Hello...again :). I am getting closer to D-day with an auto purchase. I have thought about a 2000 or 2001 Chevy impala. I was curious what you guys thought about the Impala.
I also was curious which you guys would choose between a 1998 or 1999 Ford Explorer. Safety and reliablity are always a huge factor. Thanks :) :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Go with the Impala. I hate Explorers.

Chevy all the way. Gotta be a good car because I never owned one. ;)

hah thanks guys :) for some reason i smell some reverse pyschology!

Moreso I think that you're comparing apples to oranges. Its kind of like saying, what should I buy, an oven mitt or a lawn chair? Both are totally different products designed to do totally different things. If you're looking forward to lots of relaxing days in the yard, then the oven mitt is going to dissapoint you isn't it? If you're looking to keep you hand from getting burned, then the lawn chair is equally useless.

My point is, if you're just looking to have a nice car to run around with on the street, then get the Impala, save yourself the gas, repair, and insurance costs. If you want the utility of an SUV, have an interest in offroading then go for the Explorer.

Its useless to compare them though.

Originally posted by Stephen
My point is, if you're just looking to have a nice car to run around with on the street, then get the Impala, save yourself the gas, repair, and insurance costs. If you want the utility of an SUV, have an interest in offroading then go for the Explorer.

It's not like the Impala is the most reliable vehicle in the world though, or that they get great mileage either :rolleyes:

as a known GM fan of this board, i will go ahead and say the Impala is crap. sorry, but i have never really liked any General Motors late model sedans. they had the right idea with the Impala SS, but used the wrong car. rear drive, LT-1 motor, big wheels, "sport" suspension, oh yes how yummy. then they stuck it in a 24 ft. Crown Line. fit and finish is barely better than stuff i could make at home. even though i love F bodies, even i will admit its pretty sh!tty to have to weld on subframe connectors to a new car to keep the interior from rattling. get an Explorer.

and Stephen is right, you are comparing apples and oranges. what do you want, a car or a sport ute?

Originally posted by Alec
It's not like the Impala is the most reliable vehicle in the world though, or that they get great mileage either :rolleyes:

Mileage is better than the Explorer though.

I do agree, you can do a lot better than the Impala. Its basically throw away GM garbage. Its the Lumina of the next century lol.

Originally posted by james t
as a known GM fan of this board, i will go ahead and say the Impala is crap. sorry, but i have never really liked any General Motors late model sedans. they had the right idea with the Impala SS, but used the wrong car. rear drive, LT-1 motor, big wheels, "sport" suspension, oh yes how yummy. then they stuck it in a 24 ft. Crown Line. fit and finish is barely better than stuff i could make at home. even though i love F bodies, even i will admit its pretty sh!tty to have to weld on subframe connectors to a new car to keep the interior from rattling. get an Explorer.

and Stephen is right, you are comparing apples and oranges. what do you want, a car or a sport ute?
Impala is a B-Body I thought. I KNOW the F-body is just the Camaro and Firebird, so I don't know what you mean.

I will agree that most GM cars are junk in terms of suspension. I should know, my mom had a Buick Century ;) Even with all highway miles, it fell apart after 20K miles. The tranny, A/C, and struts didn't make it... :mad:

Go Ford the whole way, I have never had the best of luck with GM, though even they beat the crud out of Toyotas (especially the 4Runner!!!!!!!!) or other foreign cars. Either way, get a taurus with the 24-valve DOHC, those things are peppy :eek: or the Explorer. It seems to me that the explorer is probably the most useful, especially if you like four wheeling- but then again, I am biassed to the X......stupid 4Runner :rolleyes:
OK I'm done now with my rant.

You want a nice sedan, go for the Tauras. We've had at least one all the time since the 80s, whether it be sedan or station wagon and always got decent trade-in for the next one.

The only people I have seen driving new Impala's have been old people and police officers:D


I might be partial to Explorers for some reason though....

I second Crankcase on that one, I hardly ever see anyone under 65 in one

haha. Nice replys. Yeah im not sure if i want an oven mitt or a lawn chair. Do you guys know other message boards that are about cars in general. My main concern after this accident is Safety. Then the next thing to consider in cars is reliability. For some DAMNED reason :rolleyes:, i cannot find one that is both. I love the look and what not of the EX. but i do not want to embrace all the problems. Every review i read is like a nightmire of costly repairs. And then on some of the safe cars, mostly american, i've researched they're not reliable either. Why is it that in 2003, there are still a lot of shody American cars? You think they would have learned their lessons from the imports...guess not.:redexp: :eek:

My bosses wife has a Impala, and she is only about 58 or 59 I think.

I say get the Impala, then BL and maybe a frame transplant ala lifted Camero. I'm sure you could get 35" tires under one. I haven't seen any lifted Impalas yet, you could have the first one.




Of course I'm kidding, I really would have a hard time considering a GM product seriously

Originally posted by Majisto
Impala is a B-Body I thought. I KNOW the F-body is just the Camaro and Firebird, so I don't know what you mean. i was just refering to GM cars in general. the F body reference was just to show that even the GM cars I like are kinda crappy.

I used to have a 1965 Chevy Imapla. Oh I miss that car SO MUCH.

The 94-96 Impala was one bad a$$ car.

The new one is just a grocery getter.

Hey Stephen, look out your window. The lawn chair would be worthless today. I'll take the oven mitt

my .02

Impala is a grocery getter or cop car. You drive one for a while and the seats are not the best.

Originally posted by DaHeinah
Go Ford the whole way, I have never had the best of luck with GM, though even they beat the crud out of Toyotas (especially the 4Runner!!!!!!!!) or other foreign cars.

:rolleyes:

I suppose this would be the time to post the article I found where Bill Ford gives Toyota the nod for having a superior product than their own? I was just going to PM it to Majisto as a gloating end to a personal argument ( ;) ) but I suppose I'll post it here.

I'll find it.

I'm not saying we all can't have opinions, we certainly can. You can say you prefer one car maker to another, for any reason, whether or not that opinion has any basis in fact whatsoever. Saying a particular carmaker "beats the crap out of another" especially when all factual industry evidence points the other way is not only detrimental to any realistic discussion between car folks, its childish.

If you're looking for cheap, mostly reliable transportation then I agree, its best to look at a vehicle like the Taurus. Its reasonably comfortable, reasonably reliable, and very affordable used due to poor resale. If you're just looking for a sedan, then I'd go that route myself. If you really do want an affordable used SUV, then I would reccomend the Explorer too.

I dont think there's any question the Japanese cars are more reliable over the long haul, but the values of them used will put them out of your projected price range.

Look for low miles in whatever you buy, keep us posted!

Originally posted by MONMIX
I used to have a 1965 Chevy Imapla. Oh I miss that car SO MUCH.

The 94-96 Impala was one bad a$$ car.

The new one is just a grocery getter.

Hey Stephen, look out your window. The lawn chair would be worthless today. I'll take the oven mitt

Actually kind of interesting. I purchased the Sequoia back in 2001 because my business car is leased, and mileage was a consideration, plus the Lexus is dismal in the snow, and my son drove the Explorer so it wasn't always available for me. I bought the Sequoia to be a trip vehicle, and for use in snow when I needed it. Now, my company owns my car, and mileage is no longer an issue, and we never really get any snow around here anymore, I was considering selling the Sequoia when my office replaces my car in July, and just getting another big luxury car like the LS that I can ferry people in, and using it for trips. Maybe something with an AWD for the one or two inches of snow we may get here and there.

Boy, was I glad I didnt come to that decision LAST summer! I think I'll just hang onto the big SUV for incidental use ;)

Originally posted by Stephen
Actually kind of interesting. I purchased the Sequoia back in 2001 because my business car is leased, and mileage was a consideration, plus the Lexus is dismal in the snow, and my son drove the Explorer so it wasn't always available for me. I bought the Sequoia to be a trip vehicle, and for use in snow when I needed it. Now, my company owns my car, and mileage is no longer an issue, and we never really get any snow around here anymore, I was considering selling the Sequoia when my office replaces my car in July, and just getting another big luxury car like the LS that I can ferry people in, and using it for trips. Maybe something with an AWD for the one or two inches of snow we may get here and there.

Boy, was I glad I didnt come to that decision LAST summer! I think I'll just hang onto the big SUV for incidental use ;)
The Duratec 24V V-6 in the Taurus is a pretty peppy little engine. Ask me about Taurii, I own one :D Btw, it's VERY safe! Always has and always will be 5-star crash test rated, and the Duratec will smoke any sedan in its price range.

We picked up this Taurus SE with power everything, but the weaker "Vulcan" V-6 with 38K miles on it for $8,000 in mint condition :eek: Do that with a Honda or Toyota.

Oh you can't, I agree. If you want the best resale value the Taurus is the winner.

I'm still looking for the CNN article, I read it and thought instantly of you :p

Here ya go:

http://money.cnn.com/2003/02/13/pf/....reut/index.htm

Apologize, this is the correct link:

http://money.cnn.com/2003/02/13/pf/autos/bc.autos.ford.toyota.reut/index.htm

And it wasn't Bill Ford, it was Jim O'Connor director of sales and marketing.

I know Stephen, i've seen it before...I was about to charge you of blasphemy for accusing Bill of saying how the Taurus is inferior to the Toys. I do have to agree about Ford quality being lower than Toyota. My friend's Camry is rock solid, but I can't see justifying spending the extra money for a Toyota over a Ford. His Camry also has its own share of problems including an incredibly weak suspension. Why can't Toyota fix the "clunk" coming from the control arms?

But I can honsetly say, I love this Taurus, and I wouldn't give it up for a Camry. Ford just needs to do a re-design of the AX4N tranny and give us more options in the car. It's a great platform, but it needs drivetrain and options work.

The new impala is nice
if your 5,7 with double d's.

Actually with all due respect, I happen to have previously owned a '93 4Runner with about 73,000 miles. For them being so much superior to American cars, I ended up putting about $$6,000 just for repairs. First the water pump, then the alternator, then the transmission... I now have a '92 Explorer and have no problems, and it has 120,000 miles! ALso, I did a search for when Bill Ford called the 4Runner so wonderful, I didn't find it. To call me childish over hating my old Toyota is simply unjust and my insults toward the manufacturer are based on experience. If you like Toyotas, all the more power to you, but don't take offense when someone disagrees.

Originally posted by Majisto
I know Stephen, i've seen it before

Darn, and I was all excited too ;)

DaHania,

You didnt offend me, don't worry ;)

My Explorer has cost me almost $9,000 in unscheduled repairs over its operating life. Do I run around saying "Japanese cars rule American cars, yeah yeah yeah!" no, I don't. It is my opinion that one the whole, Japanese automakers put out a more reliable product than American or German automakers. This is also based in experience, I've had many Fords in my life, not one that stayed with me over 2 years didn't suffer some sort of massive failure of a large scale mechanical component. On my Lincolns it was the air ride, on the Explorer, the transmission, the transfer case, the front suspension, the braking system, the charging system...it goes on and on. I currently own two Toyotas, a Lexus with 130,000 miles that has never seen a shop for more than maintenance, and a Sequoia with 60,000 as trouble free miles. My sister has owned at least one Toyota since 1985, and none of them have ever seen massive repairs. All of the top carmakers on the initial quality survey and on the 5 year dependability survey are Japanese. Thats my experience.

Yours differs, and thats perfectly fine. That different experience has clouded your view of not only one make of car, but all cars coming from an entire country. THATS what I take issue with as an automotive enthusiast.

As a car "nut" and someone who has spent a lifetime of interest and energy into understanding cars, understanding the auto industry, and watching how different carmakers act and react in such a demanding and growth oriented industry it is...distressing for me to see someone who has so totally closed themselves off to an entire sector of the auto industry. People who really know cars, really know the industry and have a good understanding don't say things like "this car company rules, this car company sucks", that shows ignorance. Real car people are open to new ideas, and don't bias themselves. These people understand that no one car company is really "better" than the other, each excells, and lacks in different areas. In different times different companies are on the leading edge, and its my opinion that we've definately been riding a Japanese wave of them offering the cars that the competition has to live up to. Do I think that wave will change? Yes. In fact I think its already beginning to change. American automakers are more and more figuring out where its at, the Germans are dropping pricing and upping quality. Its tough out there.

A great example are Majisto and I. We don't see eye to eye on the whole whats more reliable than what situation, however I will yield to him that he his most definately a true Auto enthusiast, he knows his stuff, and never once have I felt that any of our debates have been unequal.

I didnt call you childish, nor did I call your hatred of your Toyota childish. I did however call your statement that all Toyotas were inferior vehicles just because of your one time, limited experience, a childish one. Someone who really knows what they're talking about and is interested in a debate and exchange of opinions doesn't make a statement like that.

My opinion would be, that as a car enthusiast, you have a lot to learn.

Originally posted by Stephen
Darn, and I was all excited too ;)

DaHania,

You didnt offend me, don't worry ;)

My Explorer has cost me almost $9,000 in unscheduled repairs over its operating life. Do I run around saying "Japanese cars rule American cars, yeah yeah yeah!" no, I don't. It is my opinion that one the whole, Japanese automakers put out a more reliable product than American or German automakers. This is also based in experience, I've had many Fords in my life, not one that stayed with me over 2 years didn't suffer some sort of massive failure of a large scale mechanical component. On my Lincolns it was the air ride, on the Explorer, the transmission, the transfer case, the front suspension, the braking system, the charging system...it goes on and on. I currently own two Toyotas, a Lexus with 130,000 miles that has never seen a shop for more than maintenance, and a Sequoia with 60,000 as trouble free miles. My sister has owned at least one Toyota since 1985, and none of them have ever seen massive repairs. All of the top carmakers on the initial quality survey and on the 5 year dependability survey are Japanese. Thats my experience.

Yours differs, and thats perfectly fine. That different experience has clouded your view of not only one make of car, but all cars coming from an entire country. THATS what I take issue with as an automotive enthusiast.

As a car "nut" and someone who has spent a lifetime of interest and energy into understanding cars, understanding the auto industry, and watching how different carmakers act and react in such a demanding and growth oriented industry it is...distressing for me to see someone who has so totally closed themselves off to an entire sector of the auto industry. People who really know cars, really know the industry and have a good understanding don't say things like "this car company rules, this car company sucks", that shows ignorance. Real car people are open to new ideas, and don't bias themselves. These people understand that no one car company is really "better" than the other, each excells, and lacks in different areas. In different times different companies are on the leading edge, and its my opinion that we've definately been riding a Japanese wave of them offering the cars that the competition has to live up to. Do I think that wave will change? Yes. In fact I think its already beginning to change. American automakers are more and more figuring out where its at, the Germans are dropping pricing and upping quality. Its tough out there.

A great example are Majisto and I. We don't see eye to eye on the whole whats more reliable than what situation, however I will yield to him that he his most definately a true Auto enthusiast, he knows his stuff, and never once have I felt that any of our debates have been unequal.

I didnt call you childish, nor did I call your hatred of your Toyota childish. I did however call your statement that all Toyotas were inferior vehicles just because of your one time, limited experience, a childish one. Someone who really knows what they're talking about and is interested in a debate and exchange of opinions doesn't make a statement like that.

My opinion would be, that as a car enthusiast, you have a lot to learn.
I will admit that I have a lot to learn about cars seeing as how I am only seventeen, and only started to like cars about two years ago. Growing up I didn't like the combustion engine believe it or not ;)

I really do have to give in to Toyota's quality, but I will stand my ground against most of the other Japanese car-makers. In terms of Japanese car-makers and experience i've had with them I will rank them in quality from lowest to highest :

Mitsubishi, Mazda, Nissan, Honda, Toyota

I don't think anything below Toyota is really a better bargain than your typical Ford vehicle, but Toyotas have very superior build quality, I just don't like the spartanish interior they generally have to them. I just liked the Taurus better than the Camry. Now when we start going into Lexus...that SC430 is a nice vehicle. :D

Originally posted by Majisto
I will admit that I have a lot to learn about cars seeing as how I am only seventeen, and only started to like cars about two years ago. Growing up I didn't like the combustion engine believe it or not ;)


Age has very little to do with it. You've got the basics down, just keep up on the objectivity and you'll be fine ;)

As a matter of fact when I bought my Ex I was actually shopping for a 2000 and newer 4-Runner. COULD NOT find one with resonable milage for less than $25,000.00
It was unreal. I am a Toyota fan. Having gone just shy of 200,000 in one and my dads going 225,000. Zero maintainance other than oil an an odd and end. My dads motor purred like a kitten, just the body and frame went to pot. I know of a guy with just over 300,000 on his Camery. No doubt Toyota builds a runnin motor. Toyota's reliability can not be argued.

Yeah, Stephen, I doubt we will see another snow fall like this one any time soon. We came in second in the record books to a snow fall in 1927 which was 29 inches.

Originally posted by MONMIX
No doubt Toyota builds a runnin motor. Toyota's reliability can not be argued. ill agree there. my wife's car is a 92 MR2, with 150k+ on the odometer. while it has been plagued with electrical problems, and certain aspects of the car are falling apart, the motor uses NO oil between oil changes. it runs like a swiss watch. i did a compression test on it last year, and it was on the high side of "in spec."

But then I know a friend whose Camry's motor gave up the ghost. It had about 140K miles on it though, so maybe that's why ;)

Was it oil sludging perhaps?

I must say(as much as I hate to:rolleyes:) that my hat is off to ToYoMoCo. My friends '86 4-Runner has 230,000 miles on it and the only thing that has stopped working was the water pump last year. Even as much crap he puts that poor little 4-Cylinder (it is lifted with 33's) through it's still going strong.

Every body is praising the old Toyo stuff, but how about the new stuff? I saw such disturbing things at the wheel plant htat soured me on Toyo's forever...

I haven't seen any decline in the dependability or initial quality surveys that would lead me to believe things have become any different.

What kind of things did you see?

Originally posted by sodjer6
I must say(as much as I hate to:rolleyes:) that my hat is off to ToYoMoCo. My friends '86 4-Runner has 230,000 miles on it and the only thing that has stopped working was the water pump last year. Even as much crap he puts that poor little 4-Cylinder (it is lifted with 33's) through it's still going strong.

That particular engine series (20R, 22R, 22RE (fuel inj version) etc) is legendary for reliability.

My dad had two different 79 Toyota pickups that each went past 180k with no problems and no work other than tuneups and oil changes. The second one sounded literally like the body was coming apart at freeway speeds, but the engine ran like a watch.

My 82 Toyota pickup started smoking with less than 100k. The problem was a broken valve guide on one of the exhaust valves. When I pulled the head, the cylinder walls looked like new, you could see the cross hatching from the original factory machining. Put it back together and it ran like new.

I also knew a woman with a Celica that had the 20R engine. She had about 280K and she was the type that only fixed things when she had to. I doubt that the car got regular maintenance and it was starting to show, but the thing was still running but starting to make some nasty noises.

These cars and trucks are very popular in California because rust is not an issue. So they will last a very long time.

Originally posted by dogfriend

These cars and trucks are very popular in California because rust is not an issue. So they will last a very long time.

They resist rust just as well as any other type of car, at least they have for the past 15-20 years.

Originally posted by Stephen
They resist rust just as well as any other type of car, at least they have for the past 15-20 years.

I wasn't trying to imply that they were any better or any worse than another brand when it comes to rust resistance.

To clarify my comment, it does not do much good in some parts of the country (i.e. Buffalo, Detroit, etc) to have an engine that will last for 15 years when the body of the car will only last about 10 because of rust.

In most parts of California, and particularly the central valley of California, cars will last indefinately as long as you can keep them running. Therefore, it is not uncommon to see 1978 Toyota trucks still being used daily because the engines are still viable 25 years later.

When visiting my GF's family outside of Buffalo, it is rare to see any car older than about 15yrs old because the winter conditions are so harsh.

My opinion is that the older (70's and 80's) Toyotas are not as good as the current vehicles with respect to rust resistance because the body panel thickness is less than the current standards (and yes I owned an 82, and yes it had a small amount of rust).

I would expect that the newer models are no worse and no better than the average newer vehicle. All of the manufacturers have improved rust resistance from the 70's and 80's standards.

I gotcha now, sorry about that I did misunderstood. I also do agree that the late 70 and 80s Toyotas did have a pretty serious rust problem when compared to the domestic competition from those eras. Not a problem anymore though.

Originally posted by Stephen
I haven't seen any decline in the dependability or initial quality surveys that would lead me to believe things have become any different.

What kind of things did you see?

Well, I worked in the wheel plant that made all the aluminum wheels for Toyotas.

At first, the wheels looked great, and were being inspected in detail.....then within a year, to increase production, cracks on the backs of the wheels were being hidden by grinding over the crack with a dremel like grinder.

Small holes in the back were filled with metal filler!!!
I would not want my wheel to have any sort of filler in them.....

And then the head generals in charge told the inspectors to basically"close their eyes" while inspecting, and removed the inspectors that threw out too many wheels, and replaced them with people willing to sacrifice quality to move themselves up in the company.....

It got so bad that the "Generals" told the inspectors to cut their employee numbers off their rubber inspection stamps, so if there was a problem down the road, they couldn't be blamed.......:(
If you have a Toyo aluminium wheel, and have the tire off the rim, look for " MADE IN CANADA" satmped in between the beads...it may or may not have an employee number....

So, as a result, the daily totals went from 800, to 1200 good wheels....that means that many more bad wheels were not being inspected properly...:mad:

So, yeah, I can imagine what the other plants do...:eek:

Wow, did you ever think to notify Toyota? They take quality control very seriously at the corporate level.

Originally posted by Stephen
Was it oil sludging perhaps?
No, it was a 4-cylinder model so no oil sludging problem, it was just dead. But there was a problem with oil leaking, because the oil light came on...hmm.

Crankcase- your story is rather shocking. all this trouble over wheels? did they ever even try to adress the issues that made them crack in the first place?

Its shocking but its not unheard of. A lot of times independently run plants for components like that get run by someone who cars more about productivity than he does quality. Thats why I asked if he'd contacted Toyota corporate about that, because I'm sure they'd be interested.