http://www.boss302.com/oil.htm

it basically confirms at least to me that amsoil is not all that great

I read that article and I also have about 25 years of experience using Amsoil and I respectfully disagree with some of his statements. He is going (especially in the case of Amsoil) on his opinions (and at least he says so) and not on pure research.

Amsoil as a synthetic has a different formulation than the other synthetic oils - and especially different than Mobil 1 (which is a great oil, but it's not Amsoil). I don't think that he took that into consideration. Also, I have actually RUN Amsoil for long extended service intervals (with testing) and I have experienced NONE of the supposed issues that he argues against.

I have found that some of his conclusions match my own - especially with oil qualities. I have discussed that before on the board and you can do a search for oil and oil filters and find those discussions. In a word - Pennzoil sucks... Quaker State is right behind. Valvoline is about as good a dino oil as I have found over the years, and nothing even comes close to true synthetic - by lab test - and by real world use.

Remember, the author of that article is in the OIL CHANGING business... He makes money when people get their oil changed. That isn't a bad thing - but it is a fact that I believe has biased him against Amsoil.

Oh - and BTW, he never actually says that Amsoil is bad... He is just against their extended service interval.

i don't know i guess i just thought if it is as good as it is supposed to be you would be able to see it in stores

Might also be interested in searching for the Motor Oil Bible. It's a free PDF file thats pretty interesting too imo. I'll try to remember to post a link to it when i get home (at school now)

i don't know i guess i just thought if it is as good as it is supposed to be you would be able to see it in stores

Not everything you see in stores is the best stuff - perhaps they have the best marketing campaign - but they don't always have the best stuff...

Take Snap On for instance... Can't get that stuff in a store.

What about Pampered Chef cookware? Same deal.

You can buy Pennzoil and Fram junk in almost any store, including the grocery store - but that isn't a guarentee that it is good stuff - and I've rather experienced that it isn't.

don't mean to take over the thread, but how is penzoil bad? What makes valvoline better?

I run all different kinds of oil in my cars, just to see if I notice a differance, and I never do.

Here we go, thought some of you might enjoy reading some of this.
The Motor Oil Bible (http://www.synthetic-lubricants.com/mob-2-2-04.pdf)

don't mean to take over the thread, but how is penzoil bad? What makes valvoline better?

I run all different kinds of oil in my cars, just to see if I notice a differance, and I never do.

You may never "notice a difference" until it is too late...

I discussed my reasons here:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25635&highlight=Pennzoil

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114877

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115845

And here is a link to a filter study that I have also confirmed myself by doing similar...

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

The quote below is from the first thread I offered... Save you the time of looking through all the posts to find out what I said.

I used to work as a quality control technician at a major hydraulics firm and had acess to over 1 million dollars worth of oil testing equipment.

I decided to test a number of automotive oil brands for personal enrichment. Upside to the tests, synthetic is VERY good! Downside, some domestic brands are almost as bad as no oil at all!

Tests included: particulate contamination (how clean the oil was - huge factor in longivity) - Viscosity (is it really 10w30 and how does it change with temps) - Recirculating ball test (run a ball bearing against a shaft at 3000 rpm with an oil drip - measure at intervals for shaft wear).

In particular, both Pennziol and Quaker State oils were virtually worthless. Both fouled my Royco particle tester and both failed miserably in the recirculating ball test. (They cut the shaft in half after only several hours of running!)

Best domestics were Valvoline and Havoline (non-synthetic). The Valvoline in particular was almost as good as a synthetic on the recirculating ball test and was easly the best domestic natural oil.

Synthetics tested included Mobil 1 and Amzoil. Amzoil was better than Mobil 1, but both were better than any other oil tested (not a complete test, some new oils have hit the market since of which I have no info). The Amzoil did not even leave a mark on the shaft, which indicated to me their break in instructions were correct - ie, run standard oil for around 10,000 miles before changing over to synthetics. Valvoline left a shiny spot on the shaft, but could not be measured after a week of running. Other domestics wore groves in the shaft after days of runnig.

In doing mechanic work for 20+ years on the side, I have also noticed that the motors using Pennziol are usually full of crud, and I recently had to replace the crankshaft on a Dodge Dakota with less than 80,000 miles. Two bearings were completely gone, Owner swore by Pennzoil. Took the block to a local machinest to bore it and he told us the type of oil used in the motor. He said he sees it all the time.

In another incident, I started running Amsoil in a Chevette with 22,000 miles. I followed their standard 25,000 mile change with a filter change at 12,000 (add 1 qt to fill to caoacity). After 220,000 miles of this the car only used the one quart of oil per 25,000 miles from the change. I sold the car and it is still running. I don't know the current mileage.

One further story... I ran an F150 with a built 390 and 38's and had difficulty moving it off the spot on some of those -20 degree mornings in Wisconsin. I swtiched all the diffs, trans, and transfer case to synthetic and was able to drive away normally no matter what the temps.

All of this is anecdotal evidence, but I know where my money goes! I use synthetics all the way!

Note also what I said eariler in this tread about the results of Pennzoil users engines. I am not a shop, I just do some work on the side to suppliment my hobby (pays for parts) - and I've done 4 engines THIS PAST YEAR that all blew up prematurely using Pennzoil - a fact confirmed by my engine machinist (He says that most of the engines he gets that have some major oil-related failure are all Pennzoil or Quaker State users... and he does about 10 engines a day)

Here are a few other links that I have found that discuss Amsoil in some way.

http://www.thedieselstop.com/archives/ubbthreads/199497_1/forums.thedieselstop.com/archives/showflat.php-Cat=&Number=34728&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1.htm

http://www.thebestoil.com/index.php?page=filtration

http://www.elitesyntheticoil.com/faq.htm#design

http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/Feature%20European%20Synthetic%20Standards.htm

http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/lubrication%20concepts.htm

http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/tech_data.htm

And a quote from that companies customer testimonial page:
http://www.syntheticwarehouse.com/testimonials.htm

8/11/03 This was a customer I delivered product to in Minneapolis on my way home from the AMSOIL HQ. Ryan heard about AMSOIL through the Ford Explorer Forum where AMSOIL has really caught on as the oil of choice.

Ches-I just wanted to drop you a line and let you know how happy I am that I switched to Amsoil. After running an engine flush and putting in Amsoil 5W-30 in my 93 Explorer it runs quieter with the hood open than it ever did with the hood closed. I wouldn't have believed it if someone had told me, but the difference was EXTREMELY noticeable.

My brother noticed a big difference in his Grand Prix as well. So far I think I have him convinced, but I may want to get him an Oil Analysis when he swaps filters, just to prove the stuff lasts as long as it claims. Does Amsoil do Oil Analysis, or do you recommend someplace else to have it done?

Thanks Again!

Ryan
(Amsoil sells a analysis kit for $18.95 that includes shipping. The company that does the analysis currently is in Cleveland, OH)

After reading all that, is it too late to switch to synthetics? My x has 130,000 miles on it.

I switched my 92 at 195,000...

As long as the engine doesn't use a lot of oil (burn it) or leak a lot of oil, I would make the switch.

Basically what you are doing is halting the furthed degradation of the mechanical parts right where it is. The synthetic's ability to lubicate tends to slow down engine wear considerably. (BTW, that is also why I don't recommend synthetics as the "break in oil" for a new or freshly built engine. I personally run Valvoline for the first 5000 miles (2 oil changes on a new motor - the first at around 1000 miles and the second at 4000 - mostly becasuse of break in contamination) then switch over.)

Well, Pennzoil has Arnold Palmer in their TV ads, and he has a reliable, reassuring manner. So it's Pennzoil for me.

I trust my celebrity endorsers.

I agree, Valvoline IS good dino oil. I use AMSOIL in my truck (switched it over at 75,000 miles). In my Corvettes, I ran Valvoline for years. And the nationally-known Corvette restorer that rebuilt my 1980--he swears by Valvoline in those vehicles.

Well, Pennzoil has Arnold Palmer in their TV ads, and he has a reliable, reassuring manner. So it's Pennzoil for me.

I trust my celebrity endorsers.
LOL :thumbsup:

Glfredrick, would you say Penzoil brand oil is no good even as a full synthetic (which I use) or just their dino?

After reading all that, is it too late to switch to synthetics? My x has 130,000 miles on it.

Use whatever brand took you to 130,000 miles.

Pennzoil's "full synthetic" is not a "full synthetic." Neither is Castrol's, Valvoline's, Mobil 1's (certain weights), or most of the other "national brands."

They are modified dino oils - and likely better oils than their plain dino counterparts, but they are not true synthetics. (Castrol doesn't even have a refinery - they, like many oil sellers, buy oil on the spot market and put in their own additives - then sell it at a premium...)

I don't know about the new Pennzoil synthetic. I havn't tested it - nor have I had anyone running it to see how it works.

If it were me, I'd just go for the good stuff.

Mobil 1 is a proven oil.

So is Amsoil if you want to go up a step.

Other true synthetics like Red Line and Royal Purple also have their followers, but I also haven't tested them so I'll refrain from making a decision just to be fair.