You guys seem patient enough to answer questions, so here goes. My truck is a '91 4-door 4x4.

I bought a used 23 ch Pace CB (older Japanese radio) for twenty bucks from a guy who repairs and reconditions used CBs. I saw him power it up and test it on the bench so I know it works. I needed a radio for use on a run I did over the Mojave Road. I hooked it to a brand new Wilson Lil' Wil antenna. I powered and grounded the CB through the cigarette lighter jack because I didn't have time to properly install it before the run.

Well, we got to the run, and guess what? Nobody can hear me once we are more than 1/4-1/2 mile apart. I can hear them, but only if they are within about 1/2 mile. I can hear lots of obnoxious truckers, though, with distorted echoplex voices and little devices that play 'The Good the Bad and the Ugly' theme over the radio. (gimme a break...) Anyway, as long as we were close the radio worked OK but not great. Once we were more than 1/2 mile away, no contact at all.

Where do I start to diagnose this? I used the coax as supplied from the Lil' Wil antenna and mounted it on the roof near the center of the truck. I did not trim the whip and I bottomed it fully in the base. I did notice that the radio worked noticeably better with the engine off but that's not much good when trying to negotiate a gnarly obstacle and you need to talk with your spotter. I noticed a lot of speaker noise when the engine runs (the fuel pump?), when I switched the truck in and out of 4wd, when I operated the power windows, etc. - in short, a lot of electrical interference.

Should I ditch this radio and get one of the newer ones?

Thanks for your help ! ! ! Pete

Hi Pete,
First of all your pretty much limited to line of site, so to speak, so your not going to get that much if your going between hills and valleys. On a good day I can get 5 miles. If I'm up on a hill, I can get much further. You have a short antenna to begin with, that doesn't help. The longer the antenna is the better you'll get out. I have a 62" whip for my wilson 1000, and a shorter 36" short load whip. I can tell the differance, A big differance. The shorter one is for 4wheeling. I don't expect to get any range. I just need to talk to the guy in front or back of me. when I want distance I use the 62" whip. Had I known what I know now, I wouldn't have baught a base loaded antenna. I would have baught a top loaded antenna. They are much more efficent, and get better range, and you know what? They are cheaper too! All my research has lead me to the same conclusion that the others, like Sandy and Scott said "the antenna is the most important part of your CB". Take your $20.00 CB and have it tweeked for max power(4watts), get a good antenna, and you'll do just fine. http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/smile.gif Ok I'll get off the soap box.

Do you have a SWR meter or one built into you CB?

Did you calibrate the antenna? If you did not calibrate the antenna to your radio, this is the main reason you are not getting out there. WARNING You can damage your radio by not properly tuning the antenna to the radio. Buy you sayng that you did not trim the whip, that you bottomed it out, I AM ASSUMING that you didn't tune the antenna. If this is wrong I'm sorry, it just sounds that way to me.
The second reason? your antenna it TOO SHORT!

What was your SWR reading at channels 12,1,23?

I also have my CB plugged into the Lighter socket, but don't have the ignition noise. I do hear the power windows when I roll them up or down, but no other noise from the Explorer.

Try going to the Battery itself, that should clean up alot of your noise.

Hope this helps out http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Happy Wheelin'
Ray L. http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/smile.gif
97 XLT 4X4 4.0L SOHC




[This message has been edited by Ray Lobato (edited 05-18-99).]

Ray,
Just thought I would put .02 in. Pete may be dealing with both (1) line of sight issues when he was four wheeling, and (2)the fact that it doesn't sound to me either that he calibrated / tuned his SWR.
However, a note on the Lil'Wil that Pete is talking about. I know it's a short one (I think 38" or something?, can't remember) but it is what I am using and for a lil' thing it is an amazingly efficient antenna. I also used one on another vehicle and if Pete sets everything up right, that antenna will do a pretty dang good job: by far the best I have found of anything similar to it.
And no, I don't work for Wilson http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/wink.gif

Pete, that is not to dispute Ray's point that if you want the absolute best you can get, then go for a good big one. I have problems parking and such with a five foot antenna sitting on top of my Explorer so I have to go with the shorter one and as shorter ones go, that Lil' Wil is a good one. Oh, and antenna PLACEMENT is important too since you want it sitting on TOP of your vehicle to use all of its body as a reflector for the antenna. I made the decision that a short one on top would do me better than a long one bolted to the bumper that only protruded a foot above the back of my vehicle. If I'm wrong here and a good topload that barely protrudes above the back of the roof line would do me better, you guys please correct me.

Gerald

Thanks very much for replying guys. I did not check SWR or calibrate anything - I didn't know it had to be done. The instructions in the Li'l Wil led me to believe the checking of the SWR was optional...

The line-of-sight issue isn't an issue because I was losing my compadres at 1/2 mile away, out on I-40, on straight road, so something else is going on. I will try the SWR thing first.

If I run a dedicated power line from the battery, does it need to be a shielded cable, and if so, does one end of the shield have to be grounded to the frame of the car in the same manner as one would ground a 3-conductor audio cable (XLR type)? Will this set up a ground loop? Where does the hot wire pass thru the firewall? Is 14ga big enough? And what size in-line fuse should I use?

Can I ground the radio directly to the nearest vehicle chassis metal?

What route should the coax take from the antenna back to the radio? Is this critical? It would be nice if I could stash it somewhere under the plastic interior trim. Also - has anyone tried a shield around the coax to see if this eliminates the fuel pump interference?

Thanks again ! ! ! - Pete

PS - You gotta tell me how you make them li'l smiley faces on your messages...

Yo Pete,
Tuning your antenna WILL improve your transmission and reception. Since it's an older radio, it should have a built in SWR meter. They are not as good or accurate, but will do the job. You can pick up a good SWR meter for around $20.00. You know, I bet if you took it to the guy that sold it to you, he would probably do it for free. Seeing as that you bought it from him.
Now, should you sheild the power cable?
Yes you can, but ground it to the radio . NOT THE CHASSIS! the radio should have a good ground to the chassis(use a VOM to check your grounds).
Use a 3amp fast blow fuse.

As far as the best route for the coax. anywhere I guess. I would steer clear of motors and such, and don't coil it up.

Gerald,
There are top loaded antennas that are from 3' to 7' that can be mounted on the top of your vehicle. what makes them so good is that they don't loose power like the base loaded antenna's. the coil is where the power is lost from heat, but because the top loaded coil is at the top most of the power is radiated out as signal and only a small portion (much smaller than the base loaded coil) is lost as heat. It is the reverse on the base loaded coil. all the power goes through the coil before is gets radiated as signal, therefore more power gets lost as heat. I'm in the same boat as you. I already bought a wilson 1000. I'm not going to throw $50.00 down the drain just to get another antenna. It's not a bad antenna, and I'm sure your lilWill is a good antenna also, BUT, if you wanted a better antenna. A top loaded antenna is much better, and a 9' 1/2 wave antenna is actually the best, but only if you mount it on top. if mounted on the bumper you are no better off than having a 5' top loaded antenna mounted on the top
The one thing I don't know is just how much power loss we are talking about between the to antennas.

Hope I haven't confused you guys too much http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/wink.gif

P.S. look here for the http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/smile.gif www.4x4central.com/ubb/faq.html#smilies (http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/faq.html#smilies)


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Happy Wheelin'
Ray L. http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/smile.gif
97 XLT 4X4 4.0L SOHC



[This message has been edited by Ray Lobato (edited 05-18-99).]

Hey Gerald,
You have one of those Cobra 75st, the one with all the stuff in the mic?
How's that working? The reason I am asking is the wife and I just bought a new Passat, and I will be using it a couple of days a week and want to put a CB in it. The only way I could do this would be to use the Cobra 75st like you use, since She only gave me under the seat and that was that http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/frown.gif
Your input would be much appreciated. http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/smile.gif


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Happy Wheelin'
Ray L. :)
97 XLT 4X4 4.0L SOHC

Ray,
I have been EXTREMELY pleased with this CB. It actually was more expensive than I planned and comes with stuff I may never use, but now that I have it I am very glad I got it. The performance is as good or better than any stock CB I have used before and the "Soundtracker" feature actually seems to work and is not just a gimmick. Even with just the Lil' Wil and not a big top load I have no trouble getting out several miles on the interstate.

I bought it for purely aesthetic reasons; I couldn't bring myself to bolt a big box anywhere onto my brand new '99 pretty dashboard. I removed the hanger bracket off the back of the mike and glued velcro there, then put a short black velcro strip just to the left of the steering wheel on the black section of the dash. The velcro strip is practically invisible against the black. I just stick the mike right there to the left of the steering wheel and it looks so normal there you would think it was a factory setup. If that Passat has a black section on the dashboard, you could do the same thing, remove the CB after you use it, and the short black velcro strip is unnoticeable on a black background -- sort of a do-it-yourself stealth setup.
If you are seriously considering getting one, I would advise that even at the price it is a good value, considering its performance and the fact it keeps you from trying to figure out where to install a box.
Let me know if you end up getting one.
Gerald

check out firestik.com for some great FAQs on antenna installation and efficiency. Another is:
http://www.pantherco.com/radiorepair/mobile_antenna_fundamentals.htm
some great info there.
I just installed a 102" whip on the quarter panel with about 6' above the roof. When I go in a parkade I can just pull the tip down to the drivers door on a clip. (After I got the nerve to drill the quarter panel It was actually a very liberating experience.)
J.B.

HEY RAY:
Did you ever figure out how to do that "stealth" installation on your wife's Passat; and if so, how did it go?
Gerald

Hi Gerald,
No I haven't yet. I sort of put it on the back burner for right now, because I got a real good deal on a Colt Python with a 6" barrel and spent the money on that instead of the Cobra 75st. And of course since my old gun case only holds 2 guns, I had to buy a new gun case, and holster, ammo, Hogue grips, range bag, I just didn't have enough money to get everything, so the CB lost out. I should have been born rich, instead of so Damn good looking. LOL!!! http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/wink.gif I will give you a holler when I do it, but it will be awhile.


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Happy Wheelin'
Ray L. :)
97 XLT 4X4 4.0L SOHC

Hey Ray - Glad to see you got your priorities straight! http://www.4x4central.com/ubb/wink.gif One's acquisition of a new fire stick should always supersede other toys/useful accoutrements. Get 'em while you still can...