So I just came back from Costco an I was checking out some Bridgestone Duellers. I have some problems w/ my BFGs(see previous post). The guy working the counter told me that Costco tire shops would not install LT rated tires (6 ply) on Explorers only passenger tires (4 ply). What is this about?

Rico

Sounds lame to me.

Rico,
I would have spoken to the Manager. I have never heard of a retailer refusing to install a truck type tire on a truck. I think you ran into a counter person who has very little knowledge of an Xplorer. It is a truck, not a glorified station wagon!!!!! I cannot stand to see this written in articles by the journalist, they should stick to writing articles that they have knowledge of or change careers. The Xplorer is a Truck!!!!

That is something that strikes a nerve in me can you tell,

Alan
98 Xplorer

Alan I can't agree with you more. I don't what the deal is there. I don't know if someone somewhere told these people not to install LT tires and only Passenger tires. Is this nation wide or what? I am just going to go somewhere else tomorrow. So I get in the dirt about once a month on some fire roads. My suspension is not modified (94xt 4x4)- any suggestions on tires. My BFG 31x10.5xr15 developed bulges between the tread- and there is heck of a lot of tread left on three out of the 4 tires. This disturbs me- I am beginnng to question the quality of the BFG brand as well.

Open to suggestions
Rico

Rico,

I have spent the last week trying to get my Firestones replaced. I also had two dealers strongly discourage me from the BFG T/A KO's. Same reason: Explorer can't handle the 6 ply tread, they will vibrate and nothing the dealer can do about it, LT tires too rough, etc. I told them I wanted to do off-roading and they suggest Michelin M/S tires?! Since I don't have a lot of tires to choose from in my size (255/70R16), I finally decided to get something else (Big O Big Foot ATs). Maybe when the truck is older I'll get bold and go for the BFG's. I've heard nothing but good things about them here and on other sites. Good Luck.

P.S. I have 4 Wilderness ATs for sale (cheap!). Only 5K miles on them.

Rico
Costco has some "bogus" information, supposedly from Ford, that truck tires are not to be put on Ford Explorers. I ran into this when I wanted to get Costco to install Michelin LTX-MS tires (these are not truck tires) on my 91 Explorer a year ago, and Costco said that Ford stuff said no. Ford or someone was confused and thought the LTX-MS Michelins were the truck tires. I eventually tracked down the correct info, showed it to Costco, and got the Michelin LTX M/S installed on two wheels. Now that information is coming out about Ford explorer problems with the suspensions and Ford specifying tire pressures of 26 psig so as to reduce risk of rollovers, this Costco refusal to put the 6 ply truck tires on the Ford Explorers probably has to do with liability issues (perhaps something like Ford telling Costco not to install certain tires and saying that if they do so, Costco is liable, not Ford). By the way, the Costco guys I was talking to said they were installing light truck tires (6 ply) on Ford Explorers (this was a year ago). The situation is confusing. And Ford appears to be more interested in covering their butt than in getting out true and accurate information! But that is typical mode of operation in large corporations and is the result of their legal advice. And corporate attorneys carry a lot of weight in these type of matters. Mike in Seattle, 91 XLT 4x4

Originally posted by socalexplorer
Alan I can't agree with you more. I don't what the deal is there. I don't know if someone somewhere told these people not to install LT tires and only Passenger tires. Is this nation wide or what? I am just going to go somewhere else tomorrow. So I get in the dirt about once a month on some fire roads. My suspension is not modified (94xt 4x4)- any suggestions on tires. My BFG 31x10.5xr15 developed bulges between the tread- and there is heck of a lot of tread left on three out of the 4 tires. This disturbs me- I am beginnng to question the quality of the BFG brand as well.

Open to suggestions
Rico

Yes, it is nationwide. Ford sent a letter to Costco (and supposedly many other places) advising them that they are not allowed to put on LT rated tires on the Ford Explorer. I ran into it here in Mesa, AZ a few months ago even though I read about it several months before. The Tire Manager did say he would mount them on my rims if I brough them in, but he wouldn't mount my tires on my Explorer. I left after we got into an argument about my 255 70R16 Wilderness ATs that my Explorer came with. He insisted up and down that Ford never put that size on an Explorer so he couldn't sell me that size. He could only sell me the tires that his book showed which incorrectly listed a 255 70R15 as an optional tire. That size was not offered, but his book was written by a higher authority than me. If I wanted him to mount tires, I would have to come back with 15" rims and then he would mount a 235 75R15 on my Explorer. He swore that in the 15 years he has been in the tire business, he has never seen an Explorer with 255 70R16s. I went to Discount Tire that had no problem mounting and selling me anything I wanted.

I went to BJs wholesaler to get the BFGs and they told me I should not put them on my explorer because they were LT tires. So maybe ford did send a memo out. I ended up buying the LTX AT,(Passenger rated) but I have not mounted them yet.

I don't know anything about not installing LT on an explorer, but can boast about the Big O tires.

I had some 31x10.50x15 Big-O AT's on my Ranger for 45,000 miles with no problems. They are a great tire for mild off roading and work great on the road.

They still had some tread on them when I traded them in (Big-O gave me $100 for my nearly wore out tires) for some of their XTs. The XTs are great also. A lot more agressive, but are supposed to last 40 to 50 thousand miles. The XTs are a great compromise for street, dirt, mud, and snow. They seem to flex well on the rocks also. I haven't had a chance to try them on the sand yet, but they are 33x12.50s, so I think the flotation should be great.

Rod

BJ's???? Wholesale!!!? Just point me in the right direction!!!! hehe....

anyways... I dont know what they are thinking... Now the 94 and earlier... thats a truck...I dont know about the newer ones though... seems kinda wimpy to me. :) hehe

nick

I visited the local Costco tire center 2 weeks ago to inquire into the BFG Long Trail or AT KO tires and when queried as to the size I wanted to order I told them LT235/75/15. The tire manager wrote the order up without delay and told me it would take 2 weeks or so to get the tires in. He couldn't get the AT KO, only the Long Trails at $79 (P size) or $89 (LT). This was a reversal of their previous policy in which they had always told me they would not sell me LT tires for a 99 Explorer. Go figure! Long standing policy there says no LT tires sold for Explorers, then the Firestone issue and suddenly they are willing to sell and install LT tires on the Explorer. I ended up going to Discount Tire and getting the AT KOs at $95. COSTCO is losing alot of revenue and customers due to their confusion.

I was TOLD to use LT tires on my Explorer because of the heavy trailer I pull, and that was by a Firestone tire dealer. The maximum weight that is rated on P tires is 8000 pounds, My truck/trailer combo exceeds that by 1500 pounds. What would Costco say to that? HMM? HMM? I'm going to find out just what is going on around here on the recall, and see about getting some Uniroyal LT tires put on. I am a 99% blacktop driver, so I good road tire is what I need, as opposed to the offroad aggressive tread types you guys need.

I dedcided to ditch my Wilderness AT's. I needed new tires this winter anyway and worried about the shortage. If you look at Goodyear, Ford, or Michelin's website, they say Explorer 4x4's need All Terrain (AT) tires. Light truck (LT & LT M/S) or Highway Tread (HT) are not recommended for Explorer 4x4's only the 4x2's. Ford lists approved subsitutes. Since the tire manufacturers tell you to follow Ford's recomendation, I wouldn't trust the tire jockey down the street trying to push the LT on the 4x4's. Costco was right if you have a 4x4 not to sell the LT tires. That's what Ford, Goodyear and Michelin say not to use. Even Consumer Reports mentions this warning from Ford in their tire review earlier this year. If you go to the LT, you must get the LT spare, otherwise you risk roll-over and un-even wear if you mismatch with the AT treads. I bought Michelin LTX AT's. They are much better than the Firestone's and seem to handle much better. I got them at BJ's for $94.00 ea. If you pull a trailer, you can get the Michelin LTX AT XL. "XL" means extra-load and costs about $8.00 more per tire. No, I do not sell tires, I just did a lot of research before I bought.

I went to Sam's club about a month ago to replace the infamous Firestones before the recall. The Guys(kids) at sam's told me they couldn't install any kind of LT tire on my '97 due to increased chance of a rollover. I was told that came directly from Ford. The only LT tires that were on the "list" were the wonderful Firestones. Eventually I put on Michellins LTX A/T. They are awesome street tires, nice comfortable ride.

I got this straight from a tire dealer here in Crystal Lake. The dealer will only install tires on this list he gave me.

The reason they are not putting those tires on the Ford Explorer is because of a letter they recieved from Ford specifying which tires are AUTHORIZED by Ford for the Ford & Mercury dealers to install on the Explorer, Mountaineer, and Rangers. For the 4x4 there are only 5 tires on the list. The dealers are misrepresenting this as a SAFETY issue, when in fact it is a cost issue. In fact you can put whatever you want on the vehicle, but the dealers will not because according to them, if the tire is not on the list, they can be held liable for any consequential incidents that may occur resulting from the use of non-authorized tires. I am going to call Ford later on this issue to see if it can be straightened out. The Dealer I spoke with said he has quite a few tires in the warehouse that can be used, but since they aren't on the list he can't sell them to an Explorer owner.

I have a 2001 Sport with the P255/70/16 tires and wanted to get rid of the stock Wilderness AT tires. I could not find a dealer who would sell me the LTX M/S. When I called Michelin's customer service line I was informed that the suspension of this truck was set up to only use P rated AT tires. Ford did this to reduce the possibility of roll over. Believe it or not, Michelin does not make a tire for this vehicle. As a matter of fact, the person at Michelin recommended the Pirelli Scorpion AT, which is one of the few tires on the market that are allowed on this vehicle. Well I installed the Pirellis and I am 100% satisfied. They do not hydro plane and they dramatically improved the high and low speed handling characteristics. Off road they have been superb! Why the heck Ford insists on the junk Firestone makes is beyond me, but they better get their act together, otherwise, they are going to blow the popularity of this SUV.

Oh, by the way, I tossed the Wilderness ATs because I did have one tire develop a funky crack in the front right tire shoulder block tread at about 8000 miles, plus they were a disater in the rain.



[Edited by jimslat on 08-26-2000 at 03:24 PM]

NTB sold me 5 brand spankin' new Dunlop Radial Rover LTs in the 30x9.50x25 denomination.....never even mentioned any issue with LTs............

I have had them for a couple weeks............They feel fine to me!

The restriction only applies to the 1997-2001 model years. I put Michelin LTX M/S tires on my 1999 Jeep and had fabulous results; however, they were not too good on sand. I had put the LT tires on my Jeep on the advice of my mechanic, because the stock Wrangler RTS developed sidewall bubbles.

I would have loved to put the LT tires on the Explorer, but I do not want to let Ford off the hook if I turn over the truck.

All in all, I'm very happy with the Pirelli Scorpion AT tire. Since I installed them I noticed the ABS does not need to work as often as when I had the Wilderness AT on the truck.

I have Scorpions for my Dakota pickup.......

VERY nice tire.....Not ver yaggressive looking, but they do a nice job for general use, including sand.

Glad to hear about the LTs not being an issue for older Explorers......I started getting that "bad" feeling!

:-)

Wait a minute......... I have a 94' xlt 4x4 and Costco refused installation of the LT on my Explorer. I am not seeing the line drawn on any specific year thus far.

Rico-

Don't worry, the restriction is like I said - 1997-2001. I got this directly from Ford and Michelin. The suspension on this vintage is different from your 1994. As a matter of fact, the rear suspension springs on my 2001 Sport are a bit beefer than the previous model.

I find it hard to believe, but I'm not letting Ford off the hook if I get killed in this rig! Anyway, the Pirellis are doing just fine by me.....

The restriction is for the year of my truck! :fire:

I would just like to :shoot: Firestone!

I got the same message NO LT on Explorers,and I have a 93 Limited. The reason/excuse was LT sidewalls are too firm and may increase risk of rollover. I tried to confirm this with Ford calling the 800 number listed in the full page ad in the paper - but NOONE at Ford knew anything. In fact, when calling the Ford number they said it was not Ford but the tire help line and Costco was not an authorized dealer, so I filed a complaint to get someone to respond and have not heard anything yet.

As far as I know, the restriction is for the 1997-2001 model years. Ford has been less than helpful about this, but after I bitched about this they finally gave me the info. Strange enough, the people on the Michelin customer support line gave me the low down and why. It has to do with the suspension on this vintage which is very different from the arlier models. According to Michelin the suspension was designed around a non-LT tire to control rollover. Even the people at Michelin could not understand why Ford chose not to work around an "LT" rated tire. The last set of Michelin LTX I had on my 1999 Jeep had a much better ride than the "P" rated Wranglers RTS supplied OEM.

Michelin is about to introduce a new AT tire for the 1997-2001 models. I would have waited for them, but they are not due out until 1/2001. If you can't wait, go for the Pirelli Scorpion AT. Believe it or not, the Michelin rep I spoke to suggested looking at that tire since it was one of the few out there with the right size and rating for my 2001 Sport.

I hope I did not confuse you folks out there.....

Talked to Ford customer service again and explained that I had non Firestone and non OEM size tires on now, they agreed as the customer spending their own money I could put on any size tire I want or LT instead of P rated. I asked if someone would tell Costco or authorized dealers, he stated that if it's a problem to goto a Ford dealer and have them write up a letter stating approval. He also stated that it would void any warranty in that area - but with the 93' not really a problem.

My 2001 Sport is too new to experiment with. Case in point about warranty coverage and tires - I have a 1999 Jeep Cherokee that originally came with 225/75-15 Wrangler RTS (junk). I went to COSTCO to buy the Michelin LTX, but they only had the LT235/75-15 size. I thought how much trouble could the larger size be, besides the Jeep's ride, handling and looks all improved, that is until the computer light kept going on and off after a day or two of driving. To make a long story short, the Chrysler dealer found a code that referred to a disagreement between vehicle speed and engine RPM. He was perplexed until he looked closely at the tires, only because they were brand new and looked a little beefier than stock. At that point he told me to get the right sized tire because the warranty will be voided, especially when came to the suspension. COSTCO gladly order and installed the new tires and accpeted the 235's back, while giving me back $20.00! The right sized tires cleared up the computer problem.

Chrysler was not kidding about the warranty being voided and I am sure our freinds at Ford will have no problem screwing anybody regarding warranty or litigation issues that arise form accidents. Look at how lame they have been about the Widerness AT fiasco! It wasn't us that put that garbage on our trucks!

[Edited by jimslat on 09-06-2000 at 05:05 AM]

I've been reading about what all of you have done to your trucks... Well, I'm getting a 2001 Exp. Sport this weekend... with the premium sport group, meaning I get the Wilderness AT 16" tires... should I have them replaced?

Have them put some other brand on, don't accept Firestones.

LADYbug1104,

It's hard to say if you should have them replaced or not. My father just got a new 2000 XLT and he also has the Wilderness AT on his. The dealer reassured him that these tires were fine, but still you have to wonder after all the stuff you read in the news. I have Wilderness AT on my Explorer that were not on the recall. I had an independent tire shop look at them and they told me the tires look fine and that I should just leave them on there unless they order a recall on all the tires and I can get them replaced for free. I have discussed the matter with my wife and we both thought that I should just replace them anyway. We have a baby coming in about 7 weeks and it's not worth the worry for $500. That's a small price to pay for peace of mind and safety.

But do you all think that it would be okay to wait until next January? According to JimSlat... the new Michelin AT tires are coming out by then... My dad had told me that if I were to get my tires replaced, get Michelin tires... all of our other cars use this brand, and they're all pretty good... As for the Exp Sport I'm getting... well, I won't be doing anything else besides city and highway driving... so do you all think it will be okay to wait about 5 months before I get them replaced??? And yes, the dealers have assured me that the new tires on the Sports are reliable... but it's true... You never know... And of course, if I have to pick between my life and the lives of others vs. saving $500 on tires... of course I would pick my life and the lives of others... I just want to know if you all think it's okay to wait for the michelin tires...

Thanks

Have the dealer replace them, or don't buy it from them. After all that has been going on with the tires, and knowing first hand how bad they are, I wouldn't buy a truck with these tires on.

My dad was pretty upset because the dealers are not willing to change the tires for free... My dad's like... "But it's not your fault their tires are defective, so why should you pay extra??!!" Yeah, I can see my dad's point... so I'm going to have to hold my purchase...

Our family banker/accountant said that Ford will be buried deep in the near future... With all this bad publicity, they have already lost so many customers... They will be forced to sever the contract with Firestone and replace all tires with a different brand... or if not that, due to low sales, they will have to drop the prices... Either or, my dad said I get to save money... So I guess that's what I'm going to do... *Sigh ...

It's just sad coz it's the tires that have the problem, not the trucks... Ford made a stupid move putting up with Firestone, and now they are paying for it... Not only is Firestone's reputation sunk, but Ford's as well... And things will get worse if it can be proven that Ford knew about the Firestone problem, but did nothing about it, or even tried to hide it... Many people died...

*Tsk-*Tsk... Either case, I'll still have to wait... I'm not going to pay for something I am not responsible for... At least I get to save money... I'm just glad that I have not bought it yet... I'll just have to wait for all this dust to clear...

If the Ford Dealer wants the sale, he'll replace the tires for you at no charge. If one dealer is unwilling, try another. Tell them up front, you want to buy the truck, but the Crapstones have to go. They want the sale. The tires won't cost them anything to replace. They'll do it. If you want to wait for Michelins if they don't have them, try making a deal with the dealer to get the Crapstones that come with replaced in the future when the Michelins come in as part of your sale. Can't hurt to try!

Reports are that Ford has made a deal with Michelin to supply OEM tires in the near future for the Explorers and other trucks that came almost exclusively with Crapstones.

Personally I think Firestone isnt as bad as everyone claims. I have some HT's on mine and I dont feel Im going to die all the time. I drive them VERY hard in a VERY hot climate... and they look better than ever. Ive been very happy with them... And I have to say, my AT's (I think they were ATs...) on my ride before this... served me well too. Now...I would definatly want some BF Goodrich tires on there instead... but the firestones wouldnt stop me from buying the car. Ive been complaint free with them for 6 years. Also... has anyone had the BFG Long Trail Tires and the AT KO's? Im trying to decide between the two... I do mostly city driving.. but my truck has seen a little bit of off road/snow action. Not a whole lot though.

Oh... Charisse, I never heard from ya. When can I pick you up? ;)

Nick

One of the OEM tires supplied on my 2001 Sport developed a funky crack after a round trip from New York to Delaware. The Firestone dealer claimed it was only an cosmetic problem, but they were very quick to replace the tire with a new Widerness AT. Instead I put on Pirelli Scorpion AT tires. It was the best thing I did. The ride and handling improvement only proved what a piece of crap these tires were.

I was at the dealer (Flemington Ford in NJ) where I purchased the vehicle and I saw a large pile of Widerness AT tires and could not find a new vehicle with the Firestone tires on them. Now that is being proactive! I would only purchase the vehicle if the dealer is willing to deliver it without the Firestone tires.

The LT tires hold more weight, I saw a chart somewhere but now I can't find it, they are also stiffer sidewalls. The P tires I think would ride a little softer - can anyone who has tried both tell how the difference in the ride is?

Lt's give it a much stiffer ride, you will feel every crack in the road. P's are Passenger tires, soft sidewalls absorb the bumps from cracks more so you don't feel it. You really only need LT's if you plan on pulling a heavy trailer, otherwise, unless you plan to shove 100 car batteries, or caryy a lot of Mercury, you really don't need them.

Hey Kilroy,

In theory you are 100% correct! However, I do think it depends on the brand. When I replaced my "P" rated Wrangler RTS on my 1999 Jeep I chose the Michelin LTX "LT" rated tire. I was shocked by the improvement in ride quality and handling. The LTX provided a much more comfortable ride. Go figure!

I can either wait for Ford to start using a different tire brand for their Explorers here in Florida, or I can just look for a dealer that will be willing to replace the tires for free... These are the only two options I can be satisfied with... Thanks for everyone's opinions...

Oh, and Nick... go read my other thread to see my response to your question... if in case you have not read it yet...

Ladybug....

But there IS a third choice..........one that people seem to keep forgetting about with all the hub bub.......

For the folks that are worried about their safety, etc etc during the wait for Firestone and/or Ford to come through....

Just go buy new tires and get reimbursed. Believe me..I know that coming up with $400+ for new tires on the spur of the moment isn't easy......

But I was faced with a decision.....

1) Leave the ATXs on my truck and HOPE that I didnt become a statistic (several folks who took this route HAVE become a statistic already!) while waiting a month or longer to get God-knows-what kind of replacements from Firestone

2) Bite the bullet and come up with "some" way to buy quality tires now and get reimbursed later (hopefully)by Firestone, if they don't belly up........

3) Leave the truck parked until it was worked out........

I asked my self one question: how much is my life and my family's lives worth? I then found the decision very easy to make.....#3 was NOT an option for me.......

I ended up having to apply for a 90-days same as cash credit card at the tire shop to be able to do it....but I would rather hafta worry about one more monthly bill than be dead.......Is this a bit dramatic? Sure.....but tell that to the 80 some folks who have been killed cause of disintegrating tires. Remeber: Hindsight is always 20/20.......

So: In the end, it's our choice and our gamble....we know about the problem, we know what measures have been taken to "fix" the problem, we know the waits involved, we know what we ourselves are willing to gamble.........AT this point, if ANYONE else dies in a Firestone related accident, it is now also their own fault....there has been too much news about this and too much publicity for anyone to claim that they didnt have a chance to make a decision.......

Myself? Tell that bill collector to leave his number.... I'll call back tomorrow...I got new tires so I should be around to be able to call him back............ :-)

Thanks... That is definitely something to think about =)

I worked at Sears when the Explorers first came on the market. The big buzz around at that time was that ONLY P225/75R15 tires could be used on the Explorer, nothing else, no exceptions. This came from Ford. Have any of you ever seen a P225/75R15???????? That had to be some scam between Ford and Firestone, talk about an odd tire size. Was Firestone the only maker of that size? Those same places that won't put on LT tires, pawning it off as a "safety concern" are probably doing crappy brake jobs, putting on cheap crappy oil filters, over tightening your lug nuts, etc. Sears always tried to portray themselves as looking out for our safety and crap like that, but they would sell you a new tire for $18.99. Let me tell you, that was one quality tire. (sarcasm mode off)

Hmm... oxygen and hydogen are not chemicals...

Give me a friggan break all you Einsteins. It's just a damn quote, I didn't make it up. And I don't really give a flying fart if it is scientically accurate. I just thought it was funny.

The 225/75-15 tire size is also the optional size for the Jeep Cherokee. You can find tons of junk in that size. Problem is there is very little good stuff in this size.

Dolphan
I just got my five P235/75x15 ATXs (30K miles) replaced with Bridgestone Dueler LT235/75x15s by Firestone and the improvement in my 93 EB 4X4 2dr automatic is remarkable! More noise and stiffer ride (hey it's a truck!) but much less body lean, higher rated payload (I pull a boat)and less wander on the highway. Initially they were going to put some Uniroyal Tiger Paws on it until they found out it was a 4X4. Then I thought I would have to wait for a new shipment of Dunlops, but when I pointed out the 360 degree cracks around the edges of both back tires they declared it an emergency situation and brought out the LTs from the emergency stash. Funny thing about the ATXs - one was made in Japan, two in Canada and two in the US. Supports a design rather than manufacture problem. Based upon my initial impression I would go for LTs.

Friday, 9-8-00, I tried to get two sets of LTX A/T's
in 30x9.50x15 for 91 and 93 Explorers from the Norfolk Va. store. The counter jockey stated he could only sell and install P225 or P235 tires. No LT sizes or styles.
He refused to give the manager's number too. He first claimed a Ford rep instructed them not to install other sizes then changed his story to include the Michelin rep.
Dealers I checked with Saturday said tires up to 30"
should be acceptable.
Calls to Costco's # haven't helped. (800-774-2678)
The 91 had 30's on it from the dealer and the 93 seems
to have even more clearance.
Since there's not a Discount Tire here I'll keep looking.
BJ's has a decent price but without a hazard warranty.

Bob