I'm planning to install a set of attic access stairs in our attached garage. Currently we have an access panel there, but we plan to put some attic storage up there, and a ladder just ain't gonna hack it! I looked into it, and because the attic space over that garage isn't 'walled-off', the drywall between the garage and the attic/house is the firewall. That means that if I install an attic access staircase, it needs to be fire-rated (per the local building inspector).

Unfortunately that means the attic stairs are going to be HELLA expensive!! The cheapest set of stairs I found was a steel set, and they were over a grand. So, I'm wondering: What if I built a five-sided box over the non-fire-rated access stairs, that was drywalled on the inside with 5/8 drywall so it was then fire-rated? I found something similar here (http://www.ci.owatonna.mn.us/services/buildings/GarageAtticAccess.pdf). Think they might go for it? I think it'd work... it'd be no different then hanging a ladder from the ceiling... There'd still be no direct path for the fire to reach through from the garage to the attic...

What do you guys think?

Why not ask the building department? They will make the final call no matter what anyone here says. Seems like it will be a PIA to get into the attic over the taller sides. You must have a bigger attic then me, cause if I built that second one then I would be right against the sheathing.

As for asking the building department, let's just say there's been some not-so-nice run-ins with them in the past. The clerk thinks she runs the place, and the building inspector over-stepped his authority a couple years back with regards to a house they built next door to me. I don't like dealing with either one of them unless it's absolutely necessary...

Oh, and the sub-floor that's going to go up there won't be laid right across the trusses anyways... it's going to be elevated up off the truss about 10-12" anyways. That way, should I decide I need to add a layer of insulation or blow some in up there, I don't need to tear up the storage floor. It'll take the same amount of plywood either way, it' just takes about 30 2x4s to elevate it. That means that if I build the 'box' over top of it the correct height, the top of the 'box' will be at the same level as the new 'floor'... make sense?

...you can fire rate by continueing the entry wall between the garage and house, and any other seperations between the attic and the house, with 5/8 drywall all the way to the roof sheething....firetape all seems and no penetrations thru this area at all...this includes wrapping the rafter if need be at this location...;)

...btw, i just read your local code and it is not up to u.b.c. code, which supercedes theirs...you are to have a min. 1 hour fire rating between house and garage...20 min. will not work...;)

...you can fire rate by continueing the entry wall between the garage and house, and any other seperations between the attic and the house, with 5/8 drywall all the way to the roof sheething....firetape all seems and no penetrations thru this area at all...this includes wrapping the rafter if need be at this location...;)

The problem with that is the attic access is in the garage.... that would limit my storage space to the size of the garage. However, due to the roof layout, I'd end up with only a 12 x 8 area...

...btw, i just read your local code and it is not up to u.b.c. code, which supercedes theirs...you are to have a min. 1 hour fire rating between house and garage...20 min. will not work...;)


That means 5/8 drywall, right? They didn't run the walls all the way to the roof to start with... they used 5/8 drywall on the separating walls, and cut an access panel between two of the attic trusses, and it's got me wondering if that's actually up to code to start with?

Where did you find the code? I tried, but didn't have much luck.

....if the attic access (a.k.a. AA) is in the living quarters area, it has a 1/2" ceiling through out the house...the attic access opening must meet a frame measurement opening size of 24"x30" with a min of 3' above the frame structure for head entrance into attic area...this area is also required a light switch to a light in the attic...being this width of this size the opening, it is usually covered with 5/8" drywall for no sag...
...your garage on the other hand has to be 1 hr fire rated between the garage and living areas...since i believe, in the 1982 u.b.c. code book attic access's were no longer allowed in garages due to the amount of garage fires...
....the other reason they stopped this practice was due to fumes of stored items rising and collecting in the attic....hence, the fire rating thru to the bottom of the sheething between living area and garage....
...you can with a permit install an attic access in the garage if you meet the above requirements and install a commercial steel access door with a perimeter seal on it...some of these also require a special fire lock to be installed, some areas this is not required...
...you can either get or order a u.b.c. code book from your local city building dept. or county building dept....

...rockranger...out here we have a resource for contractors which is great...they are in anaheim by disneyland... http://bnibooks.com is there bookstore but they have another name i forget....they sell everything for the contractor from software to contracts to source books...they are also the ones who originally designed the contractor program software for homedepot ordering...;)

Hmmm... The existing attic access is in the garage, and it's nothing more than a 5/8 piece of drywall with a piece of trim around the perimeter... makes me wonder how in the world the building inspector issued a certificate of occupancy to start with???... Oh! I know how!! I bought the place new, and the builder is a local business owner (one of maybe 6 in our 'downtown'... it's a small town) who builds houses on the side, and the building inspector did my kitchen (he does cabinetry on the side).... gotta love small-town living!

I think I'm SOL on this one.... I may have to stick with what I have and just use a ladder.... I'm not real keen on that one, but it'll have to work.... It'll probably save me $200 though...

...what year was your house built??? if it was in the seventies that was the practice for awhile...:scratch:

...what year was your house built??? if it was in the seventies that was the practice for awhile...:scratch:

Umm '04... as in 2004. It's three and a half years old....

I can't seem to find any 1-hr. rated attic stairs. Most of the ones I've found are 30-minute rated, and the only 1-hr. rated one is from Czechoslovakia, and is rated for an hour by an international standards organization, but not Underwriters Laboratory, so I doubt anyone would accept it...

This really puts me in a pickle... I have no place else in the house I could put it that's not either directly over my (immovable) waterbed, in the middle of the living room, or directly over the basement stairs... The garage is the only logical place for it, but that's going to require an attic access ladder made of unobtanium to meet fire code... sheesh! What kind of a can of worms did I open here??

...the door is what is required to be rated...;) they are not interested in the ladder, or even if there is a ladder unless it's commercial property and it's requested by the fire dept for a c of o....

...just a heads up to all that may read this, insurance companies take the u.b.c. code first, (of course when the house was constructed is a major factor and the current codes that applied at that time, and their cost of repairs/replacement books), when they do insurance claims....this is usually preceeded by the cause of the damage and what neglect could have been the cause...;)

...codes are a good thing in most cases...it keeps our insurance down too...

...the door is what is required to be rated...;) they are not interested in the ladder, or even if there is a ladder unless it's commercial property and it's requested by the fire dept for a c of o....

...just a heads up to all that may read this, insurance companies take the u.b.c. code first, (of course when the house was constructed is a major factor and the current codes that applied at that time, and their cost of repairs/replacement books), when they do insurance claims....this is usually preceeded by the cause of the damage and what neglect could have been the cause...;)

...codes are a good thing in most cases...it keeps our insurance down too...


Indeed, and that's what's got me reconsidering the whole project... The 'what if' scenario... I don't want to get into it with the insurance company... should there be a garage fire, and the damage extend beyond the garage due to the attic access stairs, I'd hat to have the insurance company raise the issue of 'well who said you could put those there?'.... I can live with the ladder I use currently (10' Little Giant) and there's plausible deny-ability on my part if something ever happened... I never modified the access; it was there when I bought the place.

I'm also loathe to approach the building inspector unless absolutely necessary. Again, if I go to get a C of O when I sell the place, they're gonna do a walk-around inside, and if they see the opening, I can say, 'you approved it before I bought the place and I didn't change it'... not so with the stairs there.

I hate having a conscience... a lot of people would have probably already bought it, installed it, and said 'screw the code' in just the time I've taken researching it!!

Oh, and for the record, I'm not trying to circumvent the building code... I'd prefer to work within it, but for this particular job, it looks like the code is making it cost-prohibitive to do what I want to do... I'm just trying to find a simpler work-around that still meets code.

...good perspective and might i add refreshing too...:D

...you don't know how many times i get asked to install something that is wrong...but the outcome is i don't install it...:D

...to make this work in your garage you could fire rate it with 5/8" drywall at the living areas as mentioned above in the previous post...this will contain any garage fire/vapors to code, hence, your garage is now a completely seperate entity in itself...it shouldn't be that expensive and you will sleep better at night and not have to deal with the locals either...now you would be able to install your attic ladder as they listed but another bit of info you might appreciate....
....manufacturers install instructions superscede u.b.c. code...:D

Well here is my $.02 from the commercial construction side. EVERY 1 hour fire rated wall I have ever seen goes one of two ways.

a.) 1 layer 5/8" type X gyp both sides all joints firetaped and any penetrations sealed with fire caulk, and you also have to fire calk where the gyp hits the floor and deck.

b.) 2 layers 5/8" type X gyp one side stager joints fire tape finished layer same fire caulking as above applies.

I have never seen single side 1/2" gyp partition given anything more than a 30 min rating. The disign on the page you linked does nothing really as there are unsealed joints which means there can be no fire rating. The only allowable permenant penetration through a fire wall that is allowed would be a fire rated door/access panel.

Google a company called Precision Ladder LLC, they have an attic access stair that comes with a UL 2 hour fire rating.

...this is true in some instances of commercial construction if you are required for a 1hr fire rating from each side such as in mutiple tenancy or seperation from equipment etc...
....here is a quick random link...:D
http://www.awc.org/Publications/dca/dca3/index.html#Table1