Brakes don´t have initial bite

[Christobal65]

That´s nice!
I´ve looked at the raybestos parts, found the Hybrid pads, which rotors did you use (have the part no.?), also which lube did you used?

I believe they are called the advanced rotors, I'd have to dig up the info to be sure, but they have a black anti rust coating on the non-swept areas. As for the lube it's just the green permatex synthetic brake lube.

 

[Explorer75]

I believe they are called the advanced rotors, I'd have to dig up the info to be sure, but they have a black anti rust coating on the non-swept areas. As for the lube it's just the green permatex synthetic brake lube.

Thanks for the info!

I´ll be giving this a lot of thought, probably going to go this way.

 

[Explorer75]

So, after a few days after the new lube the brakes are performing a bit better on the initial bite and a lot better on overall stopping power. Still I contacted Akebono Customer Service and after a couple back and forth e-mails they are sending me a front set of performance pads for me to try . The performance pads have a higher coefficient of friction than the ACT or normal ones. I will report again after the new pads are installed and broken in...

 

[tripplec]

yes different pads will make a difference. As many have found out those engineered for quiet lacks sufficient bite on heavier vehicles that need optimized braking friction.

 

[Explorer75]

I had the same complaints on the stock 4th gen brakes. I think it's partly due to the ABS system restrictions, and also the small-ish 12" front rotors. I swapped out the 12" stock rotors for 13" front brakes from a Lincoln Aviator. it wasn't a drastic improvement, but braking is definitely improved. More than any rotor/pad combo in stock size would give you. It's no 5th gen explorer sport brakes, but brake fade, pulsing, etc are all gone and overall power is much better...

check out this thread for details and pictures. Front brake upgrade

Thanks 06bluez, I totally missed your post. Nice work. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Christobal65]

Yeah I will say I was recently reading through the manual and it specifically said something about abs having an affect on the pedal feel.

 

[Explorer75]

So, I got news

Received and installed the Akebono Performance pads on the front. Instantly the brakes felt with more bite. The Akebono´s Pro Act in the front were glazed. So 1 week later I checked the performance pads on the front, they are perfect, checked the pro act on the rear and they were completely glazed. Sanded them and will check them in 1 week. I presume this brakes tend to overheat and glaze, that is why they usually perform poorly. I will check with the Akebono tech to see what next.

 

[Explorer75]

OK, presumably the pads glazed because the new rotors were not completely clean from the oil they are covered from factory. Brakes are having a solid bite, in that part I´m happy. The Initial bite still isn´t there, the brake delay is still there, I think it is because of the slide pins. Every time I put them together and lube them they slide fine, when I take them apart they are very stiff. I´ve used 3 different types of lube. Even different quantity, still afterwards they are stiff. How much lube you guys put? maybe I need to put just a tiny bit?

 

[Explorer_PL]

I always have same problems with the pins.
Just put small amount of grease. Just did that 2 weeks ago, we'll see in the future.

I just did something on the rear, and those are in perfect shape, slide very easily. I did not open them or re-lube in 12 years. Go figure.

 

[Explorer75]

OK, I got caliper grease https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CIHTPE for the pins, they slide very nice now, this grease is not sticky as the brake lube usually used, like it very much.
Ford the back of the pads and the contact points, metal to metal I used https://www.amazon.com/3M-08945-Copper-Seize-Brake/dp/B00HSCN9IS what I like about this is that it still is an antiseize but won´t drip, has a 2000 F rating. It´s thick and will stay in place wherever you put it, it isn't oily either like most anti seize. Still you can use it on the brakes and as anti seize for bolts and oxygen sensors (duh).

So far so good for lubricating.

As for the pads, the performance akebonos on the front held very good, they are biting real good. The pro act on the rear glazed again! Maybe if the rear were doing their job the brake would be better.
My braking was very conservative, so I have to think what to do on the rear. Thinking about getting the 3rd generation rear performance Akebonos pads, 881 casting. It´s very much the same as the 1109, just a tiny bit smaller, we are talking less than half mm.

 

[Explorer75]

Deleted my previous post where I marked this problem as solved. It isn´t.
It´s better than before but I somehow adjusted to the feel. As soon as I drove another vehicle I knew right away the problem is still there.
I´m installing custom braided brake lines soon, report back.

 

[Explorer75]

Interesting development. Installed the custom braided brake hoses, the pedal is a bit firmer but for the cost of the hoses (more than 200 bucks, yikes I know, I was desperate) is not worth it, you´ll probably be better off getting the 4 new Motorcraft for about 80 if yours are 6 years old or more.
So nothing was working, went back to the basics. Getting Motorcraft rotors and pads and see how they performed. Shopping for the parts I noticed the pads part number had changed. Old parts were BRF1158 and BRF1109 front and rear respectively. And new BR1158B and BR1109B. Got the new pads and rotors.
To my surprise the new pads were smaller (narrower), specially the front pads, smaller than any brand I´ve previously used. Installed them anyway. Brakes were bad, not awful, just plain bad. I began researching, thinking maybe the old pad were better. Found a couple of seller on ebay selling the old pads. After requesting pictures of the box to confirm I bought them. When the pads arrived I was surprised and really glad that this old pads were a lot wider than the new parts. Installed them. WOW I got brakes!!! What do you know, the truck feels better than ever, right away from the start, no brake in required, as soon as I went out with the new pads, but old parts (BRF1158 and BRF1109), truck stops on a dime!
If you embark on the search of the old part always request and actual picture so you can confirm they are selling you the old not new part. Most re-use images and will sell you the new crappy part.

I´ve enclosed the picture of the BRF1158 I got, didn´t take the picture of the new part before I threw them away but I googled one so you can see the difference.

If you look at both pads the new ones have much less contact with the rotors. Also the material they are made from is different.

 

[MNgopher]

In a certain sense, you are right that it was old or new pads, however that isn't actually the whole story.

On newer Ford vehicles, you can usually source two different brake pads - one is the factory pad (or awfully close) and the other is the value line for price sensitive customers (or what is usually priced out in the ads you see from dealers...). They don't last as long, perform great, or have low dust, but they are inexpensive.

As the vehicle ages, eventually they no longer stock both pads, and usually drop the more expensive one...

Which leaves what you found: The BR pad is the "value" pad, the BRF pads were the factory configuration.

Motorcraft just offers exactly what you find in the aftermarket : cheap pads and good pads...

 

[Explorer75]

In a certain sense, you are right that it was old or new pads, however that isn't actually the whole story.

On newer Ford vehicles, you can usually source two different brake pads - one is the factory pad (or awfully close) and the other is the value line for price sensitive customers (or what is usually priced out in the ads you see from dealers...). They don't last as long, perform great, or have low dust, but they are inexpensive.

As the vehicle ages, eventually they no longer stock both pads, and usually drop the more expensive one...

Which leaves what you found: The BR pad is the "value" pad, the BRF pads were the factory configuration.

Motorcraft just offers exactly what you find in the aftermarket : cheap pads and good pads...

Thanks for the input. I just don´t understand how Ford goes cheap on breaks, or parts in general. It just doesn´t make sense.
But I guess you can blame the market. Some people just want cheap parts. To me it should be: you want your vehicle to perform the same as when it drove off the assembly line? buy OEM. You want to go cheap, buy aftermarket.
I could even understand if you want cheap Motorcraft parts you can get them, but if you buy at a dealer you could get the real OEM Motorcraft part. But is worse, the dealer will charge more for the same crappy part you can get anywhere, it´s a ripoff!

 

[tripplec]

One would expect all pads to meet DOT standards and specification. The material of the pad is all that is different and there are a number of base pad material types.
- Ceramic
- metallic
- carbon metallic

I have used them all in various vehicles more than once. More recently the carbon metallic which at suppose to be much better from info read.

 

[El Duque]

Hi, can you list the seller you used on ebay? I'm having no luck finding those pads. amazon, ebay, rock auto, etc. all sold out. thanks

 

[Explorer75]

Hi, can you list the seller you used on ebay? I'm having no luck finding those pads. amazon, ebay, rock auto, etc. all sold out. thanks

I bought it months ago. Since then I haven´t seen any. Saw 2 sellers using old photos and old part number to sell the new one. After asking them they confirmed it was the new part.

 

[Explorer75]

Gave up on the 2010 Explorer brakes, somehow after a while the brakes go back to where it was or no , design flaw, undersized brakes? who knows, just decided not to spend one more dime on this.

2010 Truck sold, got a 2013 Explorer XLT. Brakes perfect, no gasp, no wondering, just what it´s supposed to do, stop the truck in a predictable way.

Best of luck to all of you and thanks for all the help.

 

[07EddyB]

Well - I was going to be smart and show you that the 2013 stops better because it's lighter. Then I do the research and find out that a 2010 with a V6 runs about 4500 curb weight. Guess what - so does a 2013. So they lost the frame and didn't lose any weight?
That seems like a waste.

 

[Explorer75]

Well - I was going to be smart and show you that the 2013 stops better because it's lighter. Then I do the research and find out that a 2010 with a V6 runs about 4500 curb weight. Guess what - so does a 2013. So they lost the frame and didn't lose any weight?
That seems like a waste.

I had the 2010 4x4 which should be heavier than the 2013 2wd. As for the frame, yes I lost the firmness of the 2010, the 2013 drives like a lifted sedan. It's not bad. Prefer the 2010 in that aspect. With the 2013 you have more power, better fuel economy and brakes. I'd make the trade any day of the week.