Dealer "repaired" my catalytic converters?

[TechGuru]

Probably a cost saving measure, CAT's are expensive. Bet they were able to tune to pass emissions without the 3rd so they could eliminate it. Are the power specs any different between 02-03 and 04-05?

 

[imp]

@96firephoenix "gut the cats, detune the sensor, charge $1000. 3-step hack job that won't throw any lights,......."
Might you enlarge on this a bit? How could detuning of an O2 sensor be done? And not throw a CEL? Way I see it, the PCM can only interpret sensor output voltage, and possibly monitor current level. It has no way of relating directly to cat temperature, or gas temp., other than change in O2 heater element current (resistance changes with temp.). So, if any of the parameters programmed in PCM are out of whack, CEL.

If you can detune to get rid of a ridiculously annoying CEL, please help me do it to my own rig! imp

 

[Joe in NY]

You can actually erase the rear O2 sensors from the tune. My friend is doing that for his turbo Subaru build with no cats...

 

[imp]

You can actually erase the rear O2 sensors from the tune. My friend is doing that for his turbo Subaru build with no cats...

@Joe in NY
Does he care about CEL? Or even have one? Can you do it for my 2004 Ex? Help! imp

 

[Joe in NY]

he deleting the rear O2s from the tune because of the CEL. You can make the PCM ignore them completely and no longer have it turn on the CEL bc of the rear O2s. He also is a NY state inspector so he completely removed his cats and can give himself an inspection sticker.

 

[Hugh Janus]

Does anybody actually know what was done to the OP's vehicle?

 

[CDW6212R]

Does anybody actually know what was done to the OP's vehicle?

Some Ford dealer charged him about $1500 more than the parts replaced, and they altered the rear catalytic converter(illegal).

 

[Hugh Janus]

Some Ford dealer charged him about $1500 more than the parts replaced, and they altered the rear catalytic converter(illegal).

Did the OP report them? This illegal at both the State and Federal level.

And the OP should post the name of this so-called "dealership".

 

[imp]

Did the OP report them? This illegal at both the State and Federal level.

And the OP should post the name of this so-called "dealership".

@Hugh Janus
This may very well be a very gray-area thing, since the dealer knows (probably) that Ford dropped use of the rear cat on the exact same application after a certain date.....emissions levels were unaffected by that move, and no other alterations were made that I know of. Except possibly the simultaneous adoption of Electronic Throttle Control, as suggested by @TechGuru.

The legality depends on the precise wording of the EPA laws, which I personally do not care to investigate. imp

 

[TechGuru]

What I find interesting is how would the 3rd cat be clogged and not one of the front ones? You'd think the front ones would clog up first (or one of them if one side is not running correctly)

 

[Hugh Janus]

@Hugh Janus
This may very well be a very gray-area thing, since the dealer knows (probably) that Ford dropped use of the rear cat on the exact same application after a certain date.....emissions levels were unaffected by that move, and no other alterations were made that I know of. Except possibly the simultaneous adoption of Electronic Throttle Control, as suggested by @TechGuru.

The legality depends on the precise wording of the EPA laws, which I personally do not care to investigate. imp

EMmissions are by model year only.

 

[CDW6212R]

Twice as much flow of exhaust through that 3rd cat, I'd say it's lifespan is half of a normal cat.

 

[imp]

EMmissions are by model year only.

@Hugh Janus

??

 

[TechGuru]

Twice as much flow of exhaust through that 3rd cat, I'd say it's lifespan is half of a normal cat.

But it's twice the size...

 

[imp]

But it's twice the size...

@TechGuru @CDW6212R
This could be debated forever! What determines cat "life"? IMO, closer to the engine, the more **** is likely to be present to be burnt into the honeycomb. That **** would be unburned hydrocarbons, which the high temperatures help change to less offensive ****. Then, the NOX, oxides of nitrogen which are also bad guys. Carbon Monoxide (CO) gets burned to CO2, harmless. Burning CO generates heat, likely contributes to limiting life expectancy. Now, by the time the stuff left in the gas stream which is offensive reaches that 3rd cat, it ought to be a cakewalk for it to dispose of the fewer "*****', and live forever.

Where am I wrong here? imp

 

[TechGuru]

@TechGuru @CDW6212R
This could be debated forever! What determines cat "life"? IMO, closer to the engine, the more **** is likely to be present to be burnt into the honeycomb. That **** would be unburned hydrocarbons, which the high temperatures help change to less offensive ****. Then, the NOX, oxides of nitrogen which are also bad guys. Carbon Monoxide (CO) gets burned to CO2, harmless. Burning CO generates heat, likely contributes to limiting life expectancy. Now, by the time the stuff left in the gas stream which is offensive reaches that 3rd cat, it ought to be a cakewalk for it to dispose of the fewer "*****', and live forever.

Where am I wrong here? imp

I have a 1988 vehicle with 3 original cats and they're fine...it is a Mercedes though...maybe they do something different in design? lol

 

[CDW6212R]

Who knows, the dealer or anyone on their side reading this is liking this diversion from the OP issue. The dealer did something not likely legal, gray or not, and they shouldn't do that.

The shop which "looked" at the exhaust from the rear single opening, did not see the right front cat at all, or the most critical spots, the front of each cat surface. The leading edge of the internal strata is what "burns" or melts first when it's going bad or plugging up. The OP may be okay and have no further issues besides the hole in the wallet. But there is likely more going on with the truck, the cause of whatever the issue is/was, probably still exists.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Bet ya if you installed the y pipe without the third cat it would be legal, but because the emissions system was tampered with even though the the result was the same it is currently illegal.

 

[lincolnshibuya]

When I have my tires replaced for my Lincoln Continental at Tiresplus, they accidentally destroyed the TPMS band (the older design is not on the stem valve) and can't be placed back. I told them that it's okay to throw it away since the TPMS doesn't work anyway (I have that red warning light on the roof console) they required me to go back again because they have to order a used TPMS band with sensor and install it regardless if it's operational or not. They said that TPMS is one of the devices under Federal Law that shouldn't be tampered.

I think we're just speculating right now what really happened because the OP didn't provide any updates...

 

[Turdle]

he deleting the rear O2s from the tune because of the CEL. You can make the PCM ignore them completely and no longer have it turn on the CEL bc of the rear O2s. He also is a NY state inspector so he completely removed his cats and can give himself an inspection sticker.

This guy needs to be reported. And shut down.