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I went to buy 30/9.50x 15" bfg at ko's today and the dealer said he didn't like this tire. Claimed they would hydroplane because no straight grooves. Are these tires alright on a cupped out 2 lane after or during rain? Some people say they ride rougher wich I could see with a three ply sidewall but I hear michelins are stiff also. I don't like mic.s either. This is the wifes daily driver and she likes the sidewall tread look. (Cool wife huh!?) I don't want a tire that isn't good on gravel, wet or dry. Is the Geolander at or Goodyear ATS better? Please help as I'm confused. Current tires are GY R/TS and have 55000 but been bad in wet weather since I bought it with 40000. Love this board! PS I currently have 32" mud TA's on my f150. These are great tires. I buy these when ever I can find blems so do you ever find blem ko's

[Edited by 4x4 on 08-22-2000 at 06:51 AM]

Go find another dealer who knows what he is talking about. Has he ever driven on them, or just looked at the tread? Do a search on this site about these tires; they are the most universally praised tires among the members of this entire website. You will get very minor (almost unnoticeable) road noise in the 15-30 mph range while braking and cornering as those big treads grab the road under stress. They are as quiet or quieter than stock tires under all other circumstances. Mine are much bigger; maybe stock size would produce no excess noise whatsoever.

I went from my stock Firestone 255/70r16s (hydroplaned all the time) to huge 285/75r16s in the BFG AT ko's. They have MUCH more tread on the pavement which would make one believe they would ski pretty easily. I CANNOT make them hydroplane. Oh yeah, you can expect over 70,000 miles out of them; maybe much more.

They are hands down the best tire I have ever owned, period.

[Edited by GJarrett on 08-22-2000 at 06:44 AM]

I fully agree with Gerald. These tires have plowed through huge puddles of water and I haven't had a lick of trouble with them hydroplaning. There is some noise, but not much more than a street tire. I, myself kinda like the low rumble.
As Gerald said, go somewhere else and get these tires , you won't regret it.


I also believe most places, at least here(NTB, Sears..), offer a 1000 mile test drive to see if you like them... as about it.

Geolander or Good Year are not better. With the BFG, you have probably the BEST tire on the market. Also on snow, it performs well.

I've tried to get them to hydro plane but they won't I've tried at every speed up too 60.These are some damn good tires

The BFG's are good tires, while I don't have them, I trust most of the reports on the board. I would also suggest the Goodyear AT/S. I have those on my truck. They are a bit louder than stock, but they grip much better and no hydroplane trouble at all. Just another option for you. I have been very impressed with them so far.

Dave

It will not hydroplane, but then again, if you're driving too fast it wouldn't matter what kind of tires you have.

I have had these KOs since last November and went through a couple of major rain storms here in Northern CA and also rain storms that turned into snow blizzards going up to Tahoe and never did I experience hydroplaning. I was driving at speed up to 70MPH before I realized I was driving that fast and slowed down.

Your tire dealer may be biased or inexperienced but the people here who have these tires on will vouch for them.

The only minor inconvenience was discovering one tire was defective. The vehicle would pull to the side that tire was on. It was replaced at no cost and now everything is fine again.



[Edited by kvo on 08-22-2000 at 07:47 AM]

We have 32"x11.50" Ko's and we have to drive on a 2 lane rutted (too many heavy vehicles driving on it in 100+ degree weather).

I normally drive 60-65 on that road.. but slow down to <50 in the rain (and slower near the curves).. at 50mph I can get it to pull hard to one side or the other when only 1 side of the vehicle hits water.. but it is usually close to 1" of water... Other than the puddles we don't hydroplane..

Last week we had a good rain storm and the right lane (our lane) was under water.. the right tires were in the water up to the hubs.. and the left tires were about 3" in the water.. We were doing about 10mph (maybe less) and the water was doing at least 10mph (problably more).. We didn't have any problem with it.. (yes I repacked the bearings afterwards)...

We have also used the Yokohama Geolander MT tires (not the AT) and never had any hydroplane problems... Of course that is an MT tire and not a AT tire.. It also only lasted 20k miles (30k was really pushing it)..

We can tell already that the Ko tires are going to outlast the Yokohama tires..

I agree with the other suggestions... Change tire dealers...

I had a set of the older BFG A/Ts and can honestly say they were the best rain tires I've ever had. I plan on getting a set of the KOs when my M/Ts wear out.

I'd bet the dealer you spoke with gets a bigger cut ($$$) on the other tires he recommended. Go with the BFGs...

I'm going to echo what these chaps are saying. I bought my BFG AT KOs a month ago today. I liked the tread pattern and so many people swear by them. I wanted good grip in the snow.
I had heard a similar, but false rumor about them hydroplaning. But I like to find out things for myself. A few weeks ago we had this wet weather pattern come thru the Chicago area for a week. Rain every day on and off. Heavy and light. Let me tell you, I drive fast sometimes. Not too crazy, but I take corners probably faster than I should. On the rainy days, I made it a point to corner hard, I mean REALLY hard in the pouring rain. I couldn't get them to slip. I was hitting 90 degree turns from 25-35+ MPH. They really grabbed the pavement well. I think one or twice at the highest speed while cornering I may have slipped an inch, but any faster and I felt I might have rolled the truck.
Alas, another myth proven false. I can't wait till the first snowstorm here :)
That guy at the dealership is a chump, he is clearly wrong. Everyone likes to have an opinion. However, BFG is a proven name and there are at least 9 good opinions (and many, many, many more) versus Joe Blow at the "Please Buy Our Firestones" Friendly Ford Dealership.

T-Bone


[Edited by T-Bone on 08-22-2000 at 07:28 PM]

Well,
I don't think the person you were talking to knew what he was talking about. The BFG KO's are the best tire I have ever owned on my truck. They do not hydroplane. They will last 70K miles and I can tool down the road at 70 with the radio off and NOT get a headache, because they are fairly quiet for a offroad tire. My vote, BFG KO's all the way!
Oh, and Welcome to the site, hope you enjoy it here. :)

T-Bone, you are not hydroplaning because you have that monster winch on the front! :)

Matt-
That was before the winch. Now I'm afraid if I brake too hard I'll flip nose first onto the trucks back. opps! LOL. I heard someone mention the front end sagging after 180 lbs. on the nose. You would expect it. I haven't seen it happen though. Maybe over time.
While on the subject of BFGs. How are those BFG mudders you bought in the rain? Snow?

Just curious.

T-Bone

Well damn T-BONE, be patient my man, doesn't look like snow for about...oh...3 months if we're lucky. When it rains I will let you know, I just got 'em today, dang!

On the sag note, saw a sorry a$$ blazer in a HD parking lot and it had a bumper like yours. :rolleyes:Friggin' thing looked sorry all weak and saggy. That poor blazer didn't know what hit it.

LOL! Ya, I should be patient. Is it snowing yet?? Damn!

Is it me or do Blazer owners seem kind of depressed? I mean, I hate to sound cynical, but I consider myself to be a quick judge of character. They always seem to be saying with their eyes, "OK, next truck is going to be an Explorer...DOH its broke again!"
Disclaimer: Comments made by T-Bone do not reflect the opinion of Ultimate Explorations. But we all think it's probably true.
Disclaimer: The last disclaimer and the contents therein, do not necessarily reflect the opinions of T-Bone, but rather....awww forget the whole dang thing!!!

T-bone, let me know when it snows in Chicago because it will snow in Cleveland the next day. :) That's how we predict weather here, whatever happens in Chicago happens here 24 hours later.

For the record, I have the BFG AT's and they are great in the rain. My old 'Stones were not very stable when the water started to puddle. I was driving down the freeway in a rainstorm with them last fall and the vehicle didn't seem like it was touching pavement very often. Not a good feeling. This just doesn't seem to happen with the BFG's. Oh, if you go really fast in really deep water, I'm sure you can get them to lose contact, but it didn't happen at normal highway speeds for me.

Ok T-Bone, today is your lucky day. It rained and it rained hard. My MT's worked great, tried a few hard turns, a bit lathargic, but no slippage. The tires are heavy, almost twice as heavy as my stocks. They work well for mudders. I don't drive my truck too hard on the streets, it is a truck and it will do a lot of damage. Wait, I take that back, I try to drive as safe as possible...uh....aww hell, I go balls to the wall. ;) One thing I did notice with the MT's is that it does not pull when hitting large deep puddles. Must be that mud tread.

Just wanted to add my .02
As you'll all see soon on the before after site, my truck has gone from stock with firestone 235's, to Dunlop 225/50/15's and a dropped suspension, to a 2" sus. lift with 31/10.50 BFG's, to finally 33/12.50 new BFG ko's.

I'll tell you about hydroplanening (spell check)in the rain, being in south Florida we get a lot of it. With stock, I did a couple of 180's on the road, with the dunlops and my heavy foot, I did a 180 and went over a median. Then I got the 31 BFG's and forgot what skidding was until I drove them for about 1 1/2 years, lately with a very worn out thread I had to be cautious. Today I tried out my new 33" KO's under the storm we had and like others here said, I tried to make them skid and it didn't happen. These tires are awesome in the rain.

Robert

Kuran: When I read your post I got a tear in my eye because you have finally found safety and freedom in the BFG brang.

Sport: I got a tear in my eye from your post, at least I thought it was a tear, but it turned out to be mud. In fact, my whole face was covered with mud! <shaking my fist wildly in your direction>. Damn kids and their new fangled mudders!

BTW, I'm only 32. That guy in my biz's pics is a guy working in the shop is Andy. He's an old timer at the ripe old age of 54. LOL. Now I'll here it from the Ford owners who liked Fords when they were FORDS! :)

T-Bone

Kids? I am 29 thank you very much. You want more mud in da face? :frustrate

I'm sure you all love your tires. There is only one problem with the criteria that you used to arrive at your conclusion. Hydroplaning is not a "skid" and it is not losing traction while taking a corner too fast. You can't test whetether or not a tire hydroplanes by slamming on the brakes.

Hydroplaning occuurs between 40 and 60 miles per hour and is caused by the tires failure to disperse water. If the tire doesn't displace water well, the tire actually rides on the water as opposed to the roadway surface. This means that you lose directional control (car won't steer). Once this happens people over-react and oversteer the car. This is something you don't want to do in an Explorer.

So before you decide that your KOs are so awesome that you can drive at any speed when the pavement is wet, think again, you probably will be pushing your luck.

quote] from KVO
It will not hydroplane, but then again, if you're driving too fast it wouldn't matter what kind of tires you have [/quote]

I don't think anyone was trying to say they wouldn't hydroplane, just they are better than most tires tried. By using the term 'slipping' I assume they meant the loss of control or contact from the road. I am not sure from where you get the info that hydroplaning only occurs between 40 -60 mph. I would tend to believe if the truck/car is moving and hits enough water so the tires lose contact, that is when you hydroplane. I'm pretty sure I have lost road contact at lower speeds due to large pools of the watery stuff. You are right that it isn't due to just sliding around a corner or mashing the brakes to see how far you can slide. That's just plain skidding.

Originally posted by Mikey
I'm sure you all love your tires. There is only one problem with the criteria that you used to arrive at your conclusion. Hydroplaning is not a "skid" and it is not losing traction while taking a corner too fast. You can't test whetether or not a tire hydroplanes by slamming on the brakes.

Hydroplaning occuurs between 40 and 60 miles per hour and is caused by the tires failure to disperse water. If the tire doesn't displace water well, the tire actually rides on the water as opposed to the roadway surface. This means that you lose directional control (car won't steer). Once this happens people over-react and oversteer the car. This is something you don't want to do in an Explorer.

So before you decide that your KOs are so awesome that you can drive at any speed when the pavement is wet, think again, you probably will be pushing your luck.

No offense, but I think some of your info is incorrect. You CAN hydroplane when slamming on brakes and/or taking corners tightly at ANY speed. As the weight of the vehicle is transfer from tire to tire, the tires loosing weight CAN rise to the surface of a good sized puddle and HYDROPLANE. I don't think you want to do this in ANY vehicle. One of the advantages of the BFG KO's is that the tire itself is quite a bit heavier than most truck tires. Also, take a look at a pic of a BFG KO's tread...tell those babies can't displace water!

I didn't come up with the 40-60 MPH figure. It stems from the laws of physics and an algebraeic formula. It is well known among accident reconstructors and investigators, the latter of which I happen to be.

Don't take things so personally. I wasn't slamming the tires or Explorers.

I had 33\12.50's and only got a chance to have them on snow and they sucked on the harder packed snow and were great in deep stuff, but that's because they were wide. Don't get me wrong, it's a great tire, my friend put 33\9.50's on his 84' cj. It has a 350 in it and those things on that lite little cj were awesome on hard packed snow and a bit of standing water.:D

by the way, he had the skinny tire only for the winter, he had big ol' mudders for the rest of the time.;)

Mikey is correct, hydroplaning only occurs when the tire fails to disperse water at high speeds. Anything else is just traction(friction) loss. Actually, hydroplaning is friction loss as well, hydroplaning is just a term.

[Edited by 2001ExpSport on 08-30-2000 at 06:12 PM]

I'm going to drive with snow chains from now on! Ok, wait....ok no.

T-Bone

T-Bone, we aren't going to Attica this weekend. Looks like Early Oct. Get your a$$ ready!

;)

Yes, Mikey is right. I've done it before. You pretty much lose all steering ability; the car acts like a boat without a rudder. All you can do is gradually slow down until the tires can again make contact with the road. I was lucky; it was a worn road with water built up in the grooves. I felt things go loose, but the car I was in gradually drifted out of the grooves and reconnected with the road. It was over in a few seconds. I suspect that people encounter this quite often, but if they panic, the results can be devastating.

That being said, I'll stand behind what I said about the BFG's. They channel water much better than the Firestones did. I haven't hydroplaned in them, and although I do slow down for water, I haven't had to crawl through puddles by any stretch of the imagination.

BTW, the car that I did hydroplane in had pretty well worn tires on it. As your tires wear, the chances of hydroplaning go up. The more tread you have, the faster you can go before hydroplaning occurs.

There is no doubt that the BFG KO's are an excellent tire, any BFG for that matter.

Matt-

Sorry you guys aren't going. I'll be ready in Oct.! Skid plates on order!

T-Bone

Where did you get them, I want some as well. How much?

Matt-

They aren't ordered yet. Next few days. I'm going to order them thru Ford, unless you know of anyone else.

T-Bone

Not really, did they give you any prices?

No, I didn't check out prices yet. I'm guessing within $250. I hope I'm not wrong. I need to hook up with my cousin sometime soon. He is one of these master welder and sheet metal guys. He's got all his own equipment. I ruined a bumper on my '87 Ranger about ten years ago and he said he could make me one out of some iron pipe. I gave his the truck and I went to see it a few days later and he made this BAD A*S bumper made of 3/8" thick 6" diameter black iron pipe. He also welded on two 45 degree ends for the straight pipe and brackets to the frame/bumper mount. Serious professional welding. I was awestuck. Anyway, 500 years from now all that will be left of that vehicle will be that bumper! LOL.
I should give him a call. He lives in Rockford. Maybe he can make up something for me (us). He's a gear head too so that helps.
T-Bone

Ya, that would be cool.