil evey 5000km as i live in the outback of australia 45c plus temp all year round .
I have changed my transmission oil by pumping it out of the cooler .
Ford recommend mercon 5 but i used redline high temp instead and the gearbox has never changed better and its been in for 30000km now and it still changes like new .

run hard or run home


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I was just wondering if anyone runs Quaker State 4X4 synthetic in their explorers? I had my oil changed the other day and I think that's what they put in it, this is the first time that they havn't asked what kind of oil I wanted in it. I wanted a different kind of oil but oh well! Any way is this a good oil for the explorer?
Thanks.

Hold on a minute. If you're driving 1,500 miles a month then you're changing you're oil every 60 days. Save a little money (not a lot, but enough to matter) by switching to semi-syn like Castrol and a new filter every oil change. I don't want to start an oil brand debate but find a brand that suits you and stick with it. Changing brands isn't worth it because of the mixing of different additive formulations. But if you're getting an oil change every two months you can easily change down to a semi.

Ok...thats sounds good..thanks for your suggestions..if anyone wants to add anything go ahead..anything is welcome!

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TravisN1@AOL.COM
1995 XLT 4x4

Not sure if this helps, But, I change every 3K miles ( Unless I forget, and then change it quick) I have gone upt to 6K once. My 94 XLT has 157K miles and the engine is still strong, no smoke. I put 5W30 in and I don't care which brand. On the tranny, I change fluid at 80 K and am getting ready to do it again. Diffs & T-case, I don't remeber, So I'll do them again too. So far things are still running very good. I would rather incur a little more operating cost than risk motor & tranny problems.

Happy Trails
Rob Robertson
McKinney TX
"It's an Explorer thing, You wouldn't understand"

Hi Travis,
Just one question. What does your oil look like when you get towards your 15K change.

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Happy Wheelin'
Ray L.
97 XLT 4X4 4.0L SOHC

Guys....I just can't see waiting 15,000 miles to change my oil, synthetic or not. Maybe I'm just an old coot set in my ways but I hate to wait 7500 miles on the Lexus, although thats what they reccomend.

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Stephen Withrow
StephenLS400@aol.com
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97 Explorer Limited 4X4 SOHC V6
98 Lexus LS400

Hey Guys,
It doesn't matter if it's synthetic or not I'd be changing it at 3K miles. I'd venture to say that it doesn't matter when you change your oil or what brand it may be, but depending on your style of driving and how often you drive your car and to what distance you drive it; all of those factors together would gauge when to change your oil. I'm open for comments.

Joe http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/smile.gif
94 Explorer XLT 94K Miles
Penzoil Every 3K Miles
Tough Guard Fram Oil Filter
KKM Tru Rev Intake
Flowmaster II Cat-Back Exahust
Custom Cat
4" Superlift Suspension
33X10.50 BFG AT KO's

Hey everyone, guess I'll move over to chime in on this oil thread. I tried to get another one started after someone mentioned doing 25,000 mi. changes using synthetic and only changing the filter every 5,000 mi or so.The person who posted the 25k mi oil change habit listed several of his vehicles that had made it to extreme mileage with no problems. He also reminded us of the original Mobil One commercials claiming you could take their synthetic 100,000 miles (remember that commercial? I do) before they yanked it off realizing they couldn't sell oil if no one ever changed it. Then again, that person with the 25,000 mile oil changes hasn't reappeared on this board, either.

I've always changed at 4,000 (not 3,000) with non-syns and have always taken my vehicles to stratospheric mileage with never an oil related problem. I now run syn in my new Explorer.

The bottom line for all of us is that none of us REALLY know the answer. We just do what we feel comfortable and safe through past experience. I am willing to say, however, that I do not know how applicable my previous experience (several hundred thousands of miles using 4,000 mile old non-syns going back to twenty seven years ago) is when forecasting the effect for a new-design engine and vastly improved oil, both non-syn and (especially) synthetic. I can make a qualified opinion from my experience only apples-to-apples; for example, I think my past experience can prove that all you guys that insist on changing at 3,000 miles are wasting at least another 1,000 miles of good use out of your oil.

There was a very old thread I tried to search up and couldn't find. Maybe it was one of the lost Modified Forum threads. Anyway, in it, one of the members mentioned working with 2,000 hp industrial engines of some sort and said that they changed oil based on chemical and particulate analysis taken at certain engine-hour intervals. He said that is the only true way to do it right, but of course that would be cost-prohibitive for an auto application.

We have to face it, until one of us does something like run their Explorer for 10,000 miles on Mobile One and then send it to a lab for testing, we're all (me included) just spouting nonsubstantiated opinions and falling back on what we feel safe with, with no real CURRENT basis for our opinions.

Just thought I'd throw my peso's worth in the ring.

Gerald
'99 EB 4x4 with not a clue to the real answer yet



[This message has been edited by GJarrett (edited 02-10-2000).]

Ray,
i have only had my Explorer for 5,000 miles. i changed the oil right when I got it and the oil is darker, but not as far as being black. i think I may change it this weekend or next, depending if i have time. Thanks

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TravisN1@AOL.COM
1995 XLT 4x4

LISTEN UP EVERYONE!

OK, I'm tired of listening to all of this... and I've thought about it all day.

Belly up to the bar and ante up, people. I want to find out how many of you REALLY want to know the answer to this question. And I'll offer to be the guinea pig.

Over the last year I have read multiple threads every single month over and over and over and over asking for opinions on this very same question: and it always ends up with us only being able to state something like "well I've always changed it at 3,000 miles and never had a problem so that's what I advise". But as I have already stated, there's not a one of us that REALLY knows when we should change oil though.

HERE'S MY OFFER: you guys can consider taking me up on this.

Here goes....
I changed my oil at 25,000 miles and have 27,000 on it now. Mobil One synthetic is currently in my engine along with the better-grade Castrol oil filter.

I will run this oil 10,000 miles in my Explorer (till it reaches 35k miles) if one of you will do the research to figure out what lab I can send the oil to for analysis (I'll change the filter midway at 5,000 mi on the oil).

We will send it in for analysis: but you have to tell me where to send it and you have to shell out the bucks for the analysis. I am, after all, betting my engine on this. At my current rate of mileage I'll be at the 35k mile point around Memorial Day. We can find out then. If it comes out clean I'll keep it in there and go to 15,000 miles (with another filter change). As long as it comes out clean I'll keep going up. We can make this a group project over the next year and we will all learn a lot with PROVEABLE RESEARCH TO BACK IT UP. Understand that I won't be totally stupid about this; if something reads a little worn at 15,000 I'm quitting right there and not going to try for 20,000. This is not a "see how far it can go before it breaks" test but a "see how far we can safely go" test.

Any takers? It's my engine.

Gerald
'99 EB 4x4
4.0 liter SOHC



[This message has been edited by GJarrett (edited 02-11-2000).]

You're on. I think that's an excellent idea.
I, too, have waded through numerous posts regarding oil change intervals vs. synthetics vs. dino, and I agree that a little lab analysis is the only way to get a real grip on the question. It would also be a good way to establish a lab source as well as the associated costs.

I think the bottom line is that all of us drive under such varying conditions that it wouldn't be suprising to find that our oil maintenance would vary as well. What I did in Florida for auto maintenance doesn't have a great deal of relevance now that I'm bouncing over the dusty, desert terrain of Arizona with Summer temps running 20-25 deg. higher than what I was used to.

I am particularly interested in your offer because you are running Mobile One. I have 35K on the odometer now and have been running Mobile One since the 6K mark. Oil changes at 3-5K along with filter. I now have Amsoil in stock and plan to make that change at the next interval. The only real way to see any difference, if any, is by the scrutiny of a lab.

Let me know what you find out, and count me in on the offer.

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Wayne O. Smith
'97 XLT 4.0 OHC

Gerald,

I'll take you up on your offer to run the Mobil 1 for 10k miles. If you will e-mail me your shipping address, I will have two oil analysis kits sent out to you. The kits are postage paid. I would like you to do one analysis at 5k (when you plan to change the filter) and the other at 10k. I will also need to communicate with you on how to take the samples without contaminating them.

The analysis will be done by Oil Analyzers. I have used these guys for over 2 years doing oil analysis on my vehicles. The reports are very comprehensive and will give you all the details on how your oil and Explorer are performing. If you don't mind, I would also like to have them send me a copy to better assist you with interpreting the report.

I have been using AMSOIL and have been extremely pleased with the wear protection and durability of the motor oil. The oil analysis I have performed has been very useful in determining when to change filters and/or oil. It has also helped my diagnose some maintenance items that otherwise I would not have noticed.

Gary

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AgExplorer
95 XLT 4X2 4.0L OHV

Well, this is what I get for opening my big trap. You're on.

Gary, I'll email you my address and phone number. I'm at 28,500 miles right now so the 5k filter change isn't too far away.

How long does it take to get lab results once they are turned in? Once I get over 10k I'd like to not have to wait too long to find out how the oil is holding up, if you know what I mean.

This is gonna be interesting!


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Gerald
"Nerves of Steel; Brain of Chipmunk"
~~~~~~~~~
'99 Eddie Bauer 4x4 4.0L SOHC-mods listed in my Explorer Registry post 7/8/99
http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/confused.gif "What the heck is he doing out here in that thing?"



[This message has been edited by GJarrett (edited 02-28-2000).]

Gerald,

Thank you for taking me up on my offer. You may be surprised (good stuff) at what we find through the oil analysis.

The results usually take anywhere from 7 to 10 business after you mail it. You should be in no danger. If the lab finds something seriously wrong, they will call you. I personally know of this only happening once, and it was not for a personal vehicle.

I am looking forward to working with you on this "experiment".

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AgExplorer
95 XLT 4X2 4.0L OHV

Gentlemen,
Like myself, I think there are a few of us who would be interested in the oil test analysis as well. Could you plese post the results as they become available.

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Rooster
94 sport (stock)
78 F-250 (2wd)

You dont mind doing this to your truck? I think its a great idea to do this type of test but it is risky. Best of luck. I will be checking back to see the results.

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Nick
'93 XLT 4 Door 4x4
Bosch Plat+4's with SplitFire Dual Core wires and a
K&N Air Filter with a Modified Air Box

If I thought I was truly risking my engine, I wouldn't do it.

I am making what I believe is a reasonable assumption based on my prior experience. That assumption is that we are being overly conservative in our oil changes. Factors I consider in this assumption:

1) I ran an aircooled Kawasaki motorcyle something like 80,000 miles from 1977 until 1983 changing oil (non-syn of course) every 4,000 miles. Sometimes I didn't get around to it until after 5,000 miles. Complete engine teardown at 75,000 miles for an unrelated issue revealed the innards -- cylinders, rings, valves, etc -- in great shape. It was geared to run much higher RPMs than autos, so I consider the 80k miles equal to much greater auto miles not only because of the abuse it took being aircooled but also the greater amount of RPMs it cycled getting there.

2) Same 4,000 - 5,000 mile schedule, Ford 289, somewhere over a quarter-million miles.

3) Same schedule, 1977 Olds Cutlass 350, 150,000+ miles. This engine had lotsa problems but none were oil related.

4) Same schedule, 1987 Honda, 270,000 miles.

5) Same schedule, 1993 Taurus, 120,000 miles.

RE: all of the above (scheduled change at 4,000 but sometimes stretched it to 5,000+), I have NEVER had an oil-related breakdown. Nearly fourteen years ago when I bought the Honda the suggested change interval was 7,500 miles; same for the newer Taurus. Oil is much better now than it was fourteen years ago, and MUCH better than what I ran through that aircooled engine twenty years ago.

I am now running the best sythetic that we have in the current day. I do not think it is a stretch to think that it will be capable of performing admirably for 2,500 miles longer than the suggested non-syn oil change of the vehicle I bought thirteen and a half years ago with the oils available at that time. The preliminary check at the 5k filter change that Gary is providing me with will provide an interim "insurance" analysis at the same mileage that I have often changed my non-syns at in my previous vehicles.

Gerald


[This message has been edited by GJarrett (edited 02-28-2000).]

Here's an anecdote that will get you to cringe like I did when I first heard. I have a coworker who bought a Toyota station wagon new 13 years ago and recently traded it in for a Honda something-or-other. Anyway, for both vehicles he uses synthetic oil, and changes his oil only once a year, only making sure that it is full. http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/eek.gif


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Brian Tomarchio
1993 XLT 4x4

Thanks for doing this..it will help a lot of us settle the argument about the langth of time to run the oil. Keep us posted!


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TravisN1@AOL.COM
1995 XLT 4x4

Can you ask the oil lab pepole if this is true, which may strike up more debate.

Back in chemistry class, a professor here in Pennsylvania, stated that PA oil such as Quaker State (our nickname) Pennzoil (for Pennsylvania oil) and Wolf head, is better than southern oil, such as those from Texas, because PA. oil is alkaline base petroleum, and the south oil is acid base. The alkaline being better corrosion protection, and producing less damaging sediment.

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91 Sport
"Drive it like ya stold it"

Raven,

I don't know if there is really an advantage to where the oil comes from as far as it applies to automotive use. The base stock for motor oil is the very last thing that is taken from crude. Gasoline, other fuels, and a myriad of other things come out first. The additives that are blended with the base stock are responsible for fighting acid formation. This component is called the Total Base Number or TBN. The higher this number, the better the motor oil will be at preventing acid formation. Most motor oils will have a TBN in the 5 to 6 range and some synthetics may get as high as 8. I know of one manufacturer that takes their TBN to 12.

The oil analysis Gerald is doing will only tell how the oil will perform in his Explorer. Each vehicle, just like people, performs differently. The only way to tell how the oil (and your vehicle) is performing is to do oil analysis. Just think of it as a blood test for your Explorer.

Brian, I know a lot of people who only change their oil once a year, or longer, including myself. I personally know someone who has almost 50k on his current oil. Most are performing oil analysis and all are changing the filters at regular intervals. Sure is nice to schedule this during the spring or fall. I hated getting under my vehicles to change oil in the middle of summer here in Houston.
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AgExplorer
95 XLT 4X2 4.0L OHV

[This message has been edited by AgExplorer (edited 03-02-2000).]

Very interesting thread. I have no doubt that Gerald should have no problems with his vehicle. I had a Dodge van that I used to change the oil (dino) evry 15k or so and it had no engine related problems up to 220k, change my Navajo oil every 4-5000 which is probably to soon, so it will be interesting to see the results of this test.

I dont think I have a vehicle that has a recommended oil change interval of less than 7,500 miles (navajo included) ex. my wifes volvo is 5000 (a turbo engine I guess).
Have we all been conditioned to the 3000 mile by the oil companies/ oil change shops that benefit from the increased change frequency?

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Steve VB
91 Navajo
2 1/2" Rancho,
31" Goodyear AT/S

I've just been reading thru this whole discussion about oil change frequency and personally agree with Gerald that nobody seems to have a definitive answer. While I applaud his willingness to put up his Explorer for the high mileage experiment, I also believe that it won't prove anything.
His Eddie Bauer has approx.30k miles on it. Current technology (engine and oil) will keep any engine running at least 100k miles. After 38 years of car ownership (16 vehicles if I can trust my memory) I can offer the following:
Country of vehicle manufacture:
American: Ford 3, GM 2, Chrysler 1
German: Mercedes 2, BMW 2, VW 2, Porsche 1
Japanese: Nissan 1, Toyota 1
British: Austin Healey 1
The only real problem that could be considered oil related was a worn down camshaft lobe on a '76 Malibu after 25K miles. They tried to weasel out of repairing it under warranty by claiming that I hadn't changed the oil in 4 month (5000 miles, calling for change every 7500 or 3 month under extreme conditions). After determining what is defined as extreme conditions, they agreed that it probably was defective and fixed it.
I normally follow the vehicle manufacturer recommended oil change intervals.
Outside the instance with the Malibu, oil related problems were limited to smoking (valves) after either high mileage (over 150K miles) or abuse. Used the Porsche for club events like slaloms and rallying. It started to burn oil after 90K.
The one thing I do though is to change the oil on any new vehicle after the first 1000 miles.
My current vehicles, maintenance schedule and status are as follows:
1. '99 Explorer Sport: 12K miles, oil change every 5K, no problems. I will go to synthetic at about 20K.
2. '96 BMW 328i conv (my wife's car): 32K miles, oil change when the indicator tells me to do so (normally between 8-10K miles, Mobil 1 ). The way I look at it is this: They spend a lot of money on the technology, I payed for it, I'm going to follow it. Also, at 8K miles per year, I'll sell the car long before it will develop any problems.
3. '72 MB 280SEL 4.5: 270K miles, driven now less then 1000 miles a year. Oil changed about once a year. Before I put it into semi-retirement (7 years ago), it started to burn about a quart every 1500 miles).
I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should do. I do, however, agree with Gerald that under normal driving conditions, changing your oil every 3000 miles is overkill. But, on the other hand, my Ford dealer charges $19.95 for an oil and filter change. That's less than a tank of gas. If that's what it takes to make anybody feel secure, it's cheap compared to the overall cost of ownership.
JMHO





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Peter
'99 Sport 4wd SOHC V6

Steve, I haven't seen a manufacturer's recommended oil change frequency less than 7,500 miles in a long time either. Shoot, that Ford 289 had a suggested change interval of 4,000 miles and that's straight from the owner's manual of the vehicle it was in: a 1965 Fairlane, 36 years ago!


Peter, I agree it won't prove anything about long term engine life since mine is way too young. However, I do expect to learn how long a synthetic oil really retains its ability to do its job lubricating and protecting the engine.

I just sent in the first sample. I changed my filter at 30k miles (5k on the oil). Results should be back in a couple of weeks. Stay tuned.

Gerald

[This message has been edited by GJarrett (edited 03-23-2000).]

Gerald:
I'm interested in the results of the oil analysis. My guess is that it's good for at least 10K before you'll see any deterioration.


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Peter
'99 Sport 4wd SOHC V6

[This message has been edited by Peter Weber (edited 03-23-2000).]

ANALYSIS OF 5K OLD OIL IS IN....
Heh heh heh... Wow. Are you guys gonna be interested in this!

First off, let me say the report has put me in information overload and I may need AgExplorer's help here if I misinterpret something. AgExplorer, I assume you got the copy of my report so please add your input.

I got analyses of 32 categories! under three major headings: Physical Properties, Oil Degradation, and Spectrographic Analysis in PPM(parts per million) of trace minerals/wear metals. Whew. As a result, be aware that in this report and the following ones later on, I will skip most of the information and only key in on the relevant ones -- for example, I don't need to bother telling anybody that I had neglible quantities of glycol in my oil. And if I did have it, then it's something wrong in my engine and not yours and so is still irrelevant to this study. Here goes.

Mobil One 5w-30 / 5,000 miles old

Physical Properties:
Viscosity @ 100 degrees Centrigrade, 10.5 cSt. Minimum to Maximum range for 30 weight is 9.3-12.5. Viscosity is dead center in allowable range. Cool.

Oil Degradation: This is what it's all about and what I wanted to learn doing this. How long is this stuff going to last? Well look for yourself! So far;

Soot-- NA, no contaminants. High levels would have indicated combustion problems or extended drain intervals. I guess 5,000 miles isn't an extended drain interval after all, is it? http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/tongue.gif
Oxidation, scaled as a percentage of allowable, 1.0%!!! http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Nitration, same scale, 34.3%. Hmmm.
TBN, or total base number, explained in AgExplorer's post above. According to him, "...Most motor oils will have a TBN in the 5 to 6 range and some synthetics may get as high as 8. I know of one manufacturer that takes their TBN to 12..." Mine is 9.6 at 5,000 miles old!

To quote the lab report, "Results of tests performed indicate:... oil is suitable for continued use / resample at next regular interval". People, this stuff really may last quite awhile. It looks like the worst reading I got was concerning nitration in the oil and even then it's only 1/3 used up. What we do not know at this point is if the nitration degradation is linear. One third used up at 5k miles may not necessarily mean two thirds used up at 10k miles. I can't wait to get the 10k reading during the Moab trip.

Spectrographic Analysis:
As an aside, the only reg flag for my particular vehicle came in here. I show 30 PPM of aluminum in my oil which is highlighted as an elevated amount. Would anyone have any theories on what this may be trying to tell me? Why do I have excessive aluminum floating around in my oil?

Rock 'N Roll! Is this stuff fun to learn, or what?

VERDICT AT 5,000 MILES: if you are using Mobile One, I believe we now have PROOF that you are totally wasting your money doing a 5k oil change.

To define the 5,000 miles-- my driving is a good mix of mostly daily commuting in heavy traffic five days a week at sixty or more miles per day, interspersed with weekend trips of easy highway miles. I believe that unless you are driving an Explorer as a Manhattan cabbie, or using it only to truck cross-country on the interstates with your cruise control button doing most of the work for you, that we can all trust these figures as being relevant to each of our vehicles.

http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/smile.gif
Gerald, see ya off the road!
<{{{><

PS/ oh yeah, the oil does look blacker than non-syn, as has been mentioned in other posts. In the old days I would have thought that was something bad (time to change it!). But this test does seem to prove that the oil is doing its job working and cleaning, while keeping all of its lubricative properties intact.



[This message has been edited by GJarrett (edited 03-29-2000).]

Gerald,
thanks for posting the results. Kind of what you and I expected, I think. I predict 10K to still come out good. It'll get interesting at the 15 and even 20K intervals (if your willing to push it that far).
By the way, this would also be a great test with regular oil. Any volunteers?

------------------
Peter
'99 Sport 4wd SOHC

How about you?

Gerald,

The report looked very good. I was surprised to see the TBN as high as it was. Your Explorer is one finely tuned machine. You should probably see the TBN go down to around 5-6 on the next report. If that prediction comes true, you will get at least 15,000 miles out of the Mobil 1. We don't want it to go below 2 because at that point, you will lose your protection against acid formation very quickly. Just something to keep in mind.

As a comparison, the Physical Properties and Oil Degradation are almost exactly what my Explorer using AMSOIL saw at 5000 miles. The big difference came in on the wear metals. The PPM for Iron, Lead and Aluminum were half of what you had. If you are interested, I can probably explain why this is happening based on my comparison of the reports.

The 10,000 mile report will be interesting to see. Call or e-mail me if you would like me to explain the report in detail.

For those who are interested in performing oil analysis, the kits can be purchased from AMSOIL for $19.95. This cost includes a detailed spectrographic analysis and two-way postage. Call 1-800-956-5695 and ask for item# G-1451. Or go to Oil Analysis Kits (http://intershop.amsoil.com/cgi-bin/Amsoil.storefront/1590139115/Catalog/1183). Please use customer number 417442. Thank you.

------------------
AgExplorer
95 XLT 4X2 4.0L OHV
AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants & Filters
NGK Platinum Plugs
Jacobs Electronics Wires

[This message has been edited by AgExplorer (edited 03-30-2000).]

Gerald
How come I expected that reply from you. http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/wink.gif
Sure, I'll volunteer. Same deal as you offered. My engine, somebody else's nickel for the analysis. Now, after I opened my big trap, I did some thinking (normal for me, shoot off my mouth and then think about it after). What are we trying to prove? The discussion was if oil should be changed at factory recommended intervals or at the often suggested 3K intervals and if synthetic could be left in longer to offset the extra cost.
I'm not going to offer to run dino to double the recommended interval to 10K. I'll send in an oil sample after 3000 miles to see if it's in good enough condition to run to 5k as recommended by the factory. I won't even change the filter.
I'm currently at 11,500. This is in 16 month. The last change (oil an filter by the dealer) was done at 9,800 three weeks ago (I went on an 1100 mile trip 2 weeks ago). As you can see, I'm not putting a lot of miles on my Explorer, but with the Moab trip coming up, I should hit the 3K interval during that trip or shortly after. Then we'll do another analysis at 5K, but I'll change it then regardless. If the 3K test comes out good, it might save the people that change at that mileage a few bucks. The idea isn't that we want to run the same oil until it's completely wasted and loses its qualities to protect the engine.
By the way, there were some messages posted that either stated or implied that the factory recommended oil change interval is 7500 miles. My manual for my 99 says 5000 and for my 97 before that it stated the same.



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Peter
'99 Sport 4wd SOHC

Dagnabit Peter, now I've gotta go out and look at my owner's manual. I KNOW I remember the recommmended oil change on my Honda and Taurus was 7,500 miles and I thought I read the same thing for my Explorer. I've got the same engine as you so maybe I didn't really see that. Gotta go look.

Gerald,

You're welcome. The information we are gathering will benefit a lot of people. We appreciate you going through all the trouble taking the samples.

When we get through with this "experiment", I'm going to have a friend of mine figure out a way to get the reports online to make them available to other posters.

Let us know how we can be of further assistance.

Gary

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AgExplorer
95 XLT 4X2 4.0L OHV
AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants & Filters
NGK Platinum Plugs
Jacobs Electronics Wires

Well, you're right. It's 5,000 mile recommended change intervals for my Explorer. Oh well, I never made a mistake all last year so I guess I was due http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/wink.gif

I'm curious about the dino stuff too now. If you need a "sponsor", you might email "atty" Wayne O. Smith who was the original guy who said he'd go for the offer(read his post above), but that's the last we've heard from him. I didn't know Gary "AgExplorer" was shelling out a $20 bill for each of these, so he's already paid $60 for the privilege of satisfying our curiosities. Thanks, Gary!

Gerald

I'll tell you what. Since I'm talking about two tests (3K & 5K), if somebody will sponsor me for one, I'll pick up the other one myself. Any takers?

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Peter
'99 Sport 4wd SOHC

Thanks a lot you guys! I really appriciate all the results. This is really helpful. I am assuming Dino is conventional oil? I think it would be cool to do the same with conventional oil to compare how much longer standard oil can stand up to synthetic. Also in the future it may be beneficial to do a synthetic blend and see how long that lasts. Just some ideas. Thanks a lot everyone!


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TravisN1@AOL.COM
1995 XLT 4x4

Okay people!...seems like everybody are going at it with Mobil 1 and AMSoil. Personally, when I used to have my '92 XLT I've used Mobil 1. The main reson of course is better for the engine wear. But seems not for the seals and gaskets, speaking for keeping the explorer for long term ownership. All I see most of these post (all over sites) was concerning oil leaks. I quote one user " no oil leaks...yet" Makes it sound like "be ready for leaks in the future" I am considering going to stay with the conventional oil. I do like changing my own oil, between 3-4 thousand miles for my new 2000. I want everybodys honest opinion for the FACTS for oils.

P.S. whats the best conventional oil out???...for all(most)people use

I personally use (and yes sell) Archer Pertoleum Products. This isn't an ad for Archer, they sell mostly to farmers, ranchers, and industrial contracts but I feel I can help out here. I try to stay out of all posts involving oil, my opinions are biased twards Archer and I would rather not start anything here. I think it is good that there is so much intereast in the oil analysis, and that people are trying to disprove the myths of when to change oil. The only way to really know when to change your oil is by analysis, all oils are different and they will break down at different rates. There are many different variables such as engine condition, and driving style to name a couple. Synthetic oil doesn't break down as fast as conventional oil but it does get contaminated just as fast. As soon as an oil gets contaminated it is useless. Oil may last 10,000 miles in one vehicle but only 4,000 in somebody elses identical vehicle. For example, I have found out through oil analysis that oil can only go about 3000 miles befor it becomes to contaminated (due to fourwheeling and overall poor condition of my engine) so I use 10W30 conventional oil. The oil in my Neon however can go about 8000 befor being to contaminated, so I use 10W30 syntheric. I should also point out that the oil still isn't broke down very far at this piont, just overly contaminated. I know vehicles that go 12,000 miles between oil changes.

The point I am trying to make here is that what is good for one may not be good for others. The only real way to know what will work for your engine is to establish a good oil management program. I personally have analysis done every other oil change, so I can keep an eye on my engine. It is free for me (and anyone using Archer products). As for which brand to use, pick one with a good base oil and minimal additives (79 cent Wal Mart oil isn't a good oil.) An oil with too much additive is its own worst enemy. I can prvide anyone intereasted analysis breakdown for most any brand oil both synthetic and conventional but as I said befor the only true way to know is by having YOUR oil analyzed.

This has gotten long enough. I am open for any questions or comments (good or bad).
JAY

Jay,
If I use your brand of oil they provide FREE oil analysis? If so is the oil synthetic or conventional and where can I purchase it? Thanks!

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TravisN1@AOL.COM
1995 XLT 4x4

Yes, that is true. Archer provides free oil analysis to all its customers. I really doen't know who the local dealer is around the Chicago area, or if there even is one. Archer isn't a retail oil supplier, they sell mostly in high volume (by the barrel, not the quart). If there is a local dealer though, he should be very open to selling to you, and helping you out with your first analysis (teaching you how to collect it and read the results). I will see who the closest dealer to you and let you know.

The District Manager for the St. Charles area is Dick Sinn, his number is (309) 923-9126. Give him a call and he can tell you the closest dealer to you is. He will also be able to answer any and all questions you may have. If you can't get ahold of him, you can call the Division Manager at (309) 289-4046. I don't know who the Division manager is right now. I hope all this helps.

JAY

Thanks for finding the info. I'll look into that next timne i need oil.

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TravisN1@AOL.COM
1995 XLT 4x4

just a word of advice, never switch back to 10w30, 5w30 etc, after having synthetic in it, and switching back, it can cause extreme wear or damage to the engine.

D F Willy,...really? switching back to conventional causes engine damage??..am confused when you mention 5w-30, 10w-30, etc..whether you mean switching the grade type or from the conv. to the syn. Help us out there

D F Willy, I also wish to hear where you learned this from.

The specific point of this entire discussion is to learn through verifiable analysis and substantiated fact what really is happening with our oil.

Please explain your comment.

i have heard that switching back anf forth causes no such damage. My dad switches from synthetic to conventional in our 94 E150 van and it hasen't caused noticable problems. it has 69,000 miles. Also he mostly uses synthetic in his Mercedes but sometimes will put conventional in if thats all we have. That car is a 99 with 28,000 miles. He has been told by other people who are in the car field that it won't cause any damage at all.

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TravisN1@AOL.COM
1995 XLT 4x4

Update. Just thought I'd let you guys know the 10k mile oil change will be occurring for sure during the Moab trip. We'll know results by mid-May.


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Gerald
"Nerves of Steel; Brain of Chipmunk"
'99 Eddie Bauer 4x4 4.0L SOHC aka "The Jeepeater"
Gerald's Truck (http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000010.html)
"What the heck is he doing out here in that thing???"

Gerald,

If I remember correctly, your test doesn't involve changing the filter at 5K along with a new quart of oil. Did your 5K test data mention anything about doing so? Do the numbers suggest that changing the filter and a quart is a worthwhile idea?

Gerald,

In your review of the 5K test data, was there anything that suggests changing the filter (along with a fresh quart of oil) at 5K is a worthwhile idea?

I just confirmed some interesting info. I heard that you can mix synthetic oil with conventional oil and it would not cause problems. This was interesting to me. I had thought that only one type at a time.

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TravisN1@AOL.COM
1995 XLT 4x4
80,000 miles
K&N Drop-in
Bosch +4's
BFG Long Trails
Have a nice day! :-)

Jeff, you are mistaken. I did change my filter when I did the test at 5k and replaced the lost quart of oil with a new one. If you want to get specific about it, this 10k analysis will be testing 80% 10k old oil with the 20% 5k old oil added to it 5k miles ago.

Gerald

Ooops. Never mind.

Gerald,
I was just wondering how it's going with the milage and if you made it to the next test time yet? Igot up to 5,000 but changed the oil anyway just because I had some royal purple I wanted to put in, but I am thinking of keeping the royal purple in there longer..I am just curious to see the next results.

Travis,

Would you be interested in doing some oil analysis with the purple product?

Travis, I've got about 1200 miles to go. I'll probably be changing the oil and sending it in for analysis around the end of the month.

It'd sure be interesting if someone else on this board decided to see what Dino oil looks like at 5,000 miles. I thought of doing that after this, but I'm sticking with synthetics from now on.
Gerald

I guess I might be interested in the results. How much will it cost to do the tests?

Would you do a dino test at 5k miles?

Travis,

I'll cover the costs the oil analysis kits if you're willing to take the time to take the samples. E-mail me and we can go over the details.

I recently talked to my regional manager, and I am prepaired to provide the oil and cover the cost of analysis for anybody willing to do a 5k test with a dino product. There are a couple of catches though. First you must use our oil. Second, we would prefer a test vehicle similar to Geralds to make the compairisons more accurate. We would also request that you provide us with a sample of what ever you are currently using when switching over to Archer for the test so we will have a baseline of where your engine currently is.

For those who don't know, Archer Pertoleum was founded back in 1929. Archer line of lubercants cater mostly to Ranchers, Farmers and industrial contracts, people who buy in bulk. The oil isn't available "over the shelf" at auto part stores, but rather through a network of Dealers. All of Archers base oils meet Mil spec MIL-6082D which is designated for aircraft engines.

I'm sorry if that sounded like an advertisemant for Archer. It isn't, I just wanted who ever was intereasted in a 5k test to know the product they would be asked to use.

If anybody is intereasted, or has further questions please contact me directly or through this forum.

AgExplorer. I e-mailed you...not sure if it worked..let me know if you get the mail. Thanks!

I guess I would also run 5K on Regular oil but my engine is no where near Geralds...i only have the OHV and it's got 85K

At 15,068 miles I went ahead and changed my oil. I now have new Mobil One and a Bosch premium oil filter in my Explorer.

Before taking this final analysis into account, remember that unless you run a taxi service with your Explorer or do a LOT of towing, I probably run mine harder than you do: 100 degree summer daily commutes, driving every day in rush hour stop-and-go traffic, interspersed with several offroad trips in 4wd low on hot and dusty trails.

At 15,068 miles my TBN is still equal to or above a new dino oil's ability to keep the engine cleaned of acid combustion/byproducts. Oxidation is still less than half used up; 41% of allowable. Nitration is two-thirds used up at 68%. Nitration and oxidation should be at a similar level so the nitration is identified as being elevated, even though still not used up. Gary has said earlier in the thread that it is probably because of how hard I drive my vehicle. As a result of the nitration/oxidation ratio the analsyis suggested I check my pollution control system.

New developments at this mileage: a notation of "silicon elevated due to to silicone lube or sealant"; and the viscosity finally inched up out of the allowable range for 30 weight oil (it's become between 30 and 40 weight oil now).

I still have the elevated levels of aluminum I always have had. I have a new theory that it may be a sign of wear and a possible future problem from the "notorious" timing chain tensioner in my SOHC.

The analysis finally suggested changing my oil now, which as I stated earlier I had already just done when I sent in the sample.

Since my onboard trip computer/message center has its oil change setting default at 7,500 miles, I think I will simply use that from now on. I would have no problem running the oil for 10,000 miles (with a 5k mi filter change mid-way) based on my analysis at that mileage, but for simplicity sake I believe I will buy premium oil filters with my synthetic oils and just leave them both in for 7,500 miles at a whack and change both then. Should I ever begin easier driving -- less stop-and-go, more highway miles -- I wouldn't hesitate to run it 15,000 miles again. Every reading I got was still way within acceptable range except my viscosity showed up slightly thicker than 30 weight. Big deal:rolleyes:

I believe we have conclusively proven you can put more than 3,000~4,000 miles -- a lot more -- on your oil (at least we know you can if you are using synthetic), which is what the consensus opinions were once Travis started this thread.

CONCLUSION FROM RESULT OF THIS EXPERIMENT
Travis, you started this thread asking if you really can run your synthetic oil 15,000 miles. The answer is yes. Your question assumed 3,000 mile filter changes with single replacement quarts and I did it with 5,000 mile filter changes. If you are running synthetic oil, you are safe to 15,000 miles no matter how hard you drive. If you want to be very conservative you can still:

change the oil at 10,000 miles with a filter change midway at 5,000 miles; or
change every 7,500 miles.

We now have hard data to prove this. We no longer have to rely on conjecture and guesswork from previous habits and Jiffy Lube commercial suggestions.

I think we all owe AgExplorer a debt of gratitude for ponying up the analysis kits and enabling this study.

PS / I would still like to see someone belly up to the bar and run dino oil for 5,000 miles; or 6,000 miles with a filter change halfway through at 3,000 miles. I bet dino oil lasts at least twice as long as we think it does.

[Edited by GJarrett on 08-05-2000 at 09:01 AM]

Wow.. all this info is great! I dont feel bad about missing my oil change now... although I have to do it anyways becuase I just had my engine open... so Ill probably do it tomorrow... but from then on... its in there for 10K! Neat. Are there any takers for the non-syth yet? Hmmm

nick

Gerald, thanks for posting the results. I agree with you that it proves that synthetic oil can be run to 10K miles between changes. I don't drive my Sport as hard as you drive and am of the opinion that for average driving, dino oil is sufficient. Under extreme conditions like you described or for racing, by all means use synthetic.
Re Dino oil analysis.
I offered once before if somebody will pick up the cost of one the analysis kits. I'll pay for the other one myself. My Explorer doesn't get driven as much as Geralds. After 20 month I have only 16,500 miles on the odometer so far with over 5000 miles on attributable to three trips (Moab in May was one of them).
I'm currently running regular oil (dino) on the factory recommended schedule. Don't know the brand, whatever my dealer puts in when I bring it in for service. The same with the filter.
I'm doing this for a very specific reason, the tensioners. If I should have any problems, I don't want anybody pointing the finger at me and say I didn't follow the recommended schedule suggested by Ford.
I would test the oil at 3K (no filter change) and then run it to 5K and test again just before I take it in for an oil change by the dealer.
Once again, any takers to split the cost with me?

[Edited by Peter Weber on 08-05-2000 at 07:54 AM]

Gerald

Thanks for doing all of the work, came out about as I speculated in a previous post. Thanks again for the great info.

About the elevated alum. you ascribe to the timing tensioners. I think that the tensioners wear surfaces are made from plastic (some phenolic-sp? type it looks like), I get this from the pictures in a Haynes manual- cause I have an OHV. But on my engine the tensioner and the guide are both some type of plastic.

Thanks again - look forward to reading:"OIL part II"

Just another reason why the site is one of the best around....people who are willing to bet their @$$ in order to help others. Thanks alot everyone out there.

I'll be changing my oil to synthetic at my next change.

Thanks a ton for answering a question before I ask it.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Gerald,

Great summary about your latest oil analysis report. With the exception of the silicon, I would have predicted the results you received. Thank you for taking the time to do this.

Peter, E-mail me your mailing address and I will send you a couple of oil analysis kits for testing the dino oil. You will have to get the brand and weight (5W-30, 10W-30, etc.) of the oil you are currently using to get an accurate test.

For those of you interested in using synthetic lubricants(and those who are currently using them), AMSOIL makes a complete line of motor oil, drive train lubricants, fuel additives, oil & air filters, and grease for your Explorer and other vehicles. These are the finest automotive lubricants in North America, if not the world. Sept 1 we will be releasing a truly universal synthetic ATF. It will be the ONLY ATF to meet Chrysler, GM, Ford, etc. requirements for automatic transmission fluid. E-mail me or click the link in my signature for more info.

Robert,
that is exactly what started this (a few months ago). We want to determine if it is really neccessary to change the oil every 3K miles, or if the manufacturers recommended interval works just as well and/or if synthetics are better and do they keep their lubricating qualities longer.

Gimp -reading the above- the question is why? Take yourself out to a really nice dinner on the 50% savings on oil changes.

If the engine has aluminum heads, your probably getting the elevated readings from the heads. My 1992 4.6 was notorious for that, the valves would suck oil from the guides being worn, which has been corrected in later years, and the cam bearings were also aluminum. I believe the heads on the sohc are similiar in design, so that would be where the aluminum comes from, but I wouldn't get concerned, from how you seem to care for your truck, it would be at least 200K before the heads would show any wear that would be considered repair time.

I'm going to try the dino oil thing using Castrol5W30 and Moly Black Gold, which I finally found a few bottle of, and see what the results are on this 5.0.

My previous tests 5 years ago on my old Ford LTD 5.0 using Castrol and MBG were fantastic after 10K, and I went to 20K just for kicks and the results were very good, but it was HIGHLY recomended that I change the oil at that point due to elevated nitrates. As far as wear, there was NONE. Unfortunately I could no longer get the MBG and was forced to change my oil at regular intervals instead. But after partially tearing down the engine to put it into my Grand Marquis, I popped the caps and miked the crank and rods, and found them to be within .0002" of when they were originally installed when I rebuilt the engine 130K miles before. I would drag race this car, pull trailers, haul almost 2000 lbs of materials, etc in this old car before I found frame rot that spelled the end to the car.

I always used Castrol, and I started to use the MBG after the second oil change when I had 3000 on the engine, and put it in twice a year.

I'm going to try it again, and I'll post the results when I'm done. Don't forget I haul a 7000 lb trailer almost every weekend, well I will again once Firestone replaces the tires. :fire:

Thank you all for all the great information. I started this thread a lot time ago and am glad it could help prove a myth about synthetic oil. I really appriciate all the time that went into these results and all the work. This site is an excellent resource and everyone here is great!

Take this for what it is worth. It is my opinion that the 3,000 mile oil change is a marketing gimmic. My 91 Escort has 163,000 miles on it and I probably average 7-10,000 miles between oil & filter changes. My 92 Explorer has 116,000 miles and I average 6-8K miles between changes, same with my 91 Bronco which has 80K miles.

My dad was an engineer at Ford's for 37 years and did lots and lots of performance testing on engines. He was one of the consulting engineers for the "Ask Smokey" column in Popular Mechanics magizine. Part of his job was to test and approve oils and additives. This is what he found: most name brand oils are pretty much the same, synthetics are marginaly better than regular oil, oil additives (STP, Slick 50 and others) do nothing to increase performance or longevity, and the 3,000 mile oil change is a marketing ploy invented by oil companies and supported by the car manufacturers because it lessens their complaints due to engine failure. It also has increased dealer revenue.

Thats a given!!! And your absolutely right about those additives like Slick 50 and durolube. I would never put teflon in an engine, if it was meant to be in an engine the manufacturer would put it in!

The only thing I ever used was QX, which manufacturers do use, but they don't want the consumers to know! :D

I finally found all my old documentaion on it, and I will get it all on a website so you can all check it out. This stuff is awesome.

Just a heads up. I only have about 400 miles to go until the first sample is taken and the filter is replaced. i just had 1 question. WHen I add the new quart of oil after I install the new filter I have to put Royal Purple back in in order to keep the test accurate, don't I? The problem is I don't have any Royal Purple and don't know where to get any....any suggestions?

Go to CarPartsOnSale.com (http://www.performancepartsonsale.com/parts/search.cfm?keywords=true&matchpartial=true&useall=true&manu=all&string=royal+purple&submit.x=5&submit.y=6). This link will take you directly to Royal Purple they have for sale. Let me know if you need any further assistance.

Just wanted to say thanks for the info. My wife says thanks for the night out ... from oil change savings!

Hello Everyone,
Since this group is costing me $$, I'll toss my input in.
Tested a 91 4x4x EB, now with 183K and a (shudder) D-50 with 196K on it. Both use Castrol Syntec with any filter that's on sale. Normally the oil and filter gets changed around 5K but before our senior chemist retired he did some testing to satisfy his, and our curiosity at work.
Our chem lab, unofficially ;-), tested oil for multiple vehicles when things were slow at night. My Syntec didn't show breakdown even at 17K before changing. Others ran Mobil 1 or Amsoil for over 20K. We all changed filters at intervals varying to over 7K. The person running Amsoil sent his somewhere to find out when to change his filter.
The D-50 had a new head gasket at 183K. The dealer stated
they couldn't believe the cleanliness and lack of wear for the mileage shown on the odometer.
While this will not serve as quantitative evidence to the group it may serve as a guide. As one that used natural oil in his 62 Mercury and other vehicles though it feels better changing oil more frequently.
Now if you're wondering how this group is costing me $$ as stated at the beginning...
You have 'made' me order a KKM, a Gibson CatBack system, and when I decide which suspension lift to order! Well, now you understand.
Bob

Ok, I sent the oil sample in. It should be shipped out today and get there tomorrow. i can't wait to see the results. The oil looked dark, but as long as they say it is still safe then i'll continue use. I'll keep you all posted.

Results came back with a "no action needed" state for the oil. I will run the oil another 5K miles and see if it still works.

What brand and viscocity of oil are you using? Brand of filter? I know the info is in the thread somewhere but just a reminder for convenience. Thank you.

Originally posted by 95XLT
Results came back with a "no action needed" state for the oil. I will run the oil another 5K miles and see if it still works.

Travis, could you share some of the actual readings? I am particularly interested in your TBA count and oxidation and nitration.

I am running 10W-30 Royal Purple. The TBN count was 7.6. Oxedation was <1.0% and Nitration was 22.9%.

The old filter was a Fram Double Guard and the new is a Fram Tough Guard

The Royal Purple stuff is synthetic, right? I'm still very interested in a dino analysis. I believe Peter is doing one but it may be next decade before he drives far enough to have to change his oil....

Yes, the R/P is synthetic. After the R/P is dead i may try a Castrol Syntec blend test if anyone is interested in setting me up with the kits again.

for those following this thread a question about switching to synthetics

After many months I finally have my new engine together.
Heres what I am doing/plan to do.
Filled it with Castrol 10w 30 to start it- fired right up ran it for about 20 min checked for leaks etc. let it cool, changed the filter.
Topped off the oil and am now 350 miles into driving 500 miles, at that point I am going to change the oil and filter using Castrol 10w30.
Plan to run that 1000 miles and then change the filter, and after another 1500miles change the oil and filter, using the 10w30 Castrol again.
After 3000 more miles(6000 from the start) I will change the oil and filter, at this point I plan a change to synthetics( most likely Mobil 1), the engine will have 6000 miles on it at this point- should be plenty of time for the engine to be broken in. Anyone know or think that I could change to synthetics at the 3000 mile mark? is 6000 too early?
Do you think Im changing the filter enough/too much.? Im thinking that even though the engine was cleaned ( and cleaned) there will still be some machining debris floating around, and as the new parts wear together some particles from that, so changing the filter(0,500,1500,3000,6000 miles)often would catch some of it. Anyone think I should be changing the filter more frequently to get rid of the machining leftovers?

Its my plan but looking for input yea or nea.

Gerald,
you're right, it's taking me a while to get those 3000 miles accumulated since my last oil change. Been sticking close to home for a variety of reasons (my wife's health, visitors). On top of that, our 15 year old dog had been in poor health for a few months. He died three weeks ago.
I'll be gone for two weeks on a trip to Ontario, Canada.
After that, I'm planning on a couple photography trips, so the mileage for the oil test should start accumulating soon.

i don't see why you can't use the synthetic from day 1, but i know changing it that often could get expensive. I would change over to synthetics at the 3,000 mile change if not earlier. I didn't think that synthetics couldn't be used for break in period as our neighbor's 98 Vette came from the factory filled with synthetic Mobil 1. The only reason I can thik of for not using it from start is cost, which is a large factor. So just do what you want. I don't think it matters.

Steve,

It would not be a problem switching to a synthetic at 3000 miles. This is sufficient time for everything in your new motor to seat and break-in. Some of the test data I have seen with Mobil 1 suggest that it would not be problem using it during break-in. Maybe that's why GM can use it as a factory-fill.

[i have used synthetics and change every 20,000 , my old car had 450,000 km and no problems . i don't even use ANY oil between changes . it's my 3rd truck using synthetics and no problems yet at 185,000 km .

[Edited by jerry989 on 10-22-2000 at 09:43 PM]

Thanks for all the great replys. I have replaced my oil filter, but was wondering if I am supposed to take a second sample at 7,500 miles or 10,000 miles? Thanks

Travis,

Take the next sample at 10,000 miles since everything looked A-OK on the 5000 miles sample.

I got true the 6 page of this tread, still some question. Is the grade of the syntetic of importance, up here in Canada I get very freezing temp in winter and some not to hot in summer, will 5W50 do the trick because it is the only grade I seem to find. Also is there a way of knowing if there is an AMZOIL dealer around here, my cousin run a semi-trailer buisiness and run's AMZOIL but I did not see him for over a year so... I am ready to change to syntetic but dont want to switch brand because didn't find the right one at first.

my 90 t-bird needed supercharger oil changed every 30,000 miles my 92 tbird said from the factory , because of sythetic fluid NEVER NEEDS CHANGING . I PUT 200,000 ON THE 90 AND 450,000 ON THE 92 . I CHANGED OIL AND FILTER AT 22,000 KM , AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH EITHER . DID NOT USE ANY ! OIL BETWEEN CHANGES . KEEP CHANGING EVERY 3,000 , I OWN STOCK IN OIL COMPANIES , BUT REALLY WHY SUPPORT ME ! PLEASE SAVE YOUR MONEY , IF YOU HAVE A MAJOR FAILURE IT IS MOST PROBABLY DUE TO A DEFECT NOTHING TO DO WITH OIL CHANGES !






Originally posted by 95XLT
Ray,
i have only had my Explorer for 5,000 miles. i changed the oil right when I got it and the oil is darker, but not as far as being black. i think I may change it this weekend or next, depending if i have time. Thanks

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TravisN1@AOL.COM
1995 XLT 4x4

Everyone...I have 9,600 miles on my oil now. I am going to pull anohter sample at 10,000 miles and send it out. I should have the 400 miles on in a week or 2 and the restults another week or so after that. Check back soon for the results!

My wife bought her 94 XLT in 1999 at 91,000 kms. It now has 130,000 kms. When she bought the truck it had a small rear seal leak, front manifold gasket leak. We have used synthetic since she bought it, all the leaks have dried up. The oil will be changed every 5000-7000 kms. I have used Castrol 5-50, 10-30, 5-30. Mobil 1 15-50. Quaker State 4X4 10-30 mixed with Mobil 10-30. The oil filters I have used are Kralinator, Purolator, Ford Motorcraft, Fram. Synthetic will reduce the wear from the point that you use it. If you only change the oil filter every 15,000 miles. The oil also holds particles is suspension, reducing wear. The oil should be changed because you want the oil reducing the wear, but the particles left in the oil will do the opposite right behind the sythetic.

Well, the Royal Purple came back with Elevated nitration and low TBN so I was instructed to replace filter and oil. Thanks for all the help and thanks to AgExplorer for the test kits!

Is anyone else doing an oil study?

I plan on doing a 20k study in my truck with analysis at 5 k intervals.

Not really a study but I do send in most of my oil samples in for analysis. The last oil change of Mobil 1 had about 5K miles on it and I'm getting ready to mail another sample of Mobil 1 with 5K miles on it.

Would you please post your past results as well as the new onw when you get it?

Thanks.....

Hi! Here is my Oil analysis using Amsoil 0W-30 for over one year. The 0W-30 has a 35,000 mile or 1 year guarantee. If you do analysis they can back your oil longer. You must know that Amsoil is not effected by temperatures below 300 degrees and will not turn to sludge thus resists thermal oxidation. Also it's your filters job to remove soot and blow by materials. As long as your oil has the proper TBN it will not cause corrosion and will out last the "Marketeers" (That's my name for all the non 100% synthetics that take your money, keep you waisting resources and perpetuate this 3000 mile change nonsence.)
Amsoil is the only one that backs their own product. As a dealer you get all sorts of news about who is suing who, etc. And the fact is all the others watch Amsoil and try to keep up. Currently (quoted in Lubes and Greases) other brands are where Amsoil was in 1976. Did you know Mobil 1 doesn't even meet specs for CH-4?? About 1/2 of all the various weights from Amsoil does. There is so much to keep in mind, but truthfully by following Amsoils Service Recomendation your car at 100,000 miles will be (engine that is) just like it was when it was 10,000 miles old. When Quaker State comes out with a oil for "Higher Mileage Engines" this is a joke. If the owner used a oil of higher quality the vehicle would not have these "High Mileage Signs".

On the link below is my Mazda. the top three lines is the same oil. I used three filters (Amsoil SDF-13) If I could fit the By-pass filter in the engine compartment I would still be using that oil. I changed it out at 29,000 miles and it was 1.5 years old. The wear you see is slightly higher than normal because I raced tha car in 2 road races and did several autocrosses as well. One last point: If you ever blow a hose or something that causes your engine to overheat. Amsoil 4 out of 5 times will save your engine from serious damage. That dino will burn, smoke and cause parts to seize not to mention it cannot withstand the bearing pressures (Sheer Stability) that occur around the crank..

http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/analysis.htm

Ches
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Hi ! One quesiton please..

How do I change the oil in the power steering ? I`v never done it before and it`s starting to be a bit noisy. The level is ok but it has 50,000 mils so I guess it should be change.


thank you !

Today, I pulled an oil sample and changed the filter. This is the 7500 test.

I am running Amsoil 0w30.

Visually the oil was very dark and nasty looking.

Will post the results as soon as they arrive.

I received the results of my oil testing today.

To quote their summary:

Oil is suitablre for continued use
Change oil filter if not performed already ( I did it at 7500K )
Resample at next regular interval ( 15k )

Sccot NA
% Oxd 2.2
% Nox 24.3
TBN 6.1


Gary, please make comments and explain the significance of the data.

Al,

I had a copy of your report faxed to me and it looks excellent.

The low OXD and NOX indicate that your emissions systems are functioning properly and are helping the longevity of the oil.

The TBN is a measure of the oils ability to fight acid formation. I would have expected this to be slightly higher with the 4.0 SOHC but you are in excellent shape. It should stabilize barring any other problems.

Soot is only measured in diesel applications.

One thing that kind of stuck out was the viscosity. Again, you are OK but I would have thought it to be in the range of 11 to 12 with only 7500 miles on the oil. You may want to call Oil Analyzers and ask them to retest for viscosity. There's no charge for this. Every once in a while, they will misread something. It's happened to me once.

You're in great shape. All wear metals are exceptionally low and the oil is holding on to additive package very well. Keep on exploring.

This test further supports the myth of the 3k oil change.

I look foward to the 15k test.

Today is the day.... to change the filter ( and add a new quart ) and pull a sample for the 15k oil analysis.

I have been running Ansoil Series 2000 0W30 oil.

This is the second filter change and the second quart of oil added since the start of the test.

I dunno if this is good or bad, but in 2 other vehicles, I've gone over 16,000 before an oil change. This is, of course, with FULL synthetic Mobile 1 or Penzoil Synthetic, and either a Fram Double guard or another quality filter ;).

Never had a hint of problems from them, and that was all SO-CAL driving.

I've got a lil over 10K in the X now, and I HOPE they changed the fluid to synthetic at the dealer I got it from (cuz it looks GREAT and isn't low yet). I'll swing by Ford & get a filter tomorrow, and maybe change the tranny fluid as well if I can find some decent fluids at Walmart (can't help but shop there for cheap prices on name brand Synthetic oils).

This is a GREAT topic. I got alot of info out of it.

Got 18K out of my last Mobil 1 oil change. Had it analyzed, and the results were noral, but change was recommended. I had a 79 LTD that I got 300K miles out of before the body decided to quit living, and ran Castrol Dino in it. One time I went 30K between changes with just adding oil, mainly because I never had time to change the oil, or when I did, the weather wasnt cooperative, but when I removed the engine from the de###nt body to put into another car, I had to replace the pan with the correct one so I inspected the engine while I had it apart, and the results were the engine was almost like new, there was no noticable wear, the only thing that determined wear was the plastigauge showed ~.003 difference from when the bearings were initially installed. It was an engine I had blue printed myself.

Moral of the story, use good oil, good filters, they dont need to be synthetic, and you don't have to change it every 3000 miles like Jiffy lube would want you to with their marketing hype. In fact there was an article on MSN about saving money and the first thing on the list was the 3000 mile myth.

For what it's worth, I found an interesting little tidbit from BMW concerning the use of synthetic oils.

Due to the improvements in oil quality provided by synthetic oil, the interval to change engine oil has been increased from 1 to a maximum of 2 years.

Yes, you read right, 2 YEARS.

Peter

oil :
Amsoil's 0-30 series 2000.

Filtration :,
Amsoil's Remote "dual By-pass" setup using an Amsoil SDF-15,as well as a BP-100 filter.

I started out changing the sdf-15 every 5k and the BP-100 every 10k,I was told that was overkill and for the last 30k been changing the SDF-15 every 10k and the BP-100 every 15k.

I did get a flag that was highlighted on this past analysis.

the viscosity level rose a tad to 13.81, TBN is at 8.70.
nitr is at 34.0,and the oxid is at 14.0.

Iron was at..... 34
Chromium at..... 2
Lead was at..... 9
Copper was at 23
Aluminum at ......9
Silicon ..............11
Boron.................1
Sodium ..............8
Manesium.......390
Calcium.........2939
Phosph.........1258
Zinc...............1356
Molybdenum.....11

everything else was at 0

and no need to change it yet.
the very large BP-100 will be getting changed out next month !

this is absolute proof that we can go longer on the oil !
but keep in mind that superior filtration is a must.

Hey William,
Hi, This is Ches, the Amsoil Dealer.

I would not worry about the viscosity unless you get to a 16.

Since you change the full flow filters out more rapidly, I would not change the bypass until 25,000 or once a year. It is designed to hold a significant amount of contaminants and water. Even the BE-90 that is overkill!

Your silicon is very low. Are you running a stock paper air filter? And do you have the petcock vakve on your bypass or did you pull from the dipstick tube?

Since you have increased the sump value of your vehicle your TBN should stay above a 5 no matter what you do. If you ran a synthetic blend or a Group III your Viscosity would be around 8.3 at that mileage (20WT).

Kilroy,
If you had ran a good synthetic in the LTD (transmission and engine) you could expect it to reach well over 300K with the care you have given it. It's a known fact that synthetics reduce fuel usage and downtime enough to save Americans millions of dollars. The most common problems or solutions synthetics provide is lower emissions which reduce problems with EGR and PCV systems which eventually cut down sludge which is the main problem for engine failures.

P.S. At one of our Corvair meetings a new member showed up in a 69 Ford LTD, red with the trim kit, etc. Man, it was the coolest car I have seen in a long time. You don't see those anymore.
After watching Hawaii 5-O I think a 68-72 Ford 4-door sedan (or Merc) will be my next project in Black of course!

Bookem Danno


www.syntheticwarehouse.com
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I use on of the lightly oiled cone type filters {KKM}
for my intake.

is there a problem with the silicon ? ???
I have a petcock valve installed,I let about 5 ounces flow out into a waste container,then fill up the sample bottle.

this is all done when the engine is running and fully warmed up.

Originally posted by William Schumacher
I use on of the lightly oiled cone type filters {KKM}
for my intake.

is there a problem with the silicon ? ???


No problem at all. Usually I see them around a 22 which brings suspicion to a bad air filter. No, that looks fine to me. Now if you didn't maintain that filer you will see that value increase.

How many miles is the Oil Indicator Reminder set at ??

If you really want to read up more on this, here is a forum where all we talk about is oil:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

-Joe

I think If I were you I might just do some research and find some empirical data rather than sacrificing your engine in the name of experimentation that's already been completed. Anway, just my $.02.
I generally drive my Explorer 500 mi. a month; I have a Neon that I put most of my miles on. So here's another demension to look at this topic; TIME instead of mileage. I run Mobile 1 5w-30, but it takes about 6 months for me to accrue 3k. Does time have a factor in the oil change; obviously not as much as mileage, but I was wondering if I should be changing it every 3 months, or should I just wait 6 months to change it??? Thanks!

The only way to tell is to pull a sample and have it tested

Originally posted by 2NRFIXR
I think If I were you I might just do some research and find some empirical data rather than sacrificing your engine in the name of experimentation that's already been completed. Anway, just my $.02.
I generally drive my Explorer 500 mi. a month; I have a Neon that I put most of my miles on. So here's another demension to look at this topic; TIME instead of mileage. I run Mobile 1 5w-30, but it takes about 6 months for me to accrue 3k. Does time have a factor in the oil change; obviously not as much as mileage, but I was wondering if I should be changing it every 3 months, or should I just wait 6 months to change it??? Thanks!

Actually if you are in a cold climate time would have a greater detrimental value than mileage as the moisture buildup will take more toll on the alkalinity of the oil. Some people see the white foam on the underside of the oil fill cap.

Get a by-pass filter and forget about it. Our bypass filters hold up to one pint of water.
www.syntheticwarehouse.com

Where can you mount the Amsoil bypass system on a 99?

Here is one suggestion:http://www.amsoil.com/bypassfilters/mcmichael/index.htm

That is the single unit with the return going to the oil fill cap adapter. If it were mine I would mount against the frame rail.
Here are some examples:
http://www.amsoil.com/bypassfilters/index.htm