I have only known KC lights, and thats what I use. I love the lights, rugged and bright. How do they compare to PIAA and Hella's? Have I been missing out on much?

some people swear by KC's... I myself have little experience with them. They seem like an OK light... I know their brightest light has less candlepower then PIAA's brightest light (well HID aside, those don't count) and uses a lot more wattage if that tells you anything... I know they don't have a lifetime warranty like the PIAA's do... Hella's... don't get me started on Hella's...

hey matt.....

HELLA !

sorry, couldn't resist...... :)

hey jarrett

Has a pain in the butt install for a light that is half the power of others

Matt is forming a little dictatorship over lights here it seems, letting his little 'deal' go to his head.
I've seen PIAA's, Hella's, and KC in action.
KC's are very tough and very powerful and cheap also. My friend has some on his Jeep and has taken them thru thick and thin and they still work fine.

After my body lift my next purchase is lights so it's between KC's and Warn.

dictatorship? LOL, thats part of it... most of it is just preference and knowing what is good in lights. I'm not the only one with PIAA's and everyone that has them speaks very highly of them. I only know one person with KC's so like I said, I don't have much experience with them. I know stats on all the lights which is why I know that the PIAA's are more powerful with a less wattage. And yes, I do know a lot about lights. If you've got PIAA's I can tell you by looking at them what model number they are, and even if they aren't PIAA's I can usually tell what brand, and often what model they are without looking too closely... unless there a "CATZ" brand light or "IPF" light, neither of which I'm too familiar with. I have personal experience on my own vehicles with only PIAA's and Hella's... hence my poor opinion of Hellas. Plus lots of people that have them tell me how sick of them they are, constantly blowing fuses, relays, frying wiring, burned out headlights, cracked lenses and leaky seals, not to mension bolts that refuse to truly tighten down the light. So yes, I know what I'm talking about... you and Sinjin constantly pester me but I do know what I'm talking about and it's more then just a preference or "sponsorship" with PIAA. I know what's good, and I know what isn't. I am alway shonest with lights, I'll say heck yeah PIAA's are more expensive then Hellas, and there more expensive then KC's, and there more expensive then CATZ and IPF, and there more expensive then Warn lights. Because you get what you pay for, always. If you want to buy Hella's or KC's thats fine, thats your opinion, I have no negative feelings towards you for wanting to do so. My honest opinion is that PIAA makes the best lights and I've got stats to prove it, as well as feedback from other people, plus the fact that no other light manufacturer has a lifetime warranty. Heck ya Im partial!

Excuse my ranting but I hate it when people criticize my for liking the lights I like simply because they aren't the lights they like.

now you did it...you made him angry. I myself run Hella's and I'm also one of them how speak out openly against them. They are a nice light don't get me wrong but every set I've used(the 550 on mine and the 4000 on a friends) haven't been what I thought they would be. The 550 on mine not only were a pain the the butt to install but just aren't built worth a dang. I knew that going into the purchase, but cost paid a price in that buy. I don't like the plastic case, the wires that can't hold any more power than the 55watt bulb, the relays I blow when I turn them on. As for the 4000, these are a very nice light. The install is eaiser, but they're the same wires, relays, fuses, and so forth. Why don't the use thouse harnesses in the other ones too like everybody else I know of. Even the cheap a## Baja's I have came with everything ready to go. For a extra few bucks I could of got the piaa 40's and saved myself a huge headache and after the fact I wish I would of.

As for warn and kc...I never even seen kc up close or in action so I can't speak. I do love the warn lights though and I was one of the first to start talking about them. They are built to last, have high output watt wise, and aren't that bad in price. The harness on them is awsome. They make them easy to install and the ends are waterproof from the getgo. I just wish I could see them in action. Never seen the actual light that it puts out in person. I myself am looking in Warn lights as I've said in the past, however right now I'm leaning towards the Piaa's. If somebody can show me the Warn light I might change my mind

KC 6 inches produce 385,000 candle power and use 150 watts.
Pro 80 XT series run 120 watts but I cannot find the candle power. What is it? 1,000,000,000?

I know your Mr. Lights but when you said KC's were OK lights and you have no experience with them, doesn't make any sense. I know loads of people who swear by them, and some of my friends in real life have them so I do have experience and they are terrific lights.

So I don't want people to be scared off from buying non-PIAA lights from you saying everything else is just OK.

[Edited by kubben on 09-25-2000 at 02:14 PM]

The PIAA 6 inch 80 XT with superwhite bulbs runs 385,000 candlepower at 85 watts.

The person I spoke with that had KC's on his was impartial too them, didn't like them and didn't dislike them... looking at them they didn't look super-great or bad at all. If that makes any sense.

Maybe Matt and Leebo should get there own Forum for PIAA's.
lol, jk :)

Yea and we should be banned from posting so we don't pester anyone. =)

that would be great....but there's one problem. I've only installed piaa's. I don't have them. I run Hella's too for now. I'm looking into another set of lights after vacation and I'm not sure what brand I'm getting.

But I do like the Piaa forum.....dibs on being the mod.

LOL it's allready "performance lighting". TO me that means PIAA lighting already :). J/K.

ok now .....im looking for really good off road lights... aside from HID... i have seen PIIA 6" lights but say driving lights on the packadge .... what model or info is a direct comparison with KC,PIIA,and WARN ?

i was on my way to pepboys to buy KC lights till i read this post ....still a strong possibility...just want to be sure im making the right choice

ok, I would consider the KC Daylighter 6" light a direct comparison to the PIAA 80 XT driving light, if that's the type you are looking for. The 80 XT comes in fog, driving, and pencil beam. The 80 XT's aren't always marked on the package as to what they are but you can tell by the lens. The fog lens is "fluted" (the whole lens has vertical lines across it), the driving light has a few flutes in the center (to spread a bit, but not much) and the pencil beam is basically no flutes, the pencil beam would probably be the closest to the KC. I hope thats what your looking for.

ok well .... on the piias what is the difference in candle power between the 3 types ? and is the driving beam actually for onroad use or is it just the wide beam rather than the pencil ?

Well I can't stand here and read this without opening my big old mouth! :) Heres my thoughts on lights. PIAA's currently are the best ones out there. KC's were the only choice for a long long long time for aftermarket lighting. I still remember all the rigs all through the 80's that had those and thats all that were good. So I would say that KC's are good lights. The one thing I do like about them is their metal covers/housings. To me that is just cool. I would say as far as reliability goes they probably are very reliable considering most of them that I see are still standing. Now I don't know anything about their wiring so I can't say anything about that though.

Matt also is not against Hela like he said. He is just trying to keep people from going through the same frustrations that both he and I went through with those POS lights. :) I have a set of Hella 550's myself. You know where they are? They are sitting in my parts bucket! You want to know why? Cause I blew all the relays I wanted to mess with on them. Cause all the switches I had for them eventually stopped working. So I ripped them out one day. Like everything else in the world you get what you pay for.

Everyone needs to stop busting Matts chops about running PIAA's and just ask their questions. He is always gonna recomend the best product for the job and thats just the way it goes.

Okay I wrote a lot...

Candlepower is as follows
fog - 150,000
driving - 385,000
pencil - 350,000

The driving is NOT for on-road use... well you can use it but everyone will be flashing you :). The pencils main goal is to shoot light as far down the trail as possible, they aren't designed ot light up the area around your vehicle very much, just down the road. The driving's sacrifice a bit of distance to give you more light closer to your vehicle.

Thanks for your support Ryan :).

i am putting 2 lights on my brushguard ... later i will be putting (up to) 4 on a roof rack that i dont have yet ..........

so the question is ...... what is the optimal position for pencil beams and flood beams ? or more directly ...since i am only doing the brush guard lights now ...... should i do pencil or flood ?

See...i'm not the only one who likes to tear up Hella lights....:)

I did a little bit of harm to mine once I tried to upgrade the bulbs in them once.....blew 2 relays, one fuse, and about 3 feet of the wire. They worked for about 2 minutes with the Piaa bulbs in them. Then the smoke hit....

Tank, what kind of light do you want? I mean if your not going to be racing with the lights on, then fog or driving would be better. If you don't need as much light close to the vehicle and need it further down the road, then driving or pencil. If you need it real close to the vehicle, and want a good amount of light close to the vehicle (not just directly in front but also out towards the sides) then the fogs would be better... Pencil beams are really only designed for if you need to light something up far away, like your going 60 mph in baja racing in the middle of the night and need to see what is 1/2 mile away so you have time to react to it... in situations like that the light close to the vehicle isn't needed... but if your rock-crawling at night or just regular wheeling, it doesn't matter what is 1/2 mile away because you won't be there for another 45 minutes :).

Tank,
Unless you are going to be desert racing, you don't need pencil beams. I have a simular setup to what you are thinking about. I have 4 PIAA Pro80xt's on my roof rack. Two are fog and 2 are driving. The fog lights are on the out side and the driving are inside. This is the pattern
(F)(D)(D)(F)
I also have a set of PIAA 520's in driving lights, but will soon change them to fog, because we do get alot of fog here in the central valley in California. They are mounted to my Serria wraparound, just under the winch. I chose the fogs because I know that they will light up more area directly in front of me and to the sides, so I can see what I'm driving over. Hope this helps

that reminds me Ray, do you still want to switch lenses?

Matt,
Yea, if I can get my truck back. I would like to have fogs.

Been following this for a while, and here's my two ¢. I just got a Manik grill guard, and had to have some lites to fill up that big space in the middle. I'd been looking at lites for a long time, and knew that I wanted good lites, and didn't mind paying for them. I got the guard at OK 4x4 in Stewartsville, NJ and they had PIAA, Hella, IPF, and many other brands of lites. I thought I wanted the PIAA lites (the dual driving/fog -980 was the model I think). But those IPF's really looked nice. I saw them on "TRUCKS" and asked the guy behind the counter about them. He didn't seem biased, and both lites were around $300, so I din't think he cared which one I purchased, but he said they were both very comparable, but a lot of the guys there (at OK 4x4) were partial to the IPF's so I went w/ his advice. I got the J01 hybrid fog/driving. I don't have any candle power figures, but the fog beam (they call it "J Beam") is "55 = 85 watt" and the driving is n 85 watt dichroic bulb. Installation took all of 1/2 an hour, and every thing works great. You can set up the 2 button switch to turn on either, or both the fog or driving lites. I've never personally used any aux. lites before these, but am VERY happy w/ their performance. I can't use the driving lites unless there's no one on the road, and the fogs lite up great all the way around to the sides of the truck. Does any one have any tips on precise aiming of the fog lites? I think I got it pretty much where I want it, but could use some advice. Hope this helped some of you.

has anyone mounted piia's to the bumper, just the bumper, im just planing on using the regular stock bumper, or getting a prerunner bumper

I'm not trying to incite anything. I tend to agree with Matt on alot of issues. What I think is the most humble response from him is that he doesn't have alot of experience with using KC lights. Myself however, I haven't had the opportunity ( cash :) ) to install them on my rig, but did get to put a set on a friends Blazer... When we went to install them there were several parts that were either cracked or lenses that were smashed. I made a quick call to KC's home office and was setup with the part numbers for replacement parts. We recieved the parts quickly and had the 4 6" daylighters shining in a nite. After several trips to the mud pit.. a marsh on this kids grandfathers' farm....the lights still worked. I was amazed by the ruggedness of the lights. I would like to know more about PIAA's lifetime warranty. Would they cover the cost of a new light if a rock got thrown from my tire and smashed it, or if I burried my pre runner into a swamp and shattered it? I'm not trying to cause trouble... SERIOUSLY .. 'm curious to know. If the warranty does cover those aspects of off road use...PIAA will QUICKLY take the #1 spot for my light choice. Right now KC and PIAA stand toe to toe for 1st in my estimation depending on your ###tionality involved.. And yes.. Hella's :P I didn't have good luck with my Hella' fogs...

I just read about the new warn lghts , does anyone have any experience with these lights and i think they are rather new, anyone???

too many posts to respond to... LOL... first off, 4x4hunters...
While PIAA's lifetime warranty doesn't cover damage done by such things as running a rock into it, you also don't have to worry about breaking the light due to a rock hitting the lens, because if you can break a PIAA with a rock being flung from your tires, then your a much better man then I :). When I was installing the PIAA's on my roof I accidentally dropped one on the cement driveway below... figure at least a 7 foot drop... landed lens side down of course, got one scratch adn one small little chip in the lens, that's it... plus I've runt hose lights directly into tree branches (not on purpose of course, things just happen) without covers on and the lenses haven't cracked at all, or chipped, or broken... the ones on my winch mount have been drug in sand, submerged in mud, banged against rocks, and they keep on ticking :) The only time I've ever heard of a PIAA breaking due to physical damage was when MikeX rolled his Explorer and it broke the lights on his roof... you can't expect a light to support a 4000-6000 lb. vehicle for a long amount of time though :). There was a post a whiel back about someone who has PIAA's in there car, the car rear-ended another car, completely destroyed the front end, and the PIAA's came out just fine, they were the only part that didn't have to be replaced in the front end. That to me tells me you will have a very hard time breaking a lens, no matter what you do :).

Now on to the question about warn lights... there was some other post regarding the warn lights, I responded with what I thought of them (much like before, I try not judge without trying, and I was neither thouroughly impressed by the lights nor disappointed with them, they look like they could take a lot of abuse and keep on going. The only thing I didn't like about them was their mounting, but not all warn lights are the same I'm sure so the mounting might vary from light to light. Mounting requried four holes be drilled for screws, for the base, then the light was placed in teh based and tightened down using one horizontal bolt. Once installed it'd be good but installing them (especially in a bumper or some other extremely hard metal) would be a pain int he butt. Also JayR - I know of a few people that have installed PIAA lights into the stock bumper, no sweat... now you couldn't fit PIAA 80 Racing's in there (those are the nearly 9 inch tall, about 6 inch deep lights), but most of their other lights shouldn't have a problem with...

JayR.....to answer your first question, if you don't have airbags you'll be fine. If you do have airbags it could be trouble. A post went on a while ago and the answer never was found.

As for the Warn lights.....They look like a very good light. They've got a h4 110 bulb and the wire looks to be well built. However I've never seen them in action. I am interested in getting some, but if I don't see them in action I'll go with Piaa's. They also have a mounting system that is very solid. You do need to drill 4 wholes(am I right on this one matt???) to mount them correctly.

Jerk beat me to it, but I've go pictures

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1207866&a=8912643&p=29718979



[Edited by leebo on 10-01-2000 at 07:25 PM]

Originally posted by leebo
JayR.....to answer your first question, if you don't have airbags you'll be fine. If you do have airbags it could be trouble.

What do airbags have to do with anything?

Now, about the anti-Hella sentiment going on around here. I'm not exactly pro-Hella or pro-anything for that matter but I do have 4 Hella 500s on my truck and they work just fine. I thought installation was relatively straightforward. I have been off roading on several occasions and never had a problem. The way some people talk about Hella around here you would think that the factory screwed up and accidentally made 2 pair of good lights. And I was fortunate enough to be the one to buy them. Now regardless of your personal experiences with Hella lights the fact remains that they are one of the most popular lights used in professional off road racing. I think they look pretty good and do a fine job of lighting the trail ahead of me. Are they the brightest lights? No. Are the 500's the best off road lights? Far from it. Are they a POS? Absolutely not. The pair cost around $60.00 and I haven't had any problems yet. And as far as people compiling about the complexity of installation, I would hate to be around you when you change your spark plugs! I spent less then an hour wiring them to my brights and mounting them to my grill and roof rack.

And just because product A is better then product B doesn't ipso facto make product B a POS. An example would be that the Lamborghini is better then the Mustang. Does that make the Mustang a POS? Of course not. And I'm sure I could find plenty of people that bought a Mustang they ended up not liking.

Cant we all just get along?

one drill bit into an airbag sensor could cause some nice cash. I'm still not sure where the sensors are in the Explorer, nobody has yet to be able to tell me.

ps.....if you notice I RUN HELLA'S TOO

Cameron, I think what makes this board great is the differences of opinion that actually help stimulate conversation and get people more interested in specific products. I also think it's great that people have differing opinions of various products, such as Hellas. I express my opinion about lights, you express yours, it makes it great. I've used both and can say that I was extremely dis-satisfied with the product. That's my opinion of them. Your opinion is that you used them and liked them, thats your opinion. It's what makes this board great. I have a long list of why I don't like Hellas and why I like PIAA's I can post it if you'd like, but everyone would attack me for being partial again. I hear a lot of stories from people about their Hellas, and I receive a lot of stories from people about their PIAA's, and I have experience with both lights, and I've based my decisions on my opinions alone.

Thanks leebo, I didn't know what your were talking about with the air bag thing. I thought I remember reading that the sensor for the airbags was located somewhere under the hood. I'll look it up in my Helms manual when I get home tonight.

And my Hella rant wasn't aimed at you. It was a general comment to all the anti-Hella people out there.

i installed my kc stainless daylighters last weekend...i am very happy with the workmanship, the install was no-brainer and took all of an hour to do.... it would have been much less time but i had to jump thru a few hoops because of the design of my brushguard..... i took them out to some farm land at night and did the final aim adjustments and was very happy with the amount of light they produced. havent had them off road yet but will find out soon enough...... one thing that i did really like that really does not matter is the covers... i bought the soft covers for them, black with a white "KC" in the middle .... looks awesome ...i mean really awesome on my black truck

Tank, I agree, those soft covers are pretty sweet... wish PIAA had them as well, but I have no complaints about the PIAA covers either. The cool thing about the KC covers is you can get them in many different colors, so you could get them to match the vehicle hypothetically. Definately a plus. Glad you like em!

Leebo,
The airbag sensor is not on the bumper, it is on the frame, so you can drill away on your bumper and not worry about it.

THANK YOU. It's been 3 weeks now and thats the first answer I got. Now if only I had a sensor to worry about.

hey I've got pictures too now :). Just to prove I did once own a vehicle with Hellas (for about a month before I switched to PIAA's). Here's one of my 98 F-150 when it had Hellas, and one with me standing next to it when it had the PIAA's. I was at Bandimere Speedway drag-racing it, which is why tehres a number on the windshield :). By the way, those are PIAA 520 fog lights on top, and PIAA 910's in the bumper.
http://bart.is-s.com/~explorers/madams/f150-1.jpg
http://bart.is-s.com/~explorers/madams/f150-2.jpg

[Edited by mattadams on 10-04-2000 at 06:54 PM]

my one complaint with the KC lights is there were absolutely no directions or any other paperwork at all with them .... i didnt have a problem but someone else might have .... and shouldent there have been a warranty card ?

my question is ... what i wanted to find out is what is the amp draw per light ..... what i want to do ...if i can is run all the power thru a keyed switch then to a dash light then to the switches.

then i will be able to lock out the system ... when the system is open the dash light will be lit ... and then i will have my 2brushguard lights on one switch , the 2 inner light barlights on one switch, and the 2 outer lightbar lights on a third switch. i know it sounds fancy but wiring it is not a problem .... just dont know what size wire to use to carry the amps for all the lights .

well Im not totally familiar with the concept of the keyed wiring so you'll have to bear with me here a bit. I have seen the type of thing you were describing though, used on batteries, basically the wire is cut, one end inserted into one side, the other end inserted in to the other end, and the key turning completes the wire, correct? So are we talking about having three seperate locks or running all three wires through one lock?

that should be how it was made to be ran in the first place??? I don't see any problems you'll run into. I use a 25amp fuse with mine and I've only blown it once(without the Piaa bulbs).

i want to use just one key switch... to activate the entire "lighting system" .... i dont want to have to do a relay if i dont have to ...but so far the best key switch i have found is rated at 10 amps

like I said unfortanetly I don't know too much about those key locks... but if the lights have their own relays then the amount of power going to the switches should only have to be an amp or less...

Howdy, I'm new to this board. Actually was checkin out the site when I saw my buddy Mattbert's post on lights. Well, have no fear, the lightmaster is here. KC's are a very very very very great light. I have 12 KC's on my truck (10 are 165 watt Daylighters) and can safely call my self the brightest F150 around. It's true, it's true. I'm in the process of bein sponsored by KC right now, and am attending the SEMA show in Vegas in a month to speak with there representatives. KC lights are awesome lights, the 150 watt Daylighters are untouchable in my eyes, more light than you will ever need....oh wait....that's me:) Lights shine miles and miles up the road, and I can see every thing there is to see. Pencil beam or not, if it's in front of me, whether it be 30 feet, or 30,000 I can see it perfect. I'm addin 7 more KC's soon possibly, maybe just 3, when I get the time. I have fabricated all the light bars and brackets and will have to do it again for the new lights, so it will be awhile. I'll tell ya one thing, I've gotten damn good at wiring lights up, that's for shure. Bottom line, if ya pick the Daylightes, you will be very happy, and very satasfied, I will promise you, and GUARANTEE IT!!!

http://media.f150world.com/world/gallery/Mudder/Mvc-002s.jpg

my project reverse light bar, which holds 4, so a total of 10 Daylighters on roll bar:
http://a1060.g.akamai.net/f/1060/597/30minutes/www.zing.com/picture/pb8f05b0f7686e826e800c5c5d622fd63/ff5c73e6.jpg

http://a1060.g.akamai.net/f/1060/597/30minutes/www.zing.com/picture/pe5d763475d45918f821b0d87310489af/ff5c73ca.jpg

hey mudder, welcome aboard! Just had to add mroe lights to keep up eh? LOL. Hey, we MIGHT be at the same place at the time, and I might have my Explorer up there... I may be attending the SEMA show assuming I can find a cheap place to stay while there. See you there if you go, and welcome to explorerforum.com. I knew right away when I saw the name "Mr. Daylighter" who it was :).

everyone else take note of the only person I've ever seen with more lights then myself... LOL

it's not how many you've got......it's how bright they are :P

thats what I keep telling him, he don't believe me :). We'll find for sure if we meet up at the SEMA show... speaking of which... check your e-mail Leebo...

check your pm.....i beat you too it.

Well, there's one problem with that Matt. I am flying out there with some other members of F150world.com. We have a little group goin just to attend the show, should be pretty fun. But I hope to see you and Vegas out there, would be a great time. I believe we are getting there on the 1st and stayin til Saturday the 4th.

well damn! :). Not sure I'll be there either, Im pricing hotels and such... I'd be driving out, either taking my Explorer or the Saturn (preferably the Explorer... it has cruise control and has headroom, but rides like crap)... I might know in a while... I've got the money to go just extremely hesitant to spend it is all :).

Just wanted to post this pic of my truck taken Saturday at a carshow where I got another award. KC is gettin plenty of advertisement from me, that is for sure. Guess that's why they give me great discounts:)

http://www.zing.com/picture/pdc270ce68fada2bd89bb0a5d167e8bcf/ff4b701f.jpg

Patrick - looks good. Curious as to what kind of a "discount" KC is giving you. IMHO, for hte publicity your giving them, they oughtta be paying for any new lights you put on, and refund part of what you paid for the lights you already have. Especially since your doing the whole banner thing and everything...

i would love to see what your switch pannel looks like ....how do you have them matched ?