Explorer Audio upgrade(s)

[champco]

"I think you are still confused a bit about the bridged mode for an amp. I believe you are referring to being rear speakers being wired in parallel or series, not having an amp bridged."

Bridged is terminology from telco. Phone wires underground come up and may go in two directions where it's bridged. A bridge tap is where wires were connected to a line. It all greatly changes the impedance which mattered in the analog world. When digital lines were integrated into the same cable all the bridge taps were removed. Different terms for different applications. Ohms law applies to all of it the same.
The audio world sees it all from a different perspective being that power and frequency rule. I still am in awe when a amp fries wires together. Resistance is futile.

 

[champco]

Just to clarify: my 2016 9-speaker premium system does not have a separate factory amplifier...all 9 speakers are driven by 5 full-range channels of the factory radio. There's a separate center channel pair of hi level speaker wires and 4 pairs of hi level speaker wires going to left front, right front, left rear, and right rear respectively. As best I can tell, all are full range. The 9 speakers use differing impedance and some have capacitors to filter bass. I believe that the signal coming to the right rear and left rear doors is full range and that the 3rd row speaker wires tap off of these...therefore, I think that they could likely be used to feed as high level input to a sub amp, either directly or through a line level converter.

I am working to get some detailed information on the 9 speaker system. I hope the rear speakers and 1/4 panel speaker are just on one wire which tapped to the rear speakers. Must be a connector. I want a schematic of the whole audio system. Too much guessing going on.
I am going to dig into it some more tomorrow. Look for that access to the rear speaker. Disconnect it and see if it changes my install. After that I will redo the install with the speaker OEM speaker surround. I expect normal base from my Infinities. If not I will try a different speaker I have on hand. A enclosed Infinity bookshelf. If it drives it well I will use different speakers. If not there is something between the second door speaker and the HU.

 

[deewan]

I am working to get some detailed information on the 9 speaker system. I hope the rear speakers and 1/4 panel speaker are just on one wire which tapped to the rear speakers. Must be a connector. I want a schematic of the whole audio system. Too much guessing going on.
I am going to dig into it some more tomorrow. Look for that access to the rear speaker. Disconnect it and see if it changes my install. After that I will redo the install with the speaker OEM speaker surround. I expect normal base from my Infinities. If not I will try a different speaker I have on hand. A enclosed Infinity bookshelf. If it drives it well I will use different speakers. If not there is something between the second door speaker and the HU.

Just my opinion, but you are mixing and matching a lot of variables. The Infinity bookshelf speaker will likely be an 8-ohm load, so the amp will drive it with less power. It's also properly enclosed so the bass will be defined. The Kappas are likely 4-ohm or lower so they will be sucking more power. And until you get them sealed in the door panels I wouldn't expect much bass from them at all. It just won't happen.

If what GeoGeek says about the second row door speakers and the cargo area speakers being wired in series or parallel, and I have no reason to think he is wrong, then you'll want to keep the cargo speakers in the mix with the Kappas or risk changing even more of what is happening with the system. Looking at the second row speakers you should be able to determine how the rear speakers are wired.

 

[champco]

Just my opinion, but you are mixing and matching a lot of variables. The Infinity bookshelf speaker will likely be an 8-ohm load, so the amp will drive it with less power. It's also properly enclosed so the bass will be defined. The Kappas are likely 4-ohm or lower so they will be sucking more power. And until you get them sealed in the door panels I wouldn't expect much bass from them at all. It just won't happen.

If what GeoGeek says about the second row door speakers and the cargo area speakers being wired in series or parallel, and I have no reason to think he is wrong, then you'll want to keep the cargo speakers in the mix with the Kappas or risk changing even more of what is happening with the system. Looking at the second row speakers you should be able to determine how the rear speakers are wired.

I knew you would catch that 8 ohm difference. Yes the Kappas are 2 ohm.
As for the book shelves, I know how they sound even at low power. Bass reproduction is what I am looking for to be certain it is not filtered out. I will give the third speakers more consideration. Thanks for the thought.
I expect after I am done the schematics will be in hand.

 

[deewan]

As for the book shelves, I know how they sound even at low power. Bass reproduction is what I am looking for to be certain it is not filtered out.

Plain and simple. If the Ford stock speakers played bass, then the bass is not being filtered out somewhere between the head unit and the speaker. I don't believe Ford would cut-off the bass to a 6.5 inch driver. If they did you should see something very close to the speakers and it would be unlikely they would also have bass blockers on the rear cargo area speakers.

If there is nothing near the second row door speakers and you still fear they have filtered out the bass that means it's happening inside the head unit and there is no way to add bass back into a signal once it's been removed. You would need to replace the head unit.

 

[GeoGeek]

If your Explorer is a 2013, then it is possible that it is different from my 2016. I believe that there was a non-Sony system offered that had an outboard amplifier behind the right rear panel...my 2016 does not have that...all 9 speakers are powered directly from the factory head unit. 3rd row speakers are run in parallel with the rear door speakers. You'll want to double check that your head unit is running the 2nd and 3rd row speakers off the same channels...mine definitely is.
The third row speakers are identical to the center channel speaker (80mm, 8ohm, 12.5 watt) and the 2nd row (rear door) speakers are 6.5 inch round, whizzer cone type, 4 ohm, 25 watt. With the two run in parallel, the radio channels 3 & 4 each see a 3 ohm load...and I'm guessing puts out about 30 watts RMS. Putting your 2 ohm speaker in place of the 4 ohm factory rear door speakers makes the load the radio sees (if, in fact there is no factory amplifier) or that your amp sees (if you do have one) down....and increases the output...but may cause your radio and/or amp to run hot...if not shut down. I'd suggest figuring out if you have a factory amp first....then go from there.

 

[champco]

If your Explorer is a 2013, it is possible that it is different from my 2016. I believe that there was a non-Sony system offered that had an outboard amplifier behind the right rear panel...my 2016 does not have that...all 9 speakers are powered directly from the factory head unit. 3rd row speakers are run in parallel with the rear door speakers. You'll want to double check that your head unit is running the 2nd and 3rd row speakers off the same channels...mine definitely is.
The third row speakers are identical to the center channel speaker (80mm, 8ohm, 12.5 watt) and the 2nd row (rear door) speakers are 6.5 inch round, whizzer cone type, 4 ohm, 25 watt. With the two run in parallel, the radio channels 3 & 4 each see a 3 ohm load...and I'm guessing puts out about 30 watts RMS. Putting your 2 ohm speaker in place of the 4 ohm factory rear door speakers makes the load the radio sees (if, in fact there is no factory amplifier) or that your amp sees (if you do have one) down....and increases the output...but may cause your radio and/or amp to run hot...if not shut down. I'don't suggest figuring out if you have a factory amp first....then go from there.

I'm sure the third row speakers are safe. The rear quarter interior cover has two trays in it. One with cup holder one without. The cupholder tray wont budge. Do not want to break it. The other tray is partially free along the front and forward end but the rear and aft end will not free up without something breaking. Grrrrrrr.....

The bottom picture in the 1st frame shows the interior and trays I cannot get out in one piece.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=419317

 

[GeoGeek]

In mine there were little inserts in the bottoms of the trays....if you pull those inserts out your can see slots that you can use a flat head screwdriver to pry out the bottom panel...I did not remove the whole cup holder assembly.

 

[peterk9]

The right rear panel had the sub woofer behind it in my 2011 Limited.

Peter

 

[champco]

In mine there were little inserts in the bottoms of the trays....if you pull those inserts out your can see slots that you can use a flat head screwdriver to pry out the bottom panel...I did not remove the whole cup holder assembly.

I found a pic on the forum and linked it to my post. Last pic 1st frame. Drink holder and second tray. Probably different then yours.

I tested the drivers side rear door speaker supply with a nice Klipsch book shelf speaker. Granted it is 8 ohm but it sounded so much like the other mounted speaker it's remarkable. I also listened carefully to the third row speaker and its just a small version of the second row speaker. It's not just a speaker replacement to upgrade this sound. There's more going on here. The OEM speakers were weak too. To describe it's as if the front have additional gain to them. Across the spectrum.

 

[GeoGeek]

I'm sure the third row speakers are safe. The rear quarter interior cover has two trays in it. One with cup holder one without. The cupholder tray wont budge. Do not want to break it. The other tray is partially free along the front and forward end but the rear and aft end will not free up without something breaking. Grrrrrrr.....

The bottom picture in the 1st frame shows the interior and trays I cannot get out in one piece.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=419317

Ahhh...I see it now. In this model the 3rd row speakers are actually in the rear pillars.....in the 2016 9-speaker system, the 3rd row speakers are actually in the panels right below the cup holders for the 3rd row passengers....they fire roughly into the hip of anyone sitting in the 3rd row. So in my 2016, it was easy to get to the wires for the 3rd row speakers by accessing the back side of them from under the cup holder/tray pop-out panels.

If your 2013 looks like the one in the pictures you referenced, then you will not be able to access the wires in the same way I did.

 

[Cichy1ad]

Hello guys,
im new here.
got quick question.
how i can get RCA output for sub and remote for amp from stock unit
2013 expl xlt 9 speakers and nav
thx

 

[DMG632]

Hello guys,
im new here.
got quick question.
how i can get RCA output for sub and remote for amp from stock unit
2013 expl xlt 9 speakers and nav
thx

You have several options for the RCA's: get a line driver, get a amp that excepts speaker in-puts, get a DSP like a bit one, of Helix. Of coarse there are many other options when it comes to processors.

For the remote you can use a relay to trigger the new amp.

None of this is that hard, it just takes a little time

 

[Cichy1ad]

thanks for quick reply DMG632
i previously used it in '99 altima right now sometimes in the garden
sub,amp, audio and power cables and all fuses.
all i need is help how to get rca output from stock unit.
links to amazon or any other webside will be helpfull.
i bet it wont be that easy like it was in altima :-D
thanks

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum DMG632 and Cichy1ad. :wavey::wavey:

Peter

 

[GeoGeek]

Hello guys,
im new here.
got quick question.
how i can get RCA output for sub and remote for amp from stock unit
2013 expl xlt 9 speakers and nav
thx

Do you know whether or not your 2013 has a factory amp? If not, it will be fairly straightforward...if you have a factory amp it may require a special piece (JL Audio Fix82 or cleansweep) of equipment to sum the signal and flatten it out.

 

[Cichy1ad]

I don't have option to control the sub from stock radio. Only bass so I'm assuming that I don't have factory amp.

 

[GeoGeek]

Does your Explorer have a factory sub? If so, it would also have a factory amp.

 

[Gregr6]

The stereo... now there's a sore spot. The Pilot had superb after market sound (2 amps, 9 speakers, massive adjustability). I got the non-Sony premium and I really love the way it's integrated into the control center but the sound quality isn't there, to say the least. Eventually I will upgrade. Research required... much research. Don't want to lose the functionality of the touchscreen.

 

[Cichy1ad]

9 speakers. No sub no amp. I think I will go with loc from right speaker by third row. Where I can get amp remote from?
I will use for loc
Scosche SLC4 Speaker Level Converter With 80 watt max
Or
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Scosche-Line-Out-Converter-with-Bass-Control/31954500