Creative ignition system

[Maniak]

You have the right assumption.. at least to what he was talking to me about.

Use multiple switches with relays to bypass the ignition switch (replace is probably a better word)...

But, Instead of having multiple switches, I like a keypad idea.. great cool factor and thousands of combinataion for valid codes.. and some have RFID things too so you can run RFID only, Keypad only, and Keypad and RFID.

~Mark

 

[inh]

RFID is cool but it really is too easy to defeat, there are plenty of guides and examples of how to do it on the internet =/

The keypad is a good idea, but my dad ran in to an issue with that last week when his jeep was at the trans shop.. He disabled teh keypad for them, but when they disconnected the battery it reset, and they couldnt start it. So they had to call my dad and he told them to look in the doorjamb where he engraved the code, because he forgets it.. More of a story than a point I guess, but if you take your truck to a shop you'll have to tell them your code, and unless its easily changeable...

 

[Maniak]

The keypad I was looking at was easy to change the code.. and usessome type of nvram (not sure if its nvram or something else) so it keeps the codes, even if the power is removed..

Sort of like those keypad deadbolts for your house.. Change the code when you have a house sitter, and change it back when your back in town..

~Mark

 

[albi1cnobi1]

creative ignition

Hey everyone. just thought I would throw this in, there are several remote start companies that sell T-Harnesses that you can plug into your steering column harness and you don't have to cut any wiring. If I can find the link I'll post it here. They are made for remote starts but they would be perfect for this. I'm going to pick one up and try it myself.
I also have the wiring diagrams for the explorers as well.

 

[Rofocowboy84]

Anybody have any links to the keypads they're talking about? Since I got some sleep at work last night, in a little bit I'm planning on going to the local hardware store and getting them to copy my key, and then play around with different distances with the OEM key to see how close it has to be. Wish me luck.

 

[Maniak]

Here is the type of keypad I'm talking about..

http://www.allspectrum.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=1057

I'm not endorsing this model or supplier, its just one I found that has the multiple codes, self contained and runs on 12v DC.

~Mark

 

[Rofocowboy84]

Well, no dice. Went to the local hardware store, got a key cut (the guy was actually a fellow Ford owner, and told me the key wouldn't work in my ignition, until I explained to him what I was doing, lol). Checked the key at the shop, it worked in my door, so we were good. Got home, first tried with the OEM key sitting on the instrument cluster lip...nothing. Rather, everything worked with the key at "RUN", but the engine wouldn't crank when I turned it to "START". I could even hear the interrupt relay clicking every time I tried. Tried holding the OEM key right next to the lock cylinder, same thing. Tried holding it on the bottom of the steering column, where the transceiver supposedly is, nothing. So, unless we can get a stronger transceiver that will read the key in our pockets, it looks like we're down to using a keypad. Rats.... :thumbdwn::thumbdwn:

And Maniak, that keypad looks a little big to put in our cars, though I see what you're getting at with the non-volatile memory. It would be great if we could somehow get a keypad just like the door, but of course there wouldn't be a light telling you that the correct code was put in (it's easier with the door one, if the correct code is put in, the doors will unlock, lol).

 

[BrianDye]

That would be awesome to somehow adapt one of those systems where you walk up with your keys in your pocket, it unlocks, and you just press the START button when you get in, as long as you got the keys with you.

I dont get how the start button triggers the ACC's to STAY on, and then the starter when your holding the button, then it stops it all when you press it again...

That would be one hell of a project.

 

[inh]

That would be awesome to somehow adapt one of those systems where you walk up with your keys in your pocket, it unlocks, and you just press the START button when you get in, as long as you got the keys with you.

That is essentially what RFID would let you do. The sensor in the vehicle would read the RFID chip as you walk up and unlock doors, and enable the start button.

I dont get how the start button triggers the ACC's to STAY on, and then the starter when your holding the button, then it stops it all when you press it again...

That would be one hell of a project.

I was going to do this in my old car. You would need a small microctroller to take charge of things. Press the start button, and if the engine isnt running it would engage the starter. Determining if the engine is running would be as simple tapping in to a sensor wire that would output a voltage only when the engine was on.

It could be easier, using some relays, but I havent thought about it enough because I wont be doing this to my current vehicle.

 

[Rofocowboy84]

Okay, so I was reading THIS article. It seems like what we would need to do is get an RFID setup to trigger a Omege IM04 Bypass Module, which would in turn bypass the PATS. Apparently that's the bypass a lot of installers use when they put remote starters in cars with PATS systems, which normally just shut the system down until the car is started, but can be adapted to keep it off as long as the signal is detected. RFID shouldn't be too hard to do, my firehouse has an RFID system to get in, the only problem is that the little fob needs to be put within an inch of the transceiver. Some other firefighters that I'm friends with, their stations' systems will pick up the fob in your pocket from a few feet away.

Now, having experience with friends' remote starters, you still need to put the key in the ignition, or else the car will shut off once you depress the brake or try to switch gears. I'm not sure if this is a feature of the remote starter system itself, or a byproduct of the PATS system. If it's the starter, we're good.

The trick would be to get an RFID system that is good to about 5 feet, that way someone can't steal your car if you're 20 feet away in a convenience store or something.

The only other thing that I can think of that needs to be dealt with is the steering wheel lock, but like someone mentioned, that isn't too hard to take out.

As far as ACCESSORY, I'm still a little confused about that. When the key is turned to RUN, it activates every electrical system in your car, ACCESSORY just turns on the radio, etc so you can listen to music or whatever without running your fuel pump and everything, right? So, as long as you wire it right, the RUN switch will still work as usual. The only problem is when all you want to do is listen to your radio. I, for one, have no problem with three switches, 2 On-Off for accessory and run, and 1 Momentary for start. That way, to start your car, you just flip the RUN switch, and then hold the START switch/button until your car turns over. It's a whole lot easier than the microcontroller that inh was referring to. However, if someone were to want just one switch to do everything (like my friend's Nissan), then you'd have to get into the more advanced stuff.

So, if I've got this right, this is how the sequence should work (for simplicity's sake, I'm not including the automatic unlocking that some people mentioned).

1. Get in the car and sit down on the seat.
2. RFID system recognizes signal from key fob in pocket.
3. RFID system activates PATS bypass.
4. Bypass shuts down PATS system.
5. Turn RUN switch to ON, thereby powering all of the car's electrical systems.
6. Hold down START switch/button until engine turns over.
7. Shift car into gear and drive off.
8. Drive to wherever you please.
9. Stop, put car in park (parking/emergency brake if required, obviously).
10. Flip RUN switch to off, thereby turning off the car, just like turning the key off and taking it out.
11. Get out of car, and once you're however far away, RFID system loses signal from key fob and turns off PATS bypass.
12. PATS system is activated, thereby leaving your car as safe as the original system. Even if your car is broken into and the switches are played with, car won't turn over.

How does that sound? If that works, all we really need to do is find a compatible RFID system and get the wiring all figured out.

 

[albi1cnobi1]

the easiest way to bypass the key would be to adapt a remote start bypass module to simulate the key. i have a remote start in my 99 mounty so i already have the bypass. the way it works is when the remote start activates it sends a trigger wire to ground until the truck starts. after that it shuts down. there is a coil of wire around the key cylinder that "fools the PCM into thinking there is a key in the ignition. once the truck is running you don't need it, i did some tests and you can pull the key out after it starts. If you have any specific questions let me know.

Sorry din't see that last post by rofocowoy84. you've got the idea,and on the right track

 

[Rofocowboy84]

Ooh, sexy, lol....

INFO HERE

Eventually I'd like to turn my overhead console into a larger switch panel, with switches for off-road and fog lights (OEM "fog" aka driving lights will be left on the normal headlight panel), winch, diff lockers, etc, but I figure for right now just put this in the black part where the moonroof switch is, that way it has it's own little section away from all of the other switches. Plus, it's black, so it won't contrast weirdly with the gray of the rest of the console, and it's angles toward you a little bit better. I'll just have to move the moonroof switch until I can get the other switch panel made...

 

[albi1cnobi1]

I just picked up one very similar to that one for about $24.00 but it doesn't have the acc switch. The paddle switch and the push button switch are lighted as well as a power on light. oooo...aaahhh.

 

[Rofocowboy84]

I just picked up one very similar to that one for about $24.00 but it doesn't have the acc switch. The paddle switch and the push button switch are lighted as well as a power on light. oooo...aaahhh.

Got a link? I just emailed joesracing.com to see if that panel could be backlit, I can't tell if that engraving is painted white or actually translucent....

 

[Mbrooks420]

Well, no dice.
Tried holding the OEM key right next to the lock cylinder, same thing. Tried holding it on the bottom of the steering column, where the transceiver supposedly is, nothing. So, unless we can get a stronger transceiver that will read the key in our pockets, it looks like we're down to using a keypad. Rats.... .

You can get another PATS key programmed, and take the actually chip out of the key,(there is a little cover you can pry off) then take the steering colum cover off, and stick the chip right on ignition cylinder itself.

 

[albi1cnobi1]

i bought it at Pep Boys. it's in with all the neon and specialty stuff for the "fast and furious" types.

 

[Rofocowboy84]

You can get another PATS key programmed, and take the actually chip out of the key,(there is a little cover you can pry off) then take the steering colum cover off, and stick the chip right on ignition cylinder itself.

Permanently bypassing the PATS was discussed, but the idea was discarded immediately because the system wouldn't be secure, at all. We're trying to make a system that forgoes a key, but still needs a security feature to prevent any half-assed thief from just smashing a window and driving off with your car....

 

[albi1cnobi1]

Mbrooks, i don't know if that will work or not. the PATS talks to the transponder and vice-versa. it works off of inductance thats why the bypass units have a coil around the key cylinder and the key in the unit. theres a factory coil in the lock cylinder that uses the metal in the key to induce the data read.

 

[albi1cnobi1]

if the bypass unit is hidden and secure you can hide a signal relay and switch that if its not on theres no worky no matter what

 

[inh]

Get a magnetic ring, lots of cool ones , just use google. Then you install the PATS bypass module, and hide a magnetic switch behind the switch panel you plan to mount your start button in. When your hand goes to start it, the ring will trip the switch, which sends a signal to the PATS bypass module, and will allow you to start the truck.

If you want you can add a hidden bypass switch somewhere, so if the truck is at the shop, just turn it on and then you wont have to divulge your magnet secret.