I'm trying to figure out how to make it happen all together now... In our basement, we've got essentially a blank slate. The basement walls are poured (with a brick-shape finish that collects all the dust).

I'm planning to run several outlets on their own circuits (a couple will be tied into some existing circuits) and need to run coax cable, Cat-5, and in a couple spots, phone connections. I'll be separating the existing plug circuits from their existing circuits (currently they're lumped together with the basement pull-chain lights). I've got a few specific questions for someone more knowledgeable of the NEC code book than I...

First, the two plugs currently in the basement are 20A GFCIs both on the same 15A circuit. When they are replaced, do the basement plugs need to be GFCI-protected? There's no open water source (except for any flooding that might occur) so I'm wondering why they would be either 20A plugs or GFCIs in the first place? Those plugs will mostly be powering TV/VCR/Cable boxes, lamps, and small 1500 watt space heaters. The plugs will be roughly 5' down from the ceiling and 4' off the floor. (less work if we ever do get a couple feet of water in the basement) The wiring will, of course, be run in conduit down the wall to a metal box.

Second, there are a few of the outlets where I also need Coax and network connections as well. Being that they're mounted to the wall, should I:
A) Run the coax and network cables through their own conduits down the wall into the same box as the receptacles?
B) Run the coax and network cables down the wall to their own box
C) Zip tie the coax and network cables to the electrical conduit and run into the same box?

Third, What are some creative ways to deal with the wiring mess created by a cable modem, phone adapter, wireless router, and ethernet switch? (all different sizes and shapes, of course...) Currently they're on the desk in front of me, which is uber-convenient for troubleshooting, but in the new location in the basement, they could easily be placed on the other side of the wall where the computer's going to reside, leaving all the wiring under the stairs and out of site... It's an option if I can find a neater way of doing it...

Thanks, gang!

edit: A couple more thoughts:
-Do the plugs in the basement need to be GFCI protected?
-If I run 12/3 with ground, I can use the 'common neutral' trick, and 20A circuit breakers, correct?
-Do the plugs get grounded to the box first, and then the box/conduit is grounded to the wires? Does it matter?

Thanks again!

I'm trying to figure out how to make it happen all together now... In our basement, we've got essentially a blank slate. The basement walls are poured (with a brick-shape finish that collects all the dust).

I'm planning to run several outlets on their own circuits (a couple will be tied into some existing circuits) and need to run coax cable, Cat-5, and in a couple spots, phone connections. I'll be separating the existing plug circuits from their existing circuits (currently they're lumped together with the basement pull-chain lights). I've got a few specific questions for someone more knowledgeable of the NEC code book than I...

First, the two plugs currently in the basement are 20A GFCIs both on the same 15A circuit. When they are replaced, do the basement plugs need to be GFCI-protected? There's no open water source (except for any flooding that might occur) so I'm wondering why they would be either 20A plugs or GFCIs in the first place? Those plugs will mostly be powering TV/VCR/Cable boxes, lamps, and small 1500 watt space heaters. The plugs will be roughly 5' down from the ceiling and 4' off the floor. (less work if we ever do get a couple feet of water in the basement) The wiring will, of course, be run in conduit down the wall to a metal box.

Second, there are a few of the outlets where I also need Coax and network connections as well. Being that they're mounted to the wall, should I:
A) Run the coax and network cables through their own conduits down the wall into the same box as the receptacles?
B) Run the coax and network cables down the wall to their own box
C) Zip tie the coax and network cables to the electrical conduit and run into the same box?

Third, What are some creative ways to deal with the wiring mess created by a cable modem, phone adapter, wireless router, and ethernet switch? (all different sizes and shapes, of course...) Currently they're on the desk in front of me, which is uber-convenient for troubleshooting, but in the new location in the basement, they could easily be placed on the other side of the wall where the computer's going to reside, leaving all the wiring under the stairs and out of site... It's an option if I can find a neater way of doing it...

Thanks, gang!

I believe in reference to the GFCI outlets/circuits if you swap them out to non-gfci then you need to swap out the breaker too so they match but don't quote me on that. In regards to the cat5 & coax, run them apart from the 110 AC lines. If possible 12" apart. In most home applications no conduit is used however if you plan on adding additional lines it would help to run flexible raceways. If your basement is finished and you have room between the wall studs & foundation you can probably run some conduit/raceways/etc in place to hide your wiring. I'd recommend using cat5e/rg6 combo wire they come in (1) RG6 (2) Cat5E or (2) RG6 (2) Cat5E sets they run about $285 & $360 for a 500' box. Get some low voltage post-construction boxes.. They have 2 plastic clips that tighten against the wallboard when you screw the hold down screw in place.

you don't need a GFCI but there good to have, keep them and run the rest of your outlets off the load side so they are also protected. Do not run your low voltage or video cable in the same conduit or box as your a/c power this can lead to induction current in your other wires.You do not need conduit for video or low volt, but you do for 120, unless it is buried in a wall or ceiling.for a shared neutral you would need to make sure that the two breakers are on two different legs or buss-es, if not the neutral could see twice the current, don't do it just buy more 12/2. to ground the outlets first run a line5 or 6 inches to the outlet and another the same length to the box, when you bring your ground in wire nut it to both of these in every box.

sidenote on the specs, local building codes require different than federal (which are very vague). For instance, federal code says you don't need a gfci, but in my county in CO, every circuit below ground or within 10ft of a water source must be on a gfci.

You can use the coomon ground to tie a normal outlet to a GFCI

You should use 20A outlets if you are using 20amp breakers.

Could you zip tie the communication wiring to the outside of the electrical conduit, then wrap the whole mess with black convalescent tubing?

That might look pretty cool-

Thanks for the help, everyone!!...

sidenote on the specs, local building codes require different than federal (which are very vague). For instance, federal code says you don't need a gfci, but in my county in CO, every circuit below ground or within 10ft of a water source must be on a gfci.

I'll have to look into that... I know our local codes are online... Guess I've got some reading to do this afternoon. I was figuring on using them as the layout will lend itself to load-protecting them fairly easily.

for a shared neutral you would need to make sure that the two breakers are on two different legs or buss-es, if not the neutral could see twice the current, don't do it just buy more 12/2. to ground the outlets first run a line5 or 6 inches to the outlet and another the same length to the box, when you bring your ground in wire nut it to both of these in every box.

The neutral will be fine. Both circuits will draw from opposite sides of the bus... I've got some existing circuits in the house wired that way, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem with running 12/2 is that I would need to pull four wires through the conduit and into each box, leaving me with 12 wires plus the metal box ground in each box... talk about a pain to deal with!! Every box would look like a bird's nest!


You should use 20A outlets if you are using 20amp breakers.


To my (very limited) knowledge, a 20A circuit can use 15A receptacles provided there are more than one receptacle on the circuit (I've never understood that one...). Most new kitchens are wired just that way. The only time it needs to be a 20A receptacle is if there's only one receptacle on the circuit. (again, doesn't make much sense)

-Joe

In most home applications no conduit is used however if you plan on adding additional lines it would help to run flexible raceways.

Can't run romex down a bare cement wall... gotta use conduit or jacketed cable (Greenfield?) for that... Conduit's way cheaper.

I'd recommend using cat5e/rg6 combo wire they come in (1) RG6 (2) Cat5E or (2) RG6 (2) Cat5E sets they run about $285 & $360 for a 500' box. Get some low voltage post-construction boxes.. They have 2 plastic clips that tighten against the wallboard when you screw the hold down screw in place.

Already have 250' of RG6U and 250' of Cat5E left over from previous projects... Had I known about the combo wire at the time, it would have saved me a lot of work fishing wires through the house.

Thanks, gang... Should be starting this afternoon. :)

For the cat 5 and rg6 when running parallel with electrical keep them about 18" apart and cross at right angles. Use cat5 for the phone as well and use rg6 Quad shield.

The neutral will be fine. Both circuits will draw from opposite sides of the bus... I've got some existing circuits in the house wired that way, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem with running 12/2 is that I would need to pull four wires through the conduit and into each box, leaving me with 12 wires plus the metal box ground in each box... talk about a pain to deal with!! Every box would look like a bird's nest!

I wouldn't try to pull romex down conduit either, but why so many wires? are you running two separate circuits to each box? go get some spools of stranded, not as easy to pull but easier to work with when stuffing a box.I wasn't figuring on more than three wires per conduit and six per box. but if you share a neutral then that's four per conduit and eight per box

bare cement walls ahh okay.. Yeah definately need to run conduit.. Didn't hear that part. Yeah.. Get some conduit and do it right.

Some places require AFCI circuit breakers. They are Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter circuit breakers. They are used in new installations wherever the new codes require them.

I wouldn't try to pull romex down conduit either, but why so many wires? are you running two separate circuits to each box? go get some spools of stranded, not as easy to pull but easier to work with when stuffing a box.I wasn't figuring on more than three wires per conduit and six per box. but if you share a neutral then that's four per conduit and eight per box

Two words: Space Heaters. Unfortunately, barring us winning the lottery, we'll be using space heaters to break the chill down there in the wintertime when we use the space. In order to easily balance the load, I was planning to use two circuits: One circuit feeds one duplex, and one circuit feeds the other. If I pull two feeds down into the box and use the common neutral, then I don't need a junction box up at the ceiling, and it's four less connections to worry about. Pulling two pieces of 12/3 into a 3/4" conduit is not exactly difficult.

It would also allow me to install a timer on just the one circuit if I choose to do so. Then I could plug in a couple small heaters and set a timer to have them come on before I get home from work every day. By having those circuits separated, it lets me easily integrate a timer or timer switch into the system.

Some places require AFCI circuit breakers. They are Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter circuit breakers. They are used in new installations wherever the new codes require them.

To my knowledge, the AFCI requirement is only for bedrooms, and only for those municipalities that have adopted the revised NEC code book (2003?). Our township is still using the 1996 NEC regs with a page of amendments (none of which include AFCIs or GFCIs for basements).

I had to abandon the common neutral trick anyways... I decided that with the potential for basement flooding, GFCI protection was necessary. There's no way to use the common neutral trick on the load side of a pair of GFCIs. Since the GFCIs were going in the first box, which is only about 4' from the main panel, they'll all be getting 12/2 from the panel with a junction box at the ceiling. Splice in two drops to feed the two circuits, and send them down the wall. It means a few more connections and boxes, but shouldn't be a big deal.

So you are going to use GFCI circuit breakers or GFCI outlets? If you use the circuit breakers, will the lights have protection or just the outlets? Generally, in new construction, the lights, and outlets have separate circuit breakers unlike the old houses where everything in the room (or sometimes several rooms) ran off of one breaker.

So you are going to use GFCI circuit breakers or GFCI outlets? If you use the circuit breakers, will the lights have protection or just the outlets? Generally, in new construction, the lights, and outlets have separate circuit breakers unlike the old houses where everything in the room (or sometimes several rooms) ran off of one breaker.

Two GFCI outlets for the basement receptacles protecting the other eight. The two plugs on the circuit currently are both GFCI receptacles, but they're in parallel with the lights on that circuit. Those two receptacles will not be there after tomorrow; that circuit will only control the lighting.

Like I said, the existing wiring was done on the cheap... Although the house is only 5 years old, it's not up to the most current NEC codes. The township only enforces the old code, apparently... They got away with a bunch of questionable stuff... stuff I wouldn't have done myself.

Aaargh... what a pain... Nobody mentioned that it's impossible to pull four 12/2s into a 3/4" conduit... nobody makes a 4-square box with 1" knockouts, or if you have the conduit come into the side of a Handy-Box, you can't fit a GFI in there next to it... What a royal pain this is turning out to be!!

I've got all the boxes mounted... Got the wire pulled, the junctions made... Just can't get the GFIs into the small box with four 12/2's, and two conduits connected to it... just not enough room. :( Not a happy camper...

I've heard they make a 3-gang Handy-Box... gotta see if I can find one of those...
of course, with my luck, I won't be able to find a two-place cover plate for it!
-Joe

they make a box extension that will make the box deeper, you should be able to find them at lowes or menardshttp://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=114592-427-665&lpage=none

are you useing a jacketed wire?or somthing like thishttp://www.mcmaster.com/ the website will not let me send a link to a individual page ;
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