My 94 lost its a4ld a few weeks back. From all the info I can find, it is tough to put one back in because to make it last, a major rebuilt would have to take place to make it stronger... Meanwhile, I found a 1984 Bronco II with the auto trans (a c-5 I believe) Will this puppy be a straight drop in??? I am hoping that I found a needle in a haystack if it will work...

Not quite, but almost a drop in. You have to move the crossmember and change driveshafts. Run a search its all been posted before. I did it in my old ranger.

I believe the 84 had the 2.8 engine. Your X has the 4.0. You can make the transmission fit...You can always make things fit!!!! but the 4.0 has more power and it will burn the tranny out sooner than you want it to!!
I would keep searching for an appropriate transmission for your year and model X. It will be worth it in the long run

Well, I have been searching hard and I still don't have definitive answers. (thanks for your answers!) I see these issues:
-Is the c-5 strong enough or do I need c-4 innards
-Do I need a new shifter or can the '94 ex column shift still work (No OD though)
-Anything else I need to know?

The C5 will bolt up to the 4.0 OHV no problem. It is way stronger than any A4LD. Inside it is basically a C4. Most of the parts will interchange. There are even a few tricks to use a C4 valve body w/shift kit, a stall converter, and a rachet shifter. They can be a full manual if you want them that strong. Run a search. Its all been posted over and over.

EDIT: The column shift wil not work...well....unless you are a pretty good engineer. I used the factory C5 floor shift on mine. However with the correct C4 valve body any aftermarket floor shift for the C4 will work. Its all been posted in the last few months. :thumbsup:

Big Dakota, the C5 is a 3 speed no overdirve automatic that has been used behind the 5.0L by Ford for years (its a version of the C4 with a different 60 degree V6 style bellhousing)

If you can live without overdrive this is the best route to go when replacing an automatic behid the OHV 4.0L IMO.

I checked out the Bronco II donor vehicle today. It is a 1984 with the code 'W' for trans. Is that a C-5 for sure? The Changes that would be needed to drop this in should be as follows:

-Move crossmember foreward a few inches
-Drive shafts shortened and lengthened
-Switch from a colum shift to the floor shift (Is this 100% neccessary?)

Can I just use the Bronco II transfer case also? If I do this, shouldn't I be able to utilize the floor mounted trans shifter?

Anything else that I have missed?? Thanks.

the BII T case is the same as the BW1354 you have, the only difference is the age and also the front output yoke uses a different style of front driveshaft (explorer is better)

Unless it is a manual T case then grab it :)

You will need the starter and flywheel as well I believe.
Also get all the linkage.

Yes that should be a C5 automatic, I did not look up the W code, but you can at:
therangerstation.com


I have not done this conversion but have researched it quite a bit, others who have done it would be a much better source for answers about the specific parts required.

Your A4LD column shifter can be made to work, although it depends on your fab skills (muight have to modify or make a new detent plate)

A friend of mine who put a 4r70W trans in his 93 explorer (5.0L conv.) kept his column shift, got a late model ranger column shift lever with the OD button in the tip, welded it to his shifter and wired up the button, then he modified the stock Explorer detent plate for the new PRND21 pattern (basically blocking off 1 and renaming from OD down) he made a new plastic piece to display the correct position for the needle, so anything is possible, afterall its just a cable shifter, just mounted to your column.

try this (http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1221640#post1221640)

If you change out your tranny to a c-5 will it effect the gas mileage?

Yes, it has no OD, so mileage will decrease a little. I have done the swap myself. I can honestly say mine was not much. I managed 17 with mine in these hills driving hard. The benefits far outweigh the mileage difference. This is a tough trans and the A4LD....well...is not.

Don't trust the codes at TRS (usually), however the "W" is a C5. I used the C5 floor shift and I had the same t-case to begin with. I was working with an 89 ranger, so I used the front driveshaft from the BII (no mods).

My advice is to grab everything when you get parts. You never know what you might need. I ended up with 2-C5s with all the shifters and everything. I sold some and have some still.

EDIT: As far as I know, all the old B IIs and the rangers in that era had the BW-1350 manual t-case. The 84 B II and my 89 ranger did. In fact I have another t-case too. LOL I think the 1354 came out in 90 (or so). I doubt its any better than yours.

Don't forget there will be little things to move/modify to get it to fit just right. I had to move my E-brake bracket (was in the way of the crossmember) and modify the kickdown rod. Just little things that slow you down. Yours will be completely different than anyone elses.

Oh and the big one. Its 21 years old at least.

Plan on rebuilding it right! No short cuts or you won't be a happy camper for long.

It is 21 years old but with 90k miles, should I still rebuild it or ???? I was going to let it be. On a side note, my a4ld is the dead puppy. Is there anything I should look for that might be a freak anomoly??? It just died. No slipping or anything. I took off the line to the radiator and there is great fluid pressure. When I dump it in drive, the rpms do drop a little bit. Is there something simple I may be looking over????

Yeah...whats the fluid look and smell like. Old diry and smells burnt? Its definately toasted. Drop the pan and look for burnt parts or metal shavings.

My C5 had fairly clean fluid in it when I bought it. However, it had been changed right before they parked it apparently. The B II was not wrecked althought it was in a salvage yard. I go the doors and a lot of other parts off it. Everything in the trans was fried though. A rebuild is cheap insurance with it being that old. You have no idea what may have been done to it.

Its up to you of course. Take a chance and get it bolted in and see. You decide. I would not put one in (lot of work) unles I knew for sure it was strong.

On a side note the C5 is very easy to build.

As a benefit, you can have a C5/C4 rebuilt for next to nothing. I spent $600 on my C4 buildup, and that was having a local race shop bulletproof it. $300 of that was torque converter. Had i not gone with custom stuff it would have been around $350-400 to get it built. You could rebuild a fleet of C4's for the cost of one rebuilt A4LD.

Weigh fuel mileage decrease with cost of installing a new A4LD every year. I think you will find you would have to burn a LOT of fuel to offset the cost in A4LD's. :D :p

Yeah... very true. My A4LD was rebuilt by ford when almost new (keep a count!). I rebuilt it once and it lasted for a good long while. Blew it again. I rebuilt it again and it lasted for a long time. Blew it again. Rebuilt a C5 (stock rebuild) and its still in there (driven daily by my brother).

Did you keep a count? A4LD rebuild 3 times. Have any idea how much that cost? The mileage was/is not much different at all. This is a work truck and was/is loaded a lot. OD was not used very often to begin with. Drive is a 1:1 ratio in both transmissions, so its almost the same (discounting the OD use occasionally).

This has me wondering. When mine 5R55E goes out (and it will) Would a C4/C5 bolt up? I have a spare in the back yard. Hmm.......:D

I'm really considering this, i could probably get a junkyard around here to pull me one for like $200 max. But i really need that overdrive occasionally. My 4.0 is my towing truck for my other cars, so i need a stronger tranny, but i also need to drive it daily or camping and in the winter so OD would be really nice. Isn't there like a Aftermarket OD or somthing i could use?

Yeah, you can buy a very expensive advanced adapter and use a chevy trans or go with a manual ford one.

yes, you can use a C5 behind the 4.0OHV..... I just did a C4 swap into my Explorer, which is basically the same tranny as a C5.... the link above is actually my swap. its can be done.
--Ryan

Well i want the full auto, but i want to have OD still.

Well i want the full auto, but i want to have OD still.

Then get ready to send AA a ton of money and add chevy parts. :D (see post #18)

Car Freak..where is that link to your c-4 swap??

Post #9. Although, the last time I visited the thread the trans was not working right.

Then get ready to send AA a ton of money and add chevy parts. :D (see post #18)

That's not really answering the question, i don't want a manual ford tranny or chevy tranny, i just wanted to know if you could add OD to a C-5.

That answers the question perfectly. The C5 is not OD and those are your options. Nothing else to be said.

Actually no, i don't know what you're thinking of, but for 2.5k you can get an overdrive unit that fit's the C-4 or the BW1253 ect.

http://www.gearvendors.com/ (http://)

not that it's the best value, but it might be worth it in the long run. Especially if you drive the piss out of your truck.

They will work on the C4 etc. However, the t-cases they fit are the full size ones. I don't know of anyone running these in a first gen X with a V6. If you have a V8 AWD then you already have a full size trans and they are OD units.

None of these came in a V6 explorer, yet these are all the ford t-cases they fit.

NP 203
NP-205
NP 208
NP 271/273
BW 1345
BW 1356
BW 1356
BW 1356
BW 4406
BW 4407

There are not any options that I know of for the stock t-case and OD from another vehicle. If you have enough money you can make anything fit. I say go for it, if you have money to burn. Just remember how long its going to take to recoup your expenses using OD with this kind of swap. BTW: What kind of mileage do you get now? 21 or even 25 maybe on the highway? I averaged 17 without OD and driving hard/loaded usually.

For a normal person on a normal buget its either manual, chevy, or C5/C4. hammer is considering not even rebuilding a 21 year old transmission. :eek: You can always have the A4LD rebuilt ($1500-2000) and hope it holds for a year or two.

EDIT: For your 91...remember your t-case is either a BW 1350 (late one) or the BW 1354. You listed another number in the post. I have never heard of that one. Hoping its a typo.

They will work on the C4 etc. However, the t-cases they fit are the full size ones. I don't know of anyone running these in a first gen X with a V6. If you have a V8 AWD then you already have a full size trans and they are OD units.

None of these came in a V6 explorer, yet these are all the ford t-cases they fit.

NP 203
NP-205
NP 208
NP 271/273
BW 1345
BW 1356
BW 1356
BW 1356
BW 4406
BW 4407

There are not any options that I know of for the stock t-case and OD from another vehicle. If you have enough money you can make anything fit. I say go for it, if you have money to burn. Just remember how long its going to take to recoup your expenses using OD with this kind of swap. BTW: What kind of mileage do you get now? 21 or even 25 maybe on the highway? I averaged 17 without OD and driving hard/loaded usually.

For a normal person on a normal buget its either manual, chevy, or C5/C4. hammer is considering not even rebuilding a 21 year old transmission. :eek: You can always have the A4LD rebuilt ($1500-2000) and hope it holds for a year or two.

EDIT: For your 91...remember your t-case is either a BW 1350 (late one) or the BW 1354. You listed another number in the post. I have never heard of that one. Hoping its a typo.


Yeah it was a typo, it was like `1am after a long day lol. Before i took it off the road for a complete top end overhaul it got like 15mpg. I have no idea how much it'll get after. But i do plan on driving the piss out of it so i'd really like to have some better gas mileage. that and i'mactually going to get a manual shift t-case from a junkyard so i could just get one that worked with that.

oh and why does that thread say


A C5 will explode behind a 4.0L, unless it is rebuilt with C4 parts.

is that true? Should i get a c-4 and swap the parts?

Post #9. Although, the last time I visited the thread the trans was not working right.

the tranny IS working, it just needs a new valve body, b/c its not shifting right, but that have NOTHING to do with the swap itself, the link that Rick put to my swap tells what you need to swap it and how to do it.

Terran: I can't answer that one completely. To my knowledge thay are almost identical inside and out. The difference I know about: Bell housing (bolts to V6-swappable), the valve body (swappable from mid 70s case fill C4), the tail shaft and tail housing (swappable to make C4 bolt to our t-cases). They are almost identical other than that. I do not have both rebuild books in front of me too see any others. maybe 410 can clear up that point.

The C5 behind my 2.9 was awesome. I could hit 65 in second gear without fear of hurting it. My A4LD wouldn't take that (even new). As far as I know, the 2.9 and the 4.0 OHV have very similar HP and torque ratings. Not like comparing the 2.9 to a 460 Big block. My humble opinion is for a daily driver it would hold up great. Mine does. I drove it hard for a long time and now my brother does (every day). If you have a built engine and really race it (my friend does) you should swap in a C4 valve body w/shift kit, a stall t-converter, and a rachet shifter. He did and is very pleased.


Carfreak: Cool. I thought there was some major problem at the last time I read it. Good deal. Swapping in a good valve body is easy to do.

It is a done deal. Bought the '84 Bronco II today (rollover) and will bring it home next week. The C-5 drop into my '94 explorer begins soon....

Awesome! Keep us posted as you go. :)

The 2.9 I had in my BII would not stand a chance against the 4.0 I have in my X-Sport if I would have pitted them against each other!!!

I agree on beefing up the C-5 with the guts of a C-4......If you cannot afford it...well...Next time...It all depends on how you drive and how severe you 4-wheel in it!! You can make it last as a pavement queen..You will at least have the conversion in place for the next tranny swap when the C-5 gets tired!!!

This Bronco II has the 2.8....how much HP does this have?? The OHV 4.0 has about 160 or so, correct? The c-5 shouldn't fare too badly (even without a rebuild. I thought it had 92k on it, it is really 82k) Hope it is all smooth sailing.

Here is a ballpark of horsepower for some of Fords V6 motors....

2.8 = 115 horsepower
2.9 = 140 horsepower
3.0 = 145 horsepower
4.0 = 160 horsepower

The 3.0 and 4.0 had a little more horsepower depending on the automatic/manual transmission, model of vehicle etc.!!!!

20 horse is not a lot of difference to that trans. Its behind a lot of 2.9s now. Its a lot stronger than the very weak A4LD ford put behind them. I am still wondering if the C5 will bolt up to the 4.0 SOHC. I have a spare. I suppose when I blow the 5R55E, I will post and ask someone if its the same block or bolt pattern. I doubt (in stock form) it would hold very well behind the 4.0 SOHC since its supposed to be in the neighborhood of 207 horse.

Well if i need the tail shaft and tail housing i suppose i should get the C-4 and the C-5 at the same time.

okay okay hold on guys.
The C5 is ALOT stronger then the A4LD. The C5 needs to be rebuilt with updated parts when put behind the 4.0L because:
age

Now you can bolt it up and run it for sure, personally I think the C5/4 is cheap enough to go through and replace the soft parts, etc before installing it, new torque converter as well. You could always use a bolt in working C5 just to get you going then rebuild another spare and swap them out.

The hot setup is a reverse manual valve body C4 with all the available upgrades, you can purchase a fully built c4 like this for under $1000 with core. This means you would do the shifting from 1-2-D, so a floor shifter is your best bet.

The c5 in stock form will handle the 265 ft lbs of torque the stock OHV 4.0L makes yes, but no way am I going to go through the trouble of bolting one up unless it has been rebuilt first, I mean its from an 84 BII that has sat for who knows how long after it was rolled with umpteen miles on it. You can rebuild a C4 yourself in the garage with only a few special tools, simple, strong, good trans.


T case and OD options, well I never got that far! hahaha

wait, the pushrod 4.0 makes 220ft-lbs of torque doesn't it?

nope the pushrod 4.0L makes 265 ft lbs of torque.

Hot damn, that makes me happy. Now only if i could get this tranny thing figured out so i can mod out this engine.

nope the pushrod 4.0L makes 265 ft lbs of torque.


HUH? id like to know where you got that information... a stock 4.0?

sorry got my numbers mixed up it is 220

sorry got my numbers mixed up it is 220

its that 5.0 you got there haha.

damnit, i was all excited.

dude dont worry about it, the pushrod 4.0L is an EXCELLENT engine, trust me I have a 5.0L V8 under my hood and the truck pulls the hills about the same as it did before, there are times when the V8 shines, but the mightly 4.0L is a workhorse engine with plenty of balls!

Hey all...got the Bronco II and just about have everything pulled on it. The c-5 looks nice.. I will try to post photos as to the drop in. Anyone interested in a bunch of Bronco II parts?? The 2.8 liter is really nice. Has 82,000 miles on it. Just broken in. Anyhow, now I begin the swap. Wish me luck!

Got the old a4ld out and have one more question before starting on the c-5 install... do I use the old torque converter from the c-5 as well?? Also, would you advise using the Bronco II transfer case or sticking with the Explorer electronic transfer case for ease of install/linkage. I know they both bolt up to the c-5 but the Bronco II has a nasty linkage setup.... Thanks!

Okay, found out the answers to my own questions... Anyone able to give me advice on the linkage setup post I put out there?? I have pictures at www.respecki.net under 'transmission swap'.

The plugs/wires are for the solenoids (sp?) for the t-converter lockup and OD.

C5 neutral safety switch and back up lights.

the other questions I cannot answer.

The big plug on the a4ld with the prongs sticking out is the neutral start switch & the backup switch together. But what is that little plug in to the left side almost down near the pan...

Solonoids. I can't spell that word. They are in the valve body. I thought thats the one you were asking about.

Anyone have some info on the neutral saftey switch on the 1984 c-5 trans and the 1994 explorer a4ld neutral safetly switch wiring? I want to splice the 1994 wiring into/onto the 1984 wiring going to the neutral safety switch. Can anybody identify the correct wires to cap, splice, and or leave alone?? Brian? Thanks.

Umm...sorry my brother took my A4LD and C5 books as well. The neutral safety switch and the back up lights both come out of the half round deal on the side of the C5.

Once wired, you have to adjust the neutral safety switch to neutral and not some gear.