Was out hunting this morning in a very remote place and happened to notice this round marker drilled into solid rock along side a stream. It was about 3" in diameter and looked to be made of brass. It was flush with the rocks surface. On it was inscribed U.S.E.D. Station and then the number 570. Any ideas what this is.

I'm guessing United States Engineering Department.. maybe the forerunner for the Army core of Engineers

The opposite of N.E.W. ???

I'm guessing United States Engineering Department.. maybe the forerunner for the Army core of Engineers

I just went to the Corp of Engineers website. They have always went by that name... I can't find any reference to U.S.E.D.

The plot thickens:D

The opposite of N.E.W. ???

Got to admitt that went right over my head for a moment. LOL

This property that I hunt on was given to this family by the King of England and has not changed hands since. Had to wipe the moss off it to read it. It's up against a sheer rock cliff. The only way I found it was that I had to wade the stream which was low enough to use hip waders to get a deer we shot that fell down the cliff. Most of the time this marker would be under water also.
I asked one of the guys that live there and they have no idea what it is.

Might just have to snap a pic and post it. I'll be in that same area tomorrow and now would a good time being that the stream is low.

Hmm..I found this.. http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/eesc/design/projectdev/PlansPrepDivisions/Appendix%204.pdf

Interesting... The Corps site didn't make mention of that, at least not on their history page.

The knowledge on this site is incredible.

Wonder when it changed names. The Army corps of En. is responcible for inland navagable waterways. But this is a small stream about 30 feet wide. I take my kayak on it.

According to what I was reading they have been the "Army Corp of Engineers" since the American Revolution.

My Dad use to work for the Department of Forestry, ill ask him when he gets home. Ive seen these in the woods before and i believe they were used for surveying back when they were mapping national forests.

well dua, obviously the rock has been used and tagged as such :)
Just because the stream is small now doesnt mean it was always! At one time it could have been "Navagable"

Maybe this is part of the davinci code? maybe there is teasure under that them there rock? Try pressing in on it and see if it turns :)
If that fails you could always shoot at it

410 you've read my mind again. It's another Oak Island thing.

The knowledge on this site is incredible.

Wonder when it changed names. The Army corps of En. is responcible for inland navagable waterways. But this is a small stream about 30 feet wide. I take my kayak on it.

As I pull up my land use outline... :)

Long story short -- ACE is responsible for "navigable waters", defined as "waters of the United States." From a relatively recent case, the phrase “the waters of the United States” includes only those relatively permanent, standing or continuously flowing bodies of water “forming geographic features” that are described in ordinary parlance as “streams,” “oceans, rivers and lakes,” and seasonal rivers, and does not include channels through which water flows intermittently or ephemerally, or channels that periodically provide drainage for rainfall. Tributaries with a continuous surface continuous surface connection to bodies that are “waters of the United States” in their own right, so that there is no clear demarcation between the two, are “adjacent” to such waters and covered by the [Clean Water] Act. In other words, if it regularly flows into "navigable waters," even if it takes two or three tributaries, ACE likely has jurisdiction over it.

The ACE had gotten into a little trouble with the courts when they extended their jurisdiction to everything but essentially puddles when you wash your car in Arizona. The courts have since pulled them back, but their jurisdiction is still quite expansive.

I have never seen one say "USED", but I see "USGS" all of the time..

http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?Acronym=used&Find=find&string=exact

http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?Acronym=used&Find=find&string=exact

whatever it stands for, it's a pretty cool find. Put it up on ebay and see what ya get :cool:

whatever it stands for, it's a pretty cool find. Put it up on ebay and see what ya get :cool:

Never thought about that.
I have no idea how it is connected to that rock. I'ts about 3 inches in dia. and flush with rock. If I remember it has a little flange that sticks out. Maybe some kind of pry bar would work. Going to snap pics this week of it in rock and hopefully out of rock. Would make a neat desk ornament for someone in civil engineering or Army Corps of En.
Seems to made of copper or brass. No rust at all on it.
It's located on a stream called Back creek. I heard that this stream that flows along side of North mountain is one on the oldest geographical streams in the country.

go upstream and see if you find U.S.E.D. 571? maybe a mile marker?

Some sort of United States Engineering Department tagging or grafitti :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/honda2nr4life/IMG_3378.jpg

Thanks for solving this for me guys. Great job. That small reversed shaped cone stamped in the middle is for a plumb bob to hang over I suspect. Not bad shape for over 100 years old.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/honda2nr4life/IMG_3379.jpg

That marker is in the bottom of pic. Usually that maker would be under water. To the right is the steep bank that goes up about 70 some feet.

Can you move it?

I would snag it and put it outside my house :D

No I cannot. I tried using a small pry bar but to no use. I wonder if they bored a hole, filled with cement and set the marker down into it? All they would need would be a small bag of cement that they could have easily brought with them?
Big hammer and chisel maybe?
Be interesting to know just how many numbered markers there are. This would be 1 of 570 at least.

I'd try sending some e-mails... ASGS for starts would be the best place IMHO. It definately looks like a survey marker of some sort.

I sent an e-mail to a buddy of mine that is a civil engineer with the state of Ohio... maybe he has a clue.

-Joe

edit: Maybe a predecessor to the US EPA? US Environmental Department or something like that?

The only references to USED I've been able to find tie it to the Us Department of Education. Maybe there was a study done by a local state-run university doing some type of environmental research or something? Definately an interesting find for sure!

second edit:

Solid hit!!!

http://www.kitefarm.com/oregontrailmercantile/id241.htm

Gotta go with it being a surveyor's mark for the US Engineering Department....

And map info, about halfway down the page:

http://www.alamedainfo.com/Alameda_1942.htm

This one calls it the US Engineering Division of the US Army...

http://members.tripod.com/~kosloff/jean/book.htm

Kind of sounds like the predecessors to the Army Core of Engineers....


This one's definately got me intrigued. Please let us know if you find anything else out!

-Joe

Interesting info... wonder if it could be related? Found this in the brief history right on the USACE web site.

The work was important. At first a Board of Internal Improvements, headed by an engineer officer, planned surveys and the development of canals, roads, and railroads. The board, the Engineer Department, and the War Department, agreed that national defense and inland transportation were complementary and interdependent. This idea governed earliest activities. In some cases various modes of transportation were considered in relationship to each other, thus, an 1826 investigation considered whether it was practical to unite the Kanawha River with the James and Roanoke rivers by canals, railroads, or both. By the mid 1830s, however, local political considerations outweighed any overall plan in determining which projects received attention.



I wonder if the stream you found this marker near was one of the areas surveyed for the proposed link? That would make sense....

edit:
A little more info.... don't know exactly where this marker was sighted, so maybe this fits too:

Congress expanded the Army engineers' workload in 1826. New legislation, authorized the president to have river surveys made to clean out and deepen selected waterways and to make various other river and harbor improvements. Although the 1824 act to improve the Mississippi and Ohio rivers is often called the first rivers and harbors legislation, the 1826 act was the first to combine authorizations for both surveys and projects, thereby establishing a pattern that continues to the present day.



Could that be one of the tributaries that drains into any of the afore-mentioned rivers?

-Joe

Thanks for researching so well. Starting to make sense now. And yes this stream meanders for about 2 miles confluencing with the Potomac river above Williamsport Md. Also a few miles north of Anttediam creek which is known as the bloodiest one day battle in US history. 20,000 some casualties in one day.
Just for your info. That state park is allmost the same as the days of that battle. At my house located at Falling waters is where 200,000 Confederates came across the Potomac. Some called it the "The trail of tears" The wagons carring the wounded from Gettysburg was 17 miles long. People have found many Civil War stuff around my property. This was also the area that General Jackson first went on the offensive against the Union. It was called the Battle of Falling waters. OK I'm done.

Here is another example similar to the one you found. However, this one is label U.S. Engineering "Department". (U.S.E.D.)?

U.S. Engineering Dept Marker (http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/ab625e76-50b3-493b-9d6f-e6f985fa1bf5.jpg)

/Edit/ Oh yeah, you may want to check the lawbooks. I think you can be fined and even jailed for damaging or removing one of those things. /end edit/

Here is another example similar to the one you found. However, this one is label U.S. Engineering "Deparmtent". (U.S.E.D.)?

U.S. Engineering Dept Marker (http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/ab625e76-50b3-493b-9d6f-e6f985fa1bf5.jpg)

/Edit/ Oh yeah, you may want to check the lawbooks. I think you can be fined and even jailed for damaging or removing one of those things. /end edit/


That's an interesting pic. Ya I was wondering about the legitamcy thing. But I would think that any info that marker had would be superceded by all the new Hi tech surveying gadgets that are used now. Other then some kind of historical thing, I think the marker would be completly useless. But there could be somekind of law on the books.

I would be neat to know it the records of all the markers are still on file. Be kinda neat to go around finding these things. Like the old treasure hunt games. I really am glad just to post a pic and know where it is actually.

Who would you contact to find out if there is some law about removing these things even if they are on private property.

We need pics !!!!!!

We need pics !!!!!!

Scroll back to my pic

I rec'd this reply from my CE buddy:

That would be a survey marker or it could be a benchmark. Not sure if the "570" is the elevation or reference number for the marker. Usually the elevation runs out to 3 decimal places, but sometimes they are only marked with the first 3 digits. I personally have never seen one stamped "U.S.E.D." I've seen a lot with USGS or municipality (City, County, State) on them. They have a square shaft under the surface that holds them in place in concrete. The bottom of the shaft is wider than the top - to prevent it from getting pulled out. If someone is caught vandalizing, stealing, etc. them, they would be fined. They are very difficult to remove and for good reason.

I hadn't thought about it being an elevation marking... I wonder what a GPS says about the elevation above sea level? Wonder if it's anywhere in the ballpark of 570 ft above sea level (or some other cartographic datum point)?

-Joe

Here are a few sites I found related to survey benchmarks.

Geocaching game (http://www.geocaching.com/mark/)

National Geodetic Survey (NGS) Homepage (http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/)

National Geodetic Survey Database Search (http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/datasheet.prl)

Page with various good links (http://www.unm.edu/~creelbm/pages/agencies.html)

I rec'd this reply from my CE buddy:



I hadn't thought about it being an elevation marking... I wonder what a GPS says about the elevation above sea level? Wonder if it's anywhere in the ballpark of 570 ft above sea level (or some other cartographic datum point)?

-Joe

The nearest town downstream a couple of miles is Williamsport Md. It is 470 abvoe sea level. Hmm sounds like 570 with is located north of that town and along the North slope of North mountain might just be an elevation.
The caper is close to being solved.
Still like to know if It's legal to remove since there is no USED anymore. I can easily see where one of those benchmarks by the GS would be illegal. It's not like it's in a place where one could go look at it. But will not do anything to remove unless it's OK

Here are a few sites I found related to survey benchmarks.

Geocaching game (http://www.geocaching.com/mark/)

National Geodetic Survey (NGS) Homepage (http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/)

National Geodetic Survey Database Search (http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/datasheet.prl)

Page with various good links (http://www.unm.edu/~creelbm/pages/agencies.html)

Hey that's cool about logging these things. I'll check into logging this thing. Maybe this one has been logged before? Seems that the USED marking is more rare.

In fact did not see one pic of one.

Here's one!

U.S.E.D. Station 1330 (http://img.geocaching.com/benchmark/lg/7582_100.jpg)

In the small world category, this one is located here in DC. However, last time I checked Falling Waters WV is higher than DC. So I don't think the number has anything to do with elevation. It is worth noting that both DC and Falling Waters are on the Potomac river (This marker is down by the river). Also the pictured marker is labeled as a "U.S. Engineer Department [Type III]" marker.

Here's one!

U.S.E.D. Station 1330 (http://img.geocaching.com/benchmark/lg/7582_100.jpg)

In the small world category, this one is located here in DC. However, last time I checked Falling Waters WV is higher than DC. So I don't think the number has anything to do with elevation. It is worth noting that both DC and Falling Waters are on the Potomac river (This marker is down by the river). Also the pictured markered is labeled as a "U.S. Engineer Department [Type III]" marker.

Way to go! Well that blows the elevation theory out the window. I wonder if these USED markers have GPS points like the Geodetic survey markers have?

Just wondering, where is that one located in DC. Grew up all around that area.

Just added. I can see where this could get addicting try to find these things. Kinda like connect the dot game. But on a map

Way to go! Well that blows the elevation theory out the window. I wonder if these USED markers have GPS points like the Geodetic survey markers have?

Just wondering, where is that one located in DC. Grew up all around that area.

Just added. I can see where this could get addicting try to find these things. Kinda like connect the dot game. But on a map


I wouldn't necessarily discount the DC marker as an elevation marker... I mean, unless it's RIGHT at the water line, it could still be a marker... it just depends on what they used as the datum. That could be 133.0 as technology got better, maybe they started marking 10ths of a foot or so... I do suspect it's a marker number for a particular division though.

It couldn't hurt to call the local municipality, or maybe a local surveying company. A quick phone call may shed some light on it....

-Joe

Just wondering, where is that one located in DC. Grew up all around that area.


Here is the link that shows the marker near the river's edge across from the Tidal Basin.

Geocaching website for USED Station 1330 marker (HV4525) (http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=HV4525)

Here is the NGS datasheet for the marker.

Datasheet for HV4525 (http://www.geocaching.com/mark/datasheet.aspx?PID=HV4525)

One thing that caught my eye was the text "TIDAL USE 1932". I'm guessing these markers were used somehow to measure aspects of the Potomac watershed back in 1932. That makes the markers about 75 years old. Of course the marker could be much older and just adopted and used for tidal measurements in 1932.

The Station 1330 marker is included in the NGS database for the Distric of Columbia, under the designation "USED 1330". There aren't any markers for WV, VA, or MD in the NGS database with the word "USED" anywhere in the designation. I don't know why 1330 made it in and the others are missing. One explaination could be that the NGS database used a different designation for these markers in WV, VA, and MD. I just don't know. (And no, I haven't been able to sleep since reading this thread.)