I am working on a project right now and the guy before me decided to fit all the gas lines under the house with standard teflon tape. The white stuff not the yellow gas teflon tape. What kind of problems is this going to cause down the road. Should I rip out what he ran and use the proper tape/pipe dope? We are talking about 100ft of pipe in a crawl space about 18" high so tearing it all apart is not sounding like a fun job.

What pressure will it be running at? I have used the white tape before on stuff thats not real dangerous, grills etc. It will probably be fine but if your worried check for leaks every once in a while and put some sealant around the joints.

The only difference between the white, and yellow tape is the mil (thickness), and local (legal) codes. The yellow tape is thicker (and a lot more money), so you don't have to wrap it around as many times as the white tape. There is also a pink tape that is made. Don't worry about leaks. White teflon tape is primarily used on high pressure water lines (about 43 psi), compared to LP gas lines (about 1 psi). I don't know how much pressure your propane tank is, but it shouldn't be a problem.

The code check is 15lbs for 15 minutes. It sounds like it is the same material just thicker for the gas stuff. If it all holds pressure thet I will leave it. But knowing the guy that did the work I wouldnt be a bit suprised if it leaks. After all he did tile in a shower fixture without checking it for leaks :rolleyes:

At least it is job security. thats also not counting the waste line he has running up hill.

If you are really scared about this guy's work, there is another option that you could do without tearing everything apart? Do you have either a compressor, or a vacuum pump? Cap one side of the pipe, and disconnect the opposite side of the pipe. Either pressurize it, or vacuumize it, then check that line with a gauge on your compressor, or vacuum pump to see if it changes over a 10 minute time frame. If it is rock steady, and was able to maintain the same reading for at least 10 minutes, or more, then it is fine.

I plan on doing that. The contractor already told us everything was good to go on the gas line. Guess he forgot about the 3 ft of pipe missing between the house side and the line coming from the tank :rolleyes: This guy did take and smash a hole in the plastic conduit that feeds the electrical box at the house to run wires back out of and feed the pump for the well :eek: He used all black wires with no marking on them and has them lying on ground exposed under the house. Thus why I am concerned about leaks in the gas line. Dont get me started on his tile job, drywall patching job he did, or the total backassward way he plumbed the well so the booster pump would never turn off. I think a monkey from a zoo could have done better.

The only building code approved outdoor wiring that could be exposed is Romex UF-B cable. You can't leave regular 12 gauge wire exposed without some sort of metal piping as a jacket. Some areas allow gray plastic tubing instead of using aluminum pipe.

Yup. Hopefully the electician will be there tommorow to fix this guys mess of wiring. I also think he used the wrong size wire. It looks like it is 14 guage and it going about 250 feet. seems like a long run for 14 guage on a pump.

Did he install a circuit breaker panel? If so, check if you have any circuit breakers higher than 20 amps besides the main breaker. 10 gauge 220 A/C lines could go higher, around 25-30 amp double breakers. If he put in these breakers on any other lines, then remove them, since they will not trip. Bedrooms now are required to use arc fault breakers, and outdoor well pumps GFCI breakers.

Its a mobile home so he didnt install the whole panel. However he did add the one for the well booster pump. It is a 15 amp breaker but cant remember if it is a GFCI one or not. I doubt it is though. I was talking with the owner today and he said the general contractor tried to talk him into putting a 125 amp main box in at the road to feed the house, two pumps for a well, as well as a future ham radio shed and future 3+ car garage filled with wood and metal working tools. Pretty much everything the guy touched was done wrong and we are haveing to go back through and fix. Maybe I will try and get a digital camera and take a few pictures of some of these things he did.

You could see if the circuit breaker is a GFCI just by looking at it. They have a button on them that says "test". The construction industry, just like the automotive industry has its share of bad mechanics. A lot of the time people ask me to repair somebody else's sloppy work, then expect a guarantee that it will never have to be repaired again. Before you have somebody do work for you, try to find out as much as possible about them, or see something that they have already done. A recommendation from a satisfied customer (not always a friend of the contractor) is helpful. Some guys take huge deposits, do a little sloppy work, then never come back to finish (or even answer telephone messages). Some contractors show you a photo album of completed construction jobs that look like something out of a magazine. Don't always believe what they are showing you. These fly by night guys could very easily just drive around the neighborhood, and take a few before, and after pictures of beautiful houses. It doesn't necessarily mean that these guys actually did that kind of work. They are just trying to build up your confidence in them, and take a deposit that is beneficial for them. I'm not implying that they are all bad low life's. Some bad guys just ruin this business for everybody.

Here is a picture of a GFCI circuit breaker:
http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/eplus/360263_3.jpg

By the way, I should have mentioned previously that if you are going to run gas lines, you should use the brown, blue, gray, or white (much more expensive version that is seldomly used on gas lines) pipe dope compound. Hercules brand manufactures all of these pipe dopes in metal, and plastic containers with an applicator brush connected to the inside of the cap. Those colored teflon tapes actually have a dye added to them just to give it that color. It is actually white before this. Dupont is the manufacturer of PTFE (teflon).

I havent look at the box enough to know really what he put in there. I have a good feeling though that he didnt put a GFCI in though based purely on that they cost more then a regular one. The lady I am working for had looked at 7 houses that this guy had setup and said they had seemed to be done well. They were also recommended by the company that built the mobile home. Guess I need to get around to getting my contractors licence and start setting up these houses. They arent that hard I just dont understand how you can screw them up so bad.

Could you get any money back from that guy, or at least get him back to correct some of his mistakes? It might also be a good idea to let those people that recommended him know what happened so that they don't recommend him to another person, and mess them up.

The last thing you have to worry about is the pressure capacity of the teflon tape... I used it in the hydraulics industry to seal up 5000 PSI fittings and it was my sealant of choice if I wanted to remove something once it was sealed. If a permanent sealer was desired, I moved to one of the hard-setting liquid versions. For gas piping though, I commonly use the teflon paste made for that application.

Not my money he took. Im not sure what legal matters the lady will persue to try and get some of her money back. I usually use the teflon paste myself. I like it better then the tape especaally when laying in an 18" high crawlspace trying to put pipes together. I wasnt so much concerned about teh presure but more of the makeup of the tape. I did pick up a can of teflon paste that was good for water and natural gas lines but not for propane. Didnt realioze that till I had already crawled 60 feet on my stomach to start working on the pipes.

Why is it no good for propane? Does it specifically say that on the can? I was just a little confused about this job. Since that guy left, the lady now hired you to do the plumbing while she also hired an electrician to do the electrical work?

Dont know why its no good for propane? Right on the can it says good for water lines hot and cold, natural gas, and a few other things. Then right after that it says not for use for propane. Confused me to when I saw it.

I am suppose to be working on another job she as doing overseeing it. However the last week I have been working on this job trying to get it finaled. Now she is upset cause nothing is going on at the job I was working on. Ive only been trying to get the electrition she hired for it out there for 3 weeks to finish up his work so we can get the insulation in and start on some decks. She wont give anyone control of the job and everything has to go through her. However when I call when I need something answered or resolved, it doesnt happen till a week later when it is now a major problem. I cant wait till the inspector comes out to inspect some block walls we need to build and the plans call for it to be both block and poured in place on the same page. I said it was going to be a problem a month ago and she said it is fine. So now when the inspector fails us cause the plans are screwed up and we have to go back to the enginner and loose another week she wont understand it. That job offer I have in Boise Idaho is sounding better and better.

Also today we found that they didnt plumb one of the bathtubs into the waste line. You pull the drain out and you look strait into the crawl space :rolleyes: Now I get to fix that next time I am out there. I also have to fix some of the piers that the guy left out under the house. Then there are seems on the roof that he left open.

I feel sorry for you. I don't take on big jobs, and try to stay away from jobs that look like somebody walked out in the middle for no apparent reason. Whenever I attempted to complete somebody's work, I always ran into problems either with the owner who hired me, or because I just kept finding new stuff that had to be done, and the owner wasn't flexible. Some people are very demanding, and don't care how the job gets done. That's why you see so many sloppy contracting jobs. Their goal is to make as much money as possible before the owner runs out of money.

So what happened with those gas lines? Did you try to pressurize them to see if they were leaking? Were they good, or did you have to redo them?

They held.

That was probably the only thing that guy installed that you didn't have to redo.

I was curious about why you shouldn't use white Teflon on gas lines. Found this:

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/plumbing/gas/move/pipe.htm

Only use pipe, connectors and thread compound approved for gas piping.
Regular Teflon (or TFE) tape is forbidden on gas pipe connections, because small pieces of tape can get shredded during assembly, break off, and flow downstream to block a gas valve. There is a special Teflon tape available for gas piping, but I prefer the liquid compound.

Found a similar explanation here (http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Propane) as well.

The tape that is approved on gas lines is a little thicker (higher mil #). They are a different color so that you don't get them mixed up with regular teflon tape.

Gas teflon=yellow, i also prefer pipe dope. Those little pieces of tape can cause lots of problems, especially with electronic furnace and stove valves.

Why wouldn't the yellow tape cause problems? What is the pink tape used on?

I haven't used the yellow tape for awhile, but it seemed to me that it wasn't just thicker, but also had kind of an oily feel to it as well.

I usually use the white Teflon tape on water connections at home and on compressed air piping at work. I don't mess with the gas connections at home. But next time I need to, I will probably use the pipe dope.

I like pipe dope much better then teflon tape. That is until you get into the 1 1/2" and larger pipes. Then I prefer the teflon tape.

Gas teflon=yellow, i also prefer pipe dope. Those little pieces of tape can cause lots of problems, especially with electronic furnace and stove valves.

Isn't that PTFE tape?...I have a roll in my tool box and have no idea where it came from but I eventually found some teflon tape I needed for the fittings on my C02 tank.

http://www.aathread.com/threadsealtapes.html has some useful information on the various kinds of teflon tapes. This is what they say:
WHITE PTFE THREAD SEAL TAPE
For all industrial applications. Made from 100% virgin PTFE. No pigments, no additives. May be used on all applications including water, oil, chemical, medical, and food processing where non-contamination standards are high. Exceeds MIL Spec T-27730A. Temperature range from -450F to +550F. Available in a variety of sizes and densities.
YELLOW GAS LINE PTFE THREAD SEAL TAPE
Designed for gas lines of all types...natural gas, propane, and butane lines. Meets gas company standards worldwide. Seals threads easily and quickly with confidence. Exceeds MIL Spec T-27730A. Temperature range from -450F to +550F. Available in a variety of sizes.
PINK PLUMBERS PTFE THREAD SEAL TAPE
For plumbers, and pipe fitters. Color coded pink to signify that it is heavier than standard white thread seal tapes. Ensures leak free joints. Exceeds MIL Spec T-27730A. Temperature range from -450F to +550F. Available in a variety of sizes.
GRAY STAINLESS STEEL PTFE THREAD SEAL TAPE
This tape has nickle pigment color added for use on all stainless steel fittings. Prevents galling, seizing, and corrosion. This is a tape for coarse stainless steel threads. Exceeds MIL Spec T-27730A. Temperature range from -450F to +550F. Available in a variety of sizes.
GREEN OXYGEN PTFE THREAD SEAL TAPE
Color coded green for oxygen applications. This grease free tape is great for all of your oxygen lines. Exceeds MIL Spec T-27730A. Temperature range from -450F to +550F. Available in a variety of sizes.
http://www.aathread.com/images/250_Usaptfe.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_seal_tape has another explaination about teflon tape:
Thread seal tape –commonly known as Teflon tape or plumber's tape- is a polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) film cut to specified widths for use in sealing pipe threads. The tape is wrapped around the exposed threads of a pipe, and creates an air, and watertight seal when threaded into a joint. Thread seal tape is most commonly a white film (the natural color of PTFE) and is used in plumbing applications, but it is also available in various colors. While pigmented thread seal tape is not materially different from the natural white tape it is often used to correspond to color coded pipelines (yellow for natural gas, green for oxygen, etc.).

There are two standards for determining the quality of any PTFE tape. MIL-T-27730A (an obsolete military specification still commonly used in industry) requires a minimum thickness of 3 mils (three-thousandths of an inch). A majority of the thread seal tape supplied to the US is produced internationally and does not meet the MIL-T-27730A requirement, despite being marked as such. The second standard, A-A-58092, is a commercial grade which maintains the thickness requirement of MIL-T-27730A and adds a minimum density of 1.2 g/cc. US domestic producers of thread seal tape, led by firms such as Taega Technologies, manufacture products which meet or exceed the quality standards of A-A-58092. These high quality products are used commercially in high pressure systems, where seal reliability is critical, or in joints with coarse threads.