This one has me stumped...

Last night around 6:15, I drove my truck home and it started and ran fine. Parked it, came outside this morning at 7:15 to start it and go to work and...

Nothing. I turned the key and nothing (not the dome light, radio, etc.) turned on. The starter also did not click whatsoever. It was like I didn't even have a battery in there.

Undaunted, I retrieved my portable charger/starter unit from the back. Hooked it up, waited about half an hour and tried to start the car. This time I got the radio and dome lights, but the car would not turn over. I'd get a few clicks from the starter but the voltmeter would drop down so low that that would quit soon as well. I checked the voltage in the battery wires (which I have upgraded - they are not stock, they're 1/0 gauge) and it only read 6.5 volts.

I waited for my roommate to get up so he could give me a jump... Hooked his truck to mine, and the voltage measured 14.9... Let it charge the battery for a while, and tried to start the truck. Got the same result - clicking starter, working dome lights and such... We let it sit some more and it was still doing the same thing.

Finally we pulled the cables off and checked the battery voltage - 13.3 volts, but the truck would not turn over!... I am going to check it again when I get home, and I bet $5 that it's dead again and I need a new battery.

What do you guys think? This battery is only 2 years old, so I am skeptical, but what else could it be? I know cables are fine, starter must be working because it's trying to turn over, just not getting enough juice.

I had a battery that checked fine at 3 different auto stores, but wouldn't start the truck. It apparently had a bad cell but still put out the correct voltage, etc. However, if I jumped the truck it would start and just run off the alternator. Maybe you have a large short somewhere?

Try charging the battery but disconnecting your battery cables afterward. If the battery holds the charge then, you probably have a short.

I had not thought of that... Well it is charged up as of 8:00 this morning, but I left the cables on. I'll check the voltage on it when I get home this evening and if it's dead, charge it again and disconnect the cables.

If nothing was left on and it went that dead overnight, your battery is real bad. You may want to double check that nothing was on, then slow charge the battery. Even when you were reading 13.3 v, it may have only been surface voltage with no gut behind it. I would take it out and take to an auto part store that has free battery testing, they can test it under a load and tell you if anything is wrong with it.

Then again, maybe your alternator went bad yesterday and when you took it out last night, it was only using battery voltage and drained it down.

OK, that makes no since. I would slow charge the battery, get the truck to start, check alternator output voltage.

Robb

Sounds to me like you have a weak battery. A battery can show you all the voltage in the world but w/o any amperage you won't be moving anytime soon. You need to take the battery out and go to Pep Boys or the closest parts house and have them do a load test. This will tell you the state of a battery. Keep in mind that this cold weather does not help a battery. When you place the battery back in the truck be sure to clean both the terminal ends of the cables and the battery post with a wire brush.

Good Luck

sounds to me you have a weak battery and a bad starter.. ! cause if you r starter does not turn the motor when you are getting boost , it`s not normal !

Originally posted by daniel cauchon
sounds to me you have a weak battery and a bad starter.. ! cause if you r starter does not turn the motor when you are getting boost , it`s not normal !

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? I have not had any problems with starting... Up until this morning it would start up right away, no excessive clicking or anything like that.

Man, if the starter is bad too now that is going to be a real pisser. How much is a starter? I've got freezing rain outside now, no garage, and will have to fix this thing myself in the freezing cold! Damn! :(

How long did you try the jump? AKA, how long was the other battery hooked up to your? If you only had it hooked up for a few minutes, and your battery was dead-dead, it is normal to not have enough juice to crank your starter. Plus, the odds of you loosing a battery (or alternator) and a starter in the same night are pretty slim.

Robb

Solenoid maybe, should have started no problem with a boost regardless of your battery if nothing else was wrong.

That's what I was thinking. I had the battery hooked up to the portable charger for about half an hour, and that got it up to 6-7 volts... Then hooked it to the other car for 10 minutes or so, which got it to 13 volts, but still would not start the car.

I am going with either a large drain somewhere (don't know how this could happen in 12 hours all of a sudden though) or no amperage in the battery.

Originally posted by aviator
Solenoid maybe, should have started no problem with a boost regardless of your battery if nothing else was wrong.
That's not true. The battery in the automobile that is running is capable of only putting out a certain amount of amperage (especially at idle). Now when you hook that up to an extremely dead battery (you should hear the strain on the running engine). The dead battery is going to pull a lot of amperage to try to charge itself, sometimes not leaving enough to crank a starter. I have experienced this many times in my life. Just because you jump your battery from another one, does not mean yours should instantly be able to start.

Robb

Certainly would hold true depending on the amperage of the running vehicles battery and the current and voltage required to turn the starter in the other vehicle, however I've jump started a couple vehicles without batteries just to get them driveable to move them around the property. Again depends on the exact circumstance and vehicle particulars.

My nieghbors x had a similar problem and our local auto checked battery and charging system,It all checked good. Load tested batt at home, tested good at 50 amp load. But still no start. It ended up being the ground wire were it attaches to the block down by the exhast manifold. Pulled the bolt out ant wire brushed it and the block. Then put dielectric grease on face and bolted it back up. No problems since. Found it by wiggling ground wire at block connection. Its worth checking.

yeah but hold on here you guys...I Live in Quebec were the temp will go as far as -25 celcius !! that very very cold and it did happen often that my batt was only a block of ice , nothing no juice at all and plus the engine frozen like hell too ...but with only a boost without unplugging my battery it would be enough to crank the engine and start it. so believe me if you can`t crank you engine with a boost it`s something else than the batt..I would deffinitly check my starter... if you want to make sure unplug your batt before boosting it.

Last week my wife went to work on a foggy day and got out in 4 hours..She tried to start the x and nothing.She noticed she left the lights between off and parking and when she put the lights to an off position the radio went on without a key in the ignition..Also the lights were not on because the boss parked right behind here and would have seen them on..I got there and put on the jumper cables and waited about 5 minutes and it started..Ran it for a half hour and all has been fine sience..I had the battery tested at sears and they said it was good..I just hope it don't happen again..

I have a similar problem with my x. periodically, I turn the key and get a click, the lights dim and stay dim. my battery is less than 2 years old.

I believe the problem is with the battery terminals. Usually one "twist" of the wire usually solves the problem. To get my truck started, I shut the ignitition off and loosen and retighten the positive terminal on the battery. I've removed the terminals and cleaned them, which usually solves the problem for a short period

One of these days, I'm going to replace the terminals. I don't think its the ground because it's the positive terminal I usually have to mess with.

The reason why the block ground is hard to diagnose is, It only affects the starter and charging systems. When checking the alternator it will check good because it is charging and the batt. will also check good.. The block ground is there for the alternator and starter. That means as you are driving everything looks good while your battery is being drained. This will intermitantly cause high voltage readings on the guage and warm or erattic temp readings. And will not turn on check engine light. If your model uses ground straps that may also be the culprit.

This block ground thing does sound like a very good possibility... I have been noticing some odd temp readings, but attributed it to the recent changing of my heater control valve and coolant... I do remember that when I upped my cables to 1/0 gauge, I had to buy a different bolt for the ground wire that attaches to the block because for some reason the regular bolt would not go back in. Maybe the new bolt has somehow become corroded or loose, and my constant cranking trying to get the truck to start this morning is what gave me such low voltage readings before charging.

IF you still have your originals battery cables, especially on the '91-94 Ex's, change them. They rot on the inside and you will have the problems you are describing. Start with the simple (and cheap) stuff.

Nope... Got 6 month old custom 1/0 gauge cable for the power, ground, and alternator... 8 gauge was used to replace the stock small (12 gauge or so) wires on the terminals.

I had a similar problem for years
ie: battery's fine for a long time (appx 4-6mths) then just dead, then fine for a long time then dead.....eventually ending a few months later with a dead celled battery.

5 dead batteries later I found this site and did a search on this topic and found that the 1st gen X's had a common problem with a sticky fuel pump relay, replaced it (about $12) and have yet to have the problem again 12mths later

might be worth a look:)

Originally posted by morrisey0
The dead battery is going to pull a lot of amperage to try to charge itself, sometimes not leaving enough to crank a starter. I have experienced this many times in my life. Just because you jump your battery from another one, does not mean yours should instantly be able to start.

Robb

This is true, but with big enough jumper cables, I have jump started an X with a completley dead battery(buckled plates,or dead cells, no voltage at all).....

What size booster cables were you using to jump start it, 94Sport?

everyone has very good surggs. but i think you should start with the basics. your battery (you said is 2 yrs old). so start with that then go to one of the other surggs. had a problem with my battery too. would be sitting in my car waitting for my daughter to get out of school with only the radio on then would try starting the car and nothing. had to have a jumb, this haddened a few times so went to auto part store to have them check the battery out they told my it was fine. so went on, well it keep happening so i finally said i had enough and got me a new battery. getting the new battery worked. hopefully it will fix your problem too.

When I got home yesterday, after letting the fully-charged battery sit in my car for 8 hours, it was partially dead. Down to about 6 volts again. Not as bad as when it was totally dead after 13 hours, but I imagine that it would have progressed to that.

I charged up my other battery (it was at 10 volts, sitting in my basement) overnight and put it in this morning, and the same thing happened. Right after I connected the cables, the thing was DRAINED. Down to about 6 volts again. Of course, the truck still would not start.

How would I diagnose a sticky fuel pump relay? Where is it located? I need to get this thing fixed this weekend. Even if it turns out that the fuel pump relay is ok, I might as well replace it since it is probably 10 years old.

EDIT: I checked the ground points for the battery cables last night and they are fine. I have yet to check the starter, but am not sure that a loose/corroded starter connection would even drain a battery, would it?

OK, at this point your battery is incapable of holding a charge or you have a pretty good sized drain on the battery. To check for a drain put the battery in, hook up the ground side, then put an amp meter between the positive cable and the positive terminal of the battery. I am not sure what an X is supposed to be with nothing on, but it should be well under a 1/2 amp. If you are draining the battery that quick, you should be pulling much more than that.
Once again tho, just because your battery is showing a respectable voltage does not mean it is good. It can simply be surface voltage.

Robb

Originally posted by morrisey0
OK, at this point your battery is incapable of holding a charge or you have a pretty good sized drain on the battery. To check for a drain put the battery in, hook up the ground side, then put an amp meter between the positive cable and the positive terminal of the battery. I am not sure what an X is supposed to be with nothing on, but it should be well under a 1/2 amp. If you are draining the battery that quick, you should be pulling much more than that.

Thanks Robb, I had no idea how to go about checking for a drain! Good thing I bought a multimeter a while back... It has really come in handy. I will see what I can figure out today after work. It is warmer outside today and not raining so I can work on the truck.

For the fuel pump relay problem: When I turn the ignition on, I get a distinctive humming noise from somewhere within the engine compartment. This is the fuel pump running, right? So the relay should be good?

This sounds like what I went through a few months ago..

I charged the battery.. let it sit in the battery tray with no cable attached.. and by morning it was down to 6 volts or less.. Thats when I knew it was dead.. The battery places kept saying it was good.. I finally got ot the point where I told them I would buy a battery IF they would charge this one.. and let it sit over night..

IF I came back the next day and the battery was drained then they would give me my money back for the new battery.. if it was still good.. I would just keep the new battery..

They agreed.. and I came by the next day in teh afternoon and sure enough.. the battery was sitting at 6 volts.. I had them check the battery when I dropped it off.. (it read good).. then we set it off in a corner.. (not on the charger)..

Back to testing for a drain.. They kept telling me I had a drain.. so I hooked up my DVM.. and put it on DC amps.. (it will read up to 10 amps).. and connected it between the negative post of the battery and the negative cable..

when I first connect it, it draws about .25 amps... after about 5-10 seconds (at the most).. it drops down to .07 amps... The initial draw was the capaciters throoughout the truck (including amplifiers)...

If your drawing .1 or so amps at the most.. you don't have a bad drain in the truck.. to me it does sound like the battery.. Just charge it up.. (completly).. and then disconnect it for a day (24 hours).. and see what the voltage is then... Sounds like it just won't hold a charge..

~Mark

The fuel pump relay is the one that is right on the passenger side of the engine compartment, right? I guess since it only costs $10.99, I will pick one up. This second battery that I put in today was also a few years old and had been run down before. I suppose it is entirely possible that both of my batteries were old enough and crappy enough to not be able to start the truck. I will just bite the bullet and get a new battery.
If the battery is old and crappy, and you try to jump it with another running engine's battery, would it still be possible that your dead battery would draw so much current that you still would not be able to start the truck?

It depends on your jumper cables....

The cables I use in the truck are 2 gauge wire.. and 20 feet long.. I have jumped vehicles (with chevy 350) with a competly dead battery... no problem...

If I use my small cables (8 gauge wire).. I usually have to let it sit a few minutes before I start it..

~Mark

These were some cheap cables, probably 8 gauge... They have always worked before though.

The average battery has about 70 amp hours. I have taken a completely discharged battery(<1V) and charged it for an hour and a half on a 5 amp charger and been able to start an Explorer. Keep in mind that a fully discharged battery takes 15 minutes before it even starts drawing current. So if a battery has 10 amp hours of capacity, which isn't much, it should start a car. You have to put about 50% more amp hours in when you charge a battery. Batteries should always be tested under load. Headlights draw about 13A. With the headlights on, engine off, and see more than a 1/2 volt drop after a half hour, the battery is bad or it was never fully charged. Measure voltage at the battery posts, not the connectors. That will tell you if you have a loss of voltage from the wires and connectors. Battery should easily be able to tolerate loads of 1 amp over night and still start.

Well chalk this one up to the quirkiness of our Explorers...

Last night I checked for a drain on the battery... Set the multimeter to 200 mA DC, and got a reading of 1.89, which I assume means like .00000189 Amps, correct? (No drain). So I took the battery out... I went inside and got my other battery, and lo and behold, it had a 3 year free replacement warranty and I still had the receipt! (The battery was only 14 months old.) I Took it to Wal*Mart, got a new battery, put it in the truck and it started right up.

How my original battery died overnight with no drain on it is beyond me. Oh well.

How my original battery died overnight with no drain on it is beyond me. Oh well.
Just to be safe, I would keep that portable charger fully charged in the back still. But it is not too uncommon for battery cells to short out or go bad for whatever reason. I hope that was your only problem, and hell, it only cost you a new battery.
Congrats

Robb

Yeah the charger is fully charged and ready to go... This thing has been breaking so often recently, I've amassed almost everything you could need to fix any basic problem road-side, and it's all in the back.

The new battery was free! :) Couldn't get any better than that. I actually made $.02 on the deal because of the way the service desk girl (she was cute, but I don't think she was too bright) made the exchange. All it cost was the 20 minute ride to and from Wal*Mart in my roommate's truck! :D