Wheel alignment nightmare

[koda2000]

Today I decided to replace the (squealing for a second at startup) serpentine belt on my daughter's '00 RWD Mountaineer 5.0L. That went smoothly enough, but while I was under the truck releasing the belt tensioner, I was shocked to see that both her front tires were extremely worn on the insides, this only seven thousand miles after having a wheel alignment, because I replaced the upper & lower ball joints back in April of this year.

Some of you may recall that this alignment shop is the one that returned her truck with the steering wheel pointing about 15 degrees to the right and telling her see needed to replace her ball joints. The truck went back the next day to have this corrected and they told her that "something was loose". Afterwards, the steering wheel was centered and I thought everything was okay until today. The passenger side front tire is now so badly worn on the inside that the metal cords are beginning to show. The driver's side is almost as bad, but not quite. These are Michelin LTX's with about 20k on them. Now 2 of them are ruined and need to be replaced.

I plan to pay a visit to the shop that did the alignment on Monday, but I'm pretty sure they'll say that it's somehow it's my daughter's fault. Then I'll be calling the BBB. This is supposed to be the most reputable, family owned for 30 years tire/repair shop in my small town. Most all of the other tire/repair shops where I live are so sketchy I never use them. This really pisses me off as now I need to replace 2 tires and pay for another alignment (at a different tire shop!).

 

[SupaSwope]

I remember you posting about the original issue. That's horrible. As someone who just did a complete front suspension job and new tires. This would be my worst nightmare.

Do you think it was the shop just going downhill? Or maybe the tech working the alignment section?

 

[koda2000]

I remember you posting about the original issue. That's horrible. As someone who just did a complete front suspension job and new tires. This would be my worst nightmare.

Do you think it was the shop just going downhill? Or maybe the tech working the alignment section?

I'm thinking the tech in the alignment section didn't know what the hell he was doing. With all the computerized equipment they have today, doing an alignment shouldn't be that difficult. Considering the tech apparently left something "loose" the first time, someone should have been looking over his shoulder the second time. Wanna bet he doesn't work there anymore?

 

[boominXplorer]

Most techs won't touch the upper cam bolts even if you have eggcentric ones in there, they are just lazy. They like to "set the toe and let it go". I do my own alignments with string/tape/chalk but it takes some time. Only 1 out of 4 of my vehicles have factory ride height and it's always the same deal as you getting an alignment.

 

[swshawaii]

I'd be pissed too. Michelin LTX M/S tires are known to wear like iron, and getting 100k out of them is not unheard of.

Boomin's probably right, likely centered the wheel and just set the toe wrong. Any way you can post the shop name Phil?

 

[96eb96]

That sucks. I have a digital tire depth gauge now because something like that happened to me, at Ford dealer too. Ruined tire and loose tie rod nut . I check the tires with the gauge every oil change, esp after an alignment. I brought it back and the excuses started..we know you work on your car..blah blah..yeah I buy parts there and talk to the techs. Told them if I ever left a linkage nut loose on my or a customers car if I did it professionally I would put all my tools on CL and pay someone to drive me around. Then another service adviser looked up the job and said, yeah, it is so and sos work he is long gone.

They ended up giving me two free oil changes and a free alignment when I bought the tire. They give me decent prices on parts so I didn't push it.

Were your tires rotated?

 

[poker4me007]

A few years ago I put in a rack and pinion from advance auto went to town fair tire for an alignment...when I got it home looked under there to see if I could notice if they did any adjusment , shure enough they twisted the pinnion bellows they were to lazy or to stupid to remove the clamp...twisted the way they were they probably would have ripped open in no time... I hate garages...

 

[koda2000]

I'd be pissed too. Michelin LTX M/S tires are known to wear like iron, and getting 100k out of them is not unheard of.

Boomin's probably right, likely centered the wheel and just set the toe wrong. Any way you can post the shop name Phil?

Roland Tire in jasper GA. I bought the 4 tires for my ST there, watched the tire tech mount them and was very happy with his work. He was very thorough, right down to using an actual torque wrench on the lug nuts.

When/where I had my ST aligned, after I replace the upper & lower ball joints, I was allowed to watch the tech do the alignment and he explained everything as he went along. I would have taken my daughter's Monty back to that place, but the tech had some sort if injury and the owner of the shop wasn't sure when he'd return to work. The tire wear on my ST has been very even to-date.

I always ask if I can watch when I'm having something done on my cars. Most shops let me.

 

[koda2000]

That sucks. I have a digital tire depth gauge now because something like that happened to me, at Ford dealer too. Ruined tire and loose tie rod nut . I check the tires with the gauge every oil change, esp after an alignment. I brought it back and the excuses started..we know you work on your car..blah blah..yeah I buy parts there and talk to the techs. Told them if I ever left a linkage nut loose on my or a customers car if I did it professionally I would put all my tools on CL and pay someone to drive me around. Then another service adviser looked up the job and said, yeah, it is so and sos work he is long gone.

They ended up giving me two free oil changes and a free alignment when I bought the tire. They give me decent prices on parts so I didn't push it.

Were your tires rotated?

I was going to rotate them this weekend (and now I have). I usually rotate my tires between 5000-7000 miles. That's always been adequate.

 

[koda2000]

Update:

I made an appointment with my regular tire shop to get an alignment today at 2:00. I've asked them for a print out of the current settings first (for evidence purposes). Today or tomorrow I'll go talk to the shop that screwed it up to see if they'll do anything about me having to pay for a second alignment and the ruined tires. They've already had two attempts at this job, and screwed it up both times. There's no way I'm giving them a 3rd try at it. I doubt they'll want to do anything, then it'll be the letter to the BBB and perhaps small claims court (maybe I'll email The Peoples Court or Judge Judy...). **** like this is why I do as many repairs as I can myself. You can't trust anyone anymore.

 

[swshawaii]

No print outs from the botched Roland Tire alignments? Reputable shops here ALWAYS provide them, green numbers or not.

 

[koda2000]

No print outs from the botched Roland Tire alignments? Reputable shops here ALWAYS provide them, green numbers or not.

Nope only an invoice from Roland Tire for a "Thrust Alignment" $62.50.

Update:
I just got back from my regular tire shop's wheel alignment (Jasper Tire). Their tech spent an hour and a half getting the alignment as perfect as he possibly could. He said it's now within factory specs. He found that Roland Tire had installed a camber bolt kit on the drivers side (they didn't charge me for a kit), but they put nothing on the passenger side. What happened was that the driver's side upper control arm slipped out of adjustment because the control arm bolts had not been sufficiently tightened. This through the camber way off and also effected the toe adjustment. That's what ruined the front tires. While driving to the shop I noticed that the steering wheel was off-center again, so I knew something had moved. My daughter never mentioned it.

I now have before and after alignment printouts, with notes from my tech giving his professional opinion as to what happened. It was too late to visit Roland Tire today, so I'll be speaking with them tomorrow. I want them to pay for the re-alignment ($69.95) and do something reasonable regarding giving me an adjusted price on replacing the 2 ruined tires.

I'll let you know what they say. My daughter has been told to immediately report it to me if the steering wheel goes off-center again. I'll be checking the front tires weekly. I also told my alignment tech to be more careful to not injure himself in the future, as I wont be taking my vehicles anywhere else for alignment.

 

[swshawaii]

Update:
What happened was that the driver's side upper control arm slipped out of adjustment because the control arm bolts had not been sufficiently tightened. This through the camber way off and also effected the toe adjustment. That's what ruined the front tires. While driving to the shop I noticed that the steering wheel was off-center again, so I knew something had moved.

SAME thing happened to me, except mine was the passenger side rear bolt. Lucky because I got a warning clunk going over small bumps at low speed, and don't believe my alignment was affected because there was no noticeable change in tracking, and my steering wheel position remained the same. Surprising, since the bolt torque spec is around 100 foot pounds, and Moog camber bolt kits use elliptical lock nuts. I guess the fear is the upper control arm brackets tend to bend inward when high torque is applied. Took it back for an alignment check, and to give the service manager a good reaming. First thing I did when I got home was CAREFULLY check all the bolts for proper torque making sure the bolt heads were not moved, and coated the exposed bolt threads with blue Loctite.

 

[koda2000]

My tech tightened the **** out of my bolts. Even had a helper hold the nuts and helped him tighten them.

BTW - For exposed threads they make a special type of Loctite (green) which would have been a better choice for you. If mine loosen up again I'm using red Loctite, which is considered "permanent" and requires heat to release.

 

[swshawaii]

Now you tell me Phil. JK, thanks.

Time for the small wire brush and some green.

The Difference Between Red, Blue, Green and Purple Threadlockers - Henkel Adhesive Technologies Blog

 

[koda2000]

Now you tell me Phil. JK, thanks.

Time for the small wire brush and some green.

The Difference Between Red, Blue, Green and Purple Threadlockers - Henkel Adhesive Technologies Blog

Live and learn Steve.

 

[koda2000]

Update:
Went to talk to Roland Tire this morning. I decided to begin with being as calm as possible, under the theory that you can get more flies with honey than vinegar, but I was prepared to ramp up my attitude as required. I think this was a good approach as the assistant manager and the manager seemed responsive. The fact that their waiting area was full of customers probably didn't hurt either, him not wanting me to make a seen. The manager (who I know can be a bit of a prick) remained calm, but tried his best to wiggle out of his responsibility, all the while assuring me that he'ii do whatever was necessary to make me happy. Once he realized I knew what I was talking about and that he couldn't BS me, he agreed to refund what I had paid them for the first alignment, and he sold me 2 new, decent quality tires mounted and balanced for $100. He first offered me a $120 deal on the tires, but I told him I thought $100 out the door would be more fair to account for my time in having to make 3 trips to his shop and he said okay. In the end I told him that I felt neither one of us will thrilled with the outcome, but that we could each live with it. He agreed.

I'll be keeping a close eye on the front tire wear until I'm comfortable that the front end will now stay in adjustment.

 

[swshawaii]

Agree, cool is the key, nobody likes listening to a screaming idiot. NEVER believed in "the customer is ALWAYS right",
but in this case you were. Just another reminder to get a printout after the alignment is finished. Happy for you!

 

[Turdle]

Wow, you got better results than I expected to be honest. Feel good and move on I say. At least you know your daughter is safer now.

Wonder if she went wheelin'?

 

[koda2000]

Wow, you got better results than I expected to be honest. Feel good and move on I say. At least you know your daughter is safer now.

Wonder if she went wheelin'?

Yeah, I'm satisfied with the results, but I did have to shell out $100 that I wasn't planning on. Oh well.

My daughter's a 38 year old single mom with a stock, 17 year old, RWD Monty that's her only form of transportation, so I think the odds of her going wheeling are slim... LOL. Now, when her older sister was 17 and I bought her a Jeep Wrangler, you should have seen how she brought it home. So much mud on/in it I wouldn't let her park it in the driveway.

Driving her truck around for the past couple of days, I'm amazed at how well it drives, rides, stops, shifts and handles for having close to 250,000 on it. It's looking a bit beat-up these days, but mechanically it really has no issues whatsoever (thanks to my regular maintenance). It was a great buy for $2,150 in 2012. I need to recover the leather driver's seat bottom (a $200 repair) but the rest of the interior is in great shape too, even with carrying a 5 year old around in it.