What are some of your opinions guys... I like the fact that they're fairly easy to come by, and already the correct width for the X (well basically anyway)....

BTW, this is for the front... Something to hopefully replace my IFS...

Which one? The reverse TTB D35, or the standard SLA D35?

Solid Axle... I'm guessing they're from the Jeeps from what I understand...

The D30 is a front Jeep axle. I think the Jeep D35 is a weak rear.

The high pinion (reverse cut) D30 is a decent axle IMO. Many here will disagree with that.

Advantages:
- close to stock X width (it is about 2" wider total)
- already has disc brakes
- same wheel bolt pattern as X
- cheap and available
- lots of aftermarket support

Disadvantages:
- max tire size is about a 35" (I would upgrade the axle shafts to even do that)
- some come with a troublesome vaccum disconnect system (this is eliminated with the upgraded axle shafts)
- lowest ring and pinion ratio to safely run is 4.56 (another reason to max out at 35" tire)
- no locking hubs (vacuum discnnect axle shaft)
- axle tubes are smaller and not as strong as larger Danas

Anyone else have any opinions???

Definitely the D35 rears are weak!
I've been witness to one breaking an axle shaft with only 33" tires and a Powertrax locker. Luckily the guy was smart enough to have spare axle shafts.

Don't know about the fronts though.
I just don't understand why anybody wants to throw less than a D44 under the front of an Explorer.

Okay, I've edited my first post hopefully that explains it more... I probably look like a dumbass, but hey if I don't know I have to ask right...

BTW, the reason for possibly going with less than a D44 is $$$$....

Dana 30 ring, pinions and carriers are TINY!!

I have seen side by side comparison pictures of the D44, D35, D30, and D28, but I could only find this comparison of the D-35 to the D-28. All I can say is the D-44 is considerably larger than the D-35 and the D-30 is almost as small as the D-28. I'm comparingi riing and pinion and carrier sizes.

Like Rick said... Dana 30 ring and pinion and carriers are TINY. They really dont hold up to much abuse. This is what happens when you try to run a 33" tire on a D30 under an Explorer. And this diff is open. No lockers!

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/pef03eb6134e65133621d5adcebdaf921/fbd8b4d2.jpg

See how thin the carrier is where it is sheared in half. If you stick a locker in there you increase the amount of torque applied to the carrier and a break like that becomes even more likely. Sometimes it's less expensive to do it right the first time rather than repeatedly upgrading.

Hammer from the site lives here in Phoenix. He is bringing his Ex to FST for a SAS. He wants to copy mine and asked what I would do differently if I were to do it again. I told him the only thing I would change is swap the D-44 for a D-60.

Going to a 60 gives you a huge improvment in strength since the steering knuckles, ball joints, U-joints axle shafts and of course ring and pinion are massive compared to a D-44 or anything less.

Thing is... even with a $6000 built to the hilt 60 you can still manage to break it if you try hard enough;)

Dosen't sound like there are a whole lot of options out there...

I don't think a lot of people consider the fact that all the ratings they give for d30's are in jeeps. generally cherokees or wranglers, which are both lighter than an explorer. if you put a 30 in an explorer which is a heavier truck all those ratings are gonna be lower. you're going to be alot more likely to break d30 parts on an explorer as opposed to on a jeep. If you're looking for a d44, muskrat is selling one here on the board its a d44 out of an EB with 79 knuckles and disk brakes. everything in it is pretty much new, there is a thread on it around here somewhere.

Right now I'm looking at options... I haven't moved over to buying mode yet... Thanks for the heads up though...

Heath the thing is, the D30 has the same U-joint as a D44 and the high pinion XJ or YJ axle is as strong as a D44 low pinion. If you are worried about the carrier just get rid of it. I would go with a locker that just replaces it all together ie: ARB, Detroit. The D44 is only rated to 35" tires also. I would like to see a little more in the way of axle housing size but for the most part these are pretty good axles. I have seen these little axles take some major poundings and survive. My old boss used his in rock crawling comps for about 4 yrs before it broke. It is all in how you drive on it. You can also take it one step more and put lock out hubs on it and that helps a lot too.

BTW: Can you really see your self putting 37's or larger on a second gen? Not to be facetious or any thing. :)

I love my D30. Now i just keep from breaking my track bar i'd be okay! I've had mine on the trails a few times now and have not seen a problem. And i'm running 35's, 4.56's, and a locker. I love it. I abused it on some of the rocks down in Tellico a couple of months ago with some of the guys here on the boards. I was worried too about the strength, but like hvac man said, it's have you drive. I'm not balls to the wall when it comes to rocks, but i do what i need to do to get over it.

As for the vacuum thingy, i didn't buy shafts (yet) to replace the stock ones and i just rigged the vacuum thing to always be locked. Nothing wrong with doing it like this, the gear that locks the shafts together when it's engaged is a good chunk of metal, so i'm not worried about it either.

All i all i think the D30 is a good choice for an Explorer. Of course i'll probably get flamed for saying that:D , but that's okay!

Oh yeah and the newer D30's don't have the split axle so you wont have to worry about the vacuum disco. I bought a brand new D30 LP off of a TJ, no miles also increases strength. :)

Originally posted by JoshC
All i all i think the D30 is a good choice for an Explorer. Of course i'll probably get flamed for saying that:D , but that's okay!

Well, you asked for it.

Originally posted by JoshC
I abused it on some of the rocks down in Tellico a couple of months ago with some of the guys here on the boards.

Did you go back to Tellico after I left there? I sure seem to remember you taking your truck on the easy trails with the rest of the 'stocker' group. If that is the extent of your 'abuse' then sure, a d30 is all you need.

The dana 44 shafts have 3 more splines per shaft. Don't forget the thicker tubes, bigger spindles, bigger tie rod ends, bigger brakes, and bigger bearings. You can't run high steer on a dana 30 without d44 knuckles being swapped on. Anything above a 4.56 ring gear is extremely weak. You're going to spend a lot of money upgrading the d30 to where you need it to be, with alloy shafts, ctms, manual hub conversion, full case locker, etc., but you are still going to have all of these issues.

Dana 44 (31 spline) on the left Dana 30 (28 spline) on the right
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=337333

Dana 44 from an EB is pretty easy to come by. Put a wanted add on pirate and you will get some hits. Its is only about 1.5" longer than the rear axle.
If you want something really nice get a dana 44 HP from a 70s ford truck and cut it down to size.

The D44 is only rated to 35" tires also.

Actually last I read it is rated to a 37" same as our rear 8.8.

Even Rick is recommending going to D60. Because, from experience, he knows that your offroading ambition starts off small but the bug will probably bite and you keep wanting to do harder stuff and need to go bigger and stronger. So, why spend a little bit of money in the beginning, then have to spend a lot more later when you want ot go bigger?

As far as you JoshC's truck is concerned, time will tell.

He may defy the sceptics. I'm pretty sure even the CoryL, the guy who built, JoshC's frontend doesn't recommend the D30 for 35" tires, but he gave the customer what he wanted.

I'm still defying a few people on this board for running 35" tires on an IFS frontend. A few people on here have said that 35" tires on the 2nd Gen X's IFS will cause wheel bearing problems and such. Knock on wood, I'm still running on my factory original wheel bearings and ball joints. And I have been running on 35" tires for 40K miles. My truck has 70K total miles. I may have changed a couple of CV joints, but that's to be expected with a Powertrax locker in the front. :D

Peace!

I'm not looking to upgrade the stock D30 in anyway to begin with... Other than maybe a locker and gears... I'm sure those can be sold again to a jeeper if the axle breaks... Other than that I'm basically just looking to throw it under the truck...

Originally posted by Heath
I'm not looking to upgrade the stock D30 in anyway to begin with... Other than maybe a locker and gears... I'm sure those can be sold again to a jeeper if the axle breaks... Other than that I'm basically just looking to throw it under the truck...

why not look for something more permanent to throw under the truck and save some money in the long run?

Taxman had the right idea from the begining, I wish I could have put my truck down for a few months and did a swap like his, I thiink his truck will hold up the best out of all the swaps that were going on at the same time

Personally with the use I would put my Explorer through I would go with nothing less then a D44 or D60 the only reason I am not going with a D60 up front is I dont have that kind of money to build a D60. at this time and I still drive the Explorer back and forth from the trail. so the 44 is fine for what I plan to do.

Originally posted by Muskrat
Taxman had the right idea from the begining, I wish I could have put my truck down for a few months and did a swap like his, I thiink his truck will hold up the best out of all the swaps that were going on at the same time

Thanks for the compliment.;) I don't know if it is the best one done, thats saying alot. Cory is a much better welder/fabricator than I and is much more knowledgeable about this stuff, but my trac bar seemed to hold up well (no offense Josh, I would have used the same bracket you did) but taking it down and not rushing it is the only way to go. That is why I didn't do it last summer when I did the superlift, didn't have anything else to drive at the time. I too would have gone with a hp 60 if I had the funds, but I think the 44 will last me for years to come. 35s fit nice ont eh explorer and can be stuffed without much rubbing. ANd with that short wheel base I wouldn't want to go much larger of a tire. The 44 is a strong axle and should handle the abuse I am gonna give it very well. But only time will tell.

Besides all that. 44 parts are cheap and all over the place (as are the 30 parts, but the 44 is much stronger or else dana wouldn't have made both.)

Yes you are right Randal i did take my truck on the easy trails. But if i remeber right you weren't with us so you didn't see what we did. I choose to stick with the other guys for 2 reasons, 1 my brother was on his first trip out with his truck, and 2 this was the first real test i'd had for my explorer since my swap. I don't think i took the same line that any of the other guys took. I was the last in line for every trail. I watched to see where everyone else went and i went the other way. I know with out a doubt i could have went where you guys went. Just because i didn't follow you all doesn't mean that my truck wasn't good enough. I abviously don't do the type of wheelin that you guys do so like you said, my dana 30 works great for me. If or when the axle starts to take money from my pocket them i might go a little extreme with a heavier axle and a new suspension. For now, this is perfect for my setup.

Cory did have his doubts about the 35s on the dana 30. He told me his feelings on it and we talked about it and i did research and i decided it was going to be okay. There are no if and or buts about it, the D44 is stronger the D30, just like the D60 is stronger the the D44. Personally, i couldn't see sinking the money in my truck to get a D44 to fit right under my truck with the suspension i wanted. Everyone has a certain style of offroad driving, and the D30 fit my style perfectly.

Originally posted by JoshC
I know with out a doubt i could have went where you guys went. Just because i didn't follow you all doesn't mean that my truck wasn't good enough. I abviously don't do the type of wheelin that you guys do so like you said, my dana 30 works great for me.

That's all fine and good, to each his own. The only problem I have is that is the misuse of the word 'abuse.' It's one thing to decide not to do the hard trails, that's your decision. But to then then go on the boards and proclaim that you have 'abused' your rig, thereby spreading around the information that the d30 can handle such 'abuse,' this is where I have a problem. This is spreading misinformation to those on the board that don't know any better. It's just a like a two wheel drive truck going on the boards talking about how his 2wd truck can do everything a 4x4 can do, just because he has a limited slip. The math just doesn't add up. This has nothing to do with whether or not your truck would have or would not have held up or 'could have went where you guys went.' I don't feel the need to get into all that part of it at the moment. This has to do with the misuse of the word 'abuse,' nothing more, nothing less. Out of respect for Heath, I will no longer discuss this issue on this thread.

I am truely sorry to be a part of this thread now and will unsubcribe. If you guys want to keep on talking trash to each other thats fine just remember, this is Heath's project and thread. He will decide on the axle that is right for him based on facts and opinion. Not whose d**k is bigger that the other.

You're right, i apologize for getting into that kind of detail. It just kind of struck me the wrong way. So Randal i'm sorry going on like that, and to Heath, i'm sorry for taking your topic way out of line.

NP...

Just so everyone knows... I'm not doing a D30 vs D44 comparison here... I have a different agenda in mind than just strength... I won't be putting a lot of money into upgrading an D30 either... I'm basically looking to know what are the advantages to the D30 for the X... And what are the disadvantages... Also are there different types of D30's that I should look for... Sorry if I didn't say that right up front... I know I'm being a bit vague so far but I'm not sure how far this is/will go...

As for the different types of D30's, i think there are only a low pinion and a high pinion. For some reason i thought someone told me to stay away from the LP, i don't remember why though. That's what comes on the TJ's.

because HP is more out of the way.

Also, when used in front axle applications, high pinion axles drive on the 'drive' side of the ring gear, which makes it about 30% stronger than a low pinion using the 'coast' side of the ring gear, or about equal to a low pinion 44 (in ring gear strength only). But of course, it's also 30% weaker than a low pinion axle when going in reverse, for the same reasons.

Heath,
I chose a HP Dana 30 from a '94 Wrangler. The only mods I have done to the axle are 4.56s, Posi-lock axle connect (until I get the Warn axles and hubs), M.O.R.E. cross-over high steering, and spring over. I chose a leaf spring suspension which I'll go into detail in another thread. I'm hoping to have the truck on its wheels this weekend. So far I am happy with my decision. I have built many Dana 44s in the past so I know them well. I chose the D30 for the simplicity and cost of the swap, and to keep my brand new expensive 17" wheels. The brakes are good stock and easily upgradeable without a lot of expense. I'll let you know my opinions more when I get to play with 4x later on. I hope this is what you were looking for...

So you can buy a brake upgrade package for the D30? That's one thing i noticed yesterday. I had to replace a ujoint in the axle joint and both of the hub assemblies cause they were bad, but i noticed that the rotor was on FIRE when i took it off. They are kind of small. How much does a kit run?

I wish I had the website off hand. I think it was on a JP site. Summit and eBay have the cross drilled/slotted rotors and upgraded brake pads to aid in stopping power and cooling. I think Wilwood has an upgrade kit but the price was over $400.

Thats exactly the kind of info I'm looking for, please let me know how it turns out when its back on the ground...

One disadvantage of the D30 is that it is only rated at 2200lb capacity, where as the D35 (under the 1st generation) is rated at 2750lbs. I don't have the specs for the 2nd. generation but I'm sure it is similar to the 1st.
As for axles to avoid, stay away from Grand Chrokee axles, since most were equipped with CV joints instead of u-joints. Personally, I'd try to find a '97 or newer XJ (chrokee) axle. They use the same u-joint as the D44 and don't have the vacuum disconnect.

For a daily driver/weekend warrior the D30 should be fine as long as you don't plan to go over 35's. Personally, I'd stick with 33's.

How are the axles rated? I mean where is the breaking point for one?

The axles are rated by the manufacturer. I'm sure the axles can handle far more weight than the manufacturer specifies, but by how much and for how long, who knows?

hey fellas-
Just catching up on the thread. I've been talking w/ Heath and Edsel and I think I'm headed the same route converting a 2K Ranger. I've been reading up on the differance, and I can see a long term advantage for the D44, especially in terms of strength, but I'm not sure its necessary, especially considering the price.

On that note thought, its sure as heck going to be easier to do the upgrade now, then try and swap AGAIN later for a D44. Ugh, moneypit.

I noticed on some of the other SAS's on the board, there was alot of driveline mod... i was wondering how much you have to do for a D30/D35 vs. the D45?? New Xcase required? Relocation?

Anyway, thanx for all the comments, this discussion is really helpful.

The location of the t-case is set and can stay there. Adjustments to the length of the driveshaft will probably have to happen. These changes would (probably) have to be made whether using a D30 or a D44.

About whether a new t-case is needed is a little up in the air right long. There have been a rash of elec. t-cases in 2nd gen Xs (3rd gen Rangers) going bad after SASs. They seem to be not holding up the extra stress of the SAS.

it's not so much the sas thats affecting the t-case its the fact alot of guys are running lockers up front. gerald has a lockright up front and he's having the same problems as alot of other people.

So far, it seems like if you have to go w/ a D30, the best setup might be :

HP D30
coils
high-spline (alloy) axle shafts
break-away C-clips (any opinions on these, supposedly "shear away" at a given torque to protect shaft)
ditch the vaccum hubs (or jam them)
disc break upgrade (for stopping power)
rear disk break swap in (I'm a Rngrer w/ drums out back)


How bout the rear? There are several spline count variations on the 8.8, and considering I'd go for 35's eventually, I'm curious if anyone knows which years have the higher spline count. Maybe I should swap in an explorer 8.8 rear w/ the disks and a higher spline?

If you are gonna do all that upgrading why not go with a 44?

OK, the kicker, you guys are the fellas to ask... what cost differance are we talking about?

D30 are from wranglers, I don't know where to swipe a D44 from, but I'd guess a larger Ford. Do you have to cut the axle down to match the track.

Don't mean to ask foolish questions, just getting in to it.

thnx. mb

I got my 76 44 from a bronco for $250. Sure its low pinion but the width is right. Check junk yards, online, pirate4x4.com.....

Also a Jeep waggy D44 is the right width.

I to am in the process of doing a SAS with a D30, the reasons I chose the axle over the D44 was the ABS. If you get a 92 or newer D30 none disco with abs then you can wire the axle into the stock ford system. These axles also come with the bigger stock u joints the 297’s I upgraded my axle to the new 760’s. I’ve been working with a lot of jeep guys to see what issues they run into with the D30 more then anything else, they say the ears on the axles. So im doing some alloy axle shafts when they are released from Yukon. Ill be running 4:88’s front and rear with 37” MTR’s. To get over the issue with the stock carrier being a little weak im going with an ARB in that matter. Im only a weekend wheeler who drives his truck daily so I didn’t want to deal with the ABS computer junk, and not having to carry 2 different lug wheels. One thing to remember is if your using your truck for a daily driver and such is that the main thing to concentrate on is your suspension choice. You can swap in a d44 anytime u want after you have your truck built and running. BTW don’t buy a Jeep Rubicon D44 it uses the same shafts as a D30 just different pumpkin with the electric locker. So it’s not any stronger.

Originally posted by Y2K1Edge
BTW don’t buy a Jeep Rubicon D44 it uses the same shafts as a D30 just different pumpkin with the electric locker. So it’s not any stronger.

Thanks for that info. I didn't know that. Besure and post some pictures of your swap for us.