Conversation Time!!! SAS or TTB?

[Capone425]

So, As some of you may have seen I just got my X about a month ago. TBH, I have been an XJ guy for about a decade but when the price is right, the price is right so now I have this Explorer. It belonged to a friend so I helped do some of the work that has already been done and it performs really well right now, but that Dana 35 is going to hold me back in the future. So, I was pretty set on just running a Jeep axle in the front and just running limited slip until I got around to going to full size axles. But I came across this article which has me thinking otherwise. I have read (and I think it says here) people are getting 18+ inches of travel from the TTB axles.

I am in the process of buying a house of which I plan on building a shop with a two post chasis lift and plan on doing serious work on the X this winter (going to just basically wheel it as it is minus a couple of upgrades this summer). So I wanted to open up the conversation and see what other people have done and have some discussion about the pros and cons.

Here is the article, let me know. The jist of it is upgrading the D35 TTB axle with D44 components and modifying it to allow for more travel and strengthen the housing up.

Beefing Up a Ford Dana 35 TTB Axle

 

[bammbamm]

Here is what my plans are for my current explorer. I have had 6 first gen explorers with all different levels of suspension on them(not one SAS’ed though).

I have had Explorer’s from stock TTB to lifted up to long travel c&t beams, heimed radius arms, etc. I have never even wanted a solid axle. TTB did everything I asked of it and more. My type of wheeling(so cal) use to be go fast desert and light trails so it was beneficial to utilize the TTB. Now that I have moved to AZ and have 3 kiddos, I want something easy to maintain and really reliable. The TTB takes a lot of constant maintenance compared to a SFA.

My current explorer is still TTB with just a small 2” lift and 31s. As my kids are still very young(2 and younger, I have twins) I want to just get them out there exploreing and outdoors as much as possible. I have no plans to highly modify the TTB just to make it reliable for now, explore and to build up a D44 while they are growing and be able to stick it under the expo in a couple of years when they are ready to get into more hardcore trails. Gives me time to build up the axle and gather all the parts and material that will be needed and not make the wife go crazy spending tons of money at once.

I think the TTB is excellent when set up right and will only hold you back on hardcore trails(relative to how much you modify/invest in to properly setting it up). It’s great for light trails, go fast, and daily driver duties with little work. Even some of the Ultra 4 guys were running a TTB style setup(not sure if any still are). Whether you should modify the TTb or go SFA is completely up to the type of wheeling you do, your budget, and how much you like working on your vehicles.

 

[R.J.]

The ttb is a good desert suspension, and it's decent on moderate trails with a sturdy lift kit (skyjacker or James duff) but if you want to make a didicated rock crawler out of it, to solid axle.

18" of travel from a ttb is great in the desert, but it isn't as good in the rocks as a solid axle.

 

[R.J.]

The ttb is a good desert suspension, and it's decent on moderate trails with a sturdy lift kit (skyjacker or James duff) but if you want to make a didicated rock crawler out of it, to solid axle.

18" of travel from a ttb is great in the desert, but it isn't as good in the rocks as a solid axle. I've had 18" of travel from my ttb on coilovers.

 

[87xjmike]

Well I'm up crazy late with a newborn baby so ill play....
I set up suspension for a living. Most of my customers have jeeps, but most of my personal rigs are on beams. I got over the xj/zj thing years ago as I hate the way they handle . And to address your numbers, You have to extend the beams to at least 4.5" per side to get 18" on both sides. Im not sure how much the 44 hub conversion extends the axle but i doubt its that much. I extended my expo d35 axles 3.5" per side and with all the tricks in the book, including uniball beam pivots, could only pull 18" on the pass side and 16.5" on the driver side bumped and strapped. No matter what anybody says there's no way to get more clean usable travel than that without extending the beams.

For the mild to moderate crawling and trail running ill use the explorer on 33" tires and will kill all the jeeps with how fast i can run most trails. I also have king coilovers and deaver springs out back which helps . for the hardcore trails like fordyce and Rubicon ill take my sfa rig which is a 73 ford courier on 40" tires and yota axles as it;
1. has better ground clearance primarily in the back
2. articulates better than the beams while only having 14" of vertical travel on fox coilovers. Articulating travel is more important on The rocks and beams just can't hit the articulating numbers a straight axle can .

It really depends on the terrain and tire size .

 

[Capone425]

Well I'm up crazy late with a newborn baby so ill play....
I set up suspension for a living. Most of my customers have jeeps, but most of my personal rigs are on beams. I got over the xj/zj thing years ago as I hate the way they handle . And to address your numbers, You have to extend the beams to at least 4.5" per side to get 18" on both sides. Im not sure how much the 44 hub conversion extends the axle but i doubt its that much. I extended my expo d35 axles 3.5" per side and with all the tricks in the book, including uniball beam pivots, could only pull 18" on the pass side and 16.5" on the driver side bumped and strapped. No matter what anybody says there's no way to get more clean usable travel than that without extending the beams.

For the mild to moderate crawling and trail running ill use the explorer on 33" tires and will kill all the jeeps with how fast i can run most trails. I also have king coilovers and deaver springs out back which helps . for the hardcore trails like fordyce and Rubicon ill take my sfa rig which is a 73 ford courier on 40" tires and yota axles as it;
1. has better ground clearance primarily in the back
2. articulates better than the beams while only having 14" of vertical travel on fox coilovers. Articulating travel is more important on The rocks and beams just can't hit the articulating numbers a straight axle can .

It really depends on the terrain and tire size .
View attachment 157556

So the problem I run into is the "it really depends on the terrain" part. Here where I live in NW Washington State, the trails are a lot of dirt/mud trails due to the climate and even the rocky ones are hard to call "rock crawling" as it is usually pretty damp, even in the summer time due to the shade from the forests and the high concentration of rivers/streams etc. So it isn't quite the rock crawling I used to do in my XJ when I lived in Colorado. But on the other hand there is some rock crawling just over the mountains on the dry side that is pretty good. And my family does have a cabin in the area of some of the best of it so it isn't entirely out of the question.

My ultimate goal is to build full size axles for it and do something pretty crazy so I can travel to MOAB, Rubicon etc. My rig will be a trailer only rig shortly (after I finish buying my new house and buy a trailer that is) so road drivability isn't really important to me. My problem is I am running about 7.5 inches of total lift and 33's at the moment (probably soon to be 35s) and I would like something that performs better in the front without being an insane amount of work. What attracted me to this concept was being able to run 35's an atleast a limited slip in the front without any real fear of breaking regularly. I don't mind breaking once in a while and putting it on the trailer but I want to avoid the D30 issue that the Jeeps have. (Been there). And the only real common sense SAS for the front that I am aware of that isn't a crazy amount of work is a D30 from an XJ due to being the correct size and bolt pattern etc... However, that axle is hot garbage and makes me nervous on 35's running open, let alone limited slip or locked. By upgrading to the D44 components it seems as if I could at least run 35s and a limited slip in the front, even if it was at the expense of wheel travel until I do the full size build.

I am new to the explorer game (although I have always been a ford truck guy, primarily stuff from the 70's) and have precisely zero experience with the TTB. This rig just fell in my lap for 1k as is so I couldn't pass up the opportunity as I wanted to get back to having my own wheeler and not just riding in my brother's XJ. Maybe none of it is worth it in the end if I am only going to run it for a couple of years and I should just keep the stock TTB. Anybody had issues running 35's on a stock TTB (well almost stock, I did add manual locking hubs I happened across at the pick and pull when getting a heater blower motor)

 

[87xjmike]

For the terrain you describe you'll be fine on 35's with a d35. People run 35's quite a bit and do fine. Just make sure to tac weld all the ujoimt caps or run full circle clips. I went through the work to do full circle clips and wish i just tac welded as it took way to many hours to do them all.

Hell my first rig I built was a b2 on 35's and i took it to the rubicon several times on the d28 front beams with little issues. No breakage. Just have to know how to drive. I eventually swapped in a d30 from an early bronco but that was for articulation only.

 

[Styx]

Hey Capone, welcome to explorer-ing I have 3 explorers right now my wife drives our stock 2013 limited. I have a 2002 eddy that is lifter about 7 inches on 32" tires but that's more of a mall crawler, and I'm about finished an SAS swap on my trail rig a 1993 limited. I have had 7 explorers over the years (ya it's a sickness...lol...) and all sorts of other 4x4's such as full size bronco's early bronco's and even a few Toyota’s. If you ask me do the solid axle swap on yours. I'm just waiting on a set of FOA coil-overs for my 93 and it will be hitting the trails. My best off road explorer was the 99 I have as my avatar it was you can read my build page on the specs but man that thing could crawl.
I have nothing against TTB set ups but they do tend to kill tires fast if they are not done right.

Go with the jeep D30 it will handle 35's no problem and 37's if you can drive. My 93 has a D30 out of an 02 grand Cherokee that was a bit wider than my rear 8.8 but that is fixed with spacers which will also give you the 5 on 5inch bolt pattern which makes wheel selection way better and cheeper. Another advantage of the 02 grand Cherokee front is bigger brakes.

Cheers Randy...

 

[stephen93Eddie]

I like the TTB, I like the uniqueness of the vehicle. Will I SAS, eventually I'm sure if i actually still have the time to go out and play. the weird thing about TTB seems that some guys make theirs work perfectly never complain about tire wear and put up a good showing even in some rocks. I think it all come down to whether or not you want to understand the TTB or not. I think its fun. a few people come to mind when I think about TTB working great @Maniak @R.J. on TRS I like 4x4junkie and BlackBII has a badass ranger he's building it probably has more work into it then a SAS, electric steering, custom centerlink, extended radius arms, BII tank and skid, 4.0 swap. I've always been told if you know your vehicle, you can make it work for what you need.

 

[RangerX]

I ran 37's on my Ranger for 12 years, as a daily driver and wheeler. Some of those years I had a limited slip up front, some of the years I had a locker. Front axle was stock, except for LS/locker and 4.56 gears. I did lots of fairly rough SoCal wheeling, plus Rubicon and Moab with the locker. I blew a few hubs over the years, and only snapped an outer axle once or twice. All breakage happened with the wheels turned all the way to one side, so there's the weakness. xjmike's comment about you just need to know how to drive is spot on and cannot be stressed enough.
My recommendation is, if you stay with the TTB for now, leave it alone and find the limits. The D44 conversion involves work, and for not that much gain. Save the work for doing the solid axles in the future.

 

[RangerX]

Also, look thru this section, and check out who lives up in your area and look at what they drive.
North-Western Explorer Club
Seems like most Explorer guys up that way have SASed. I figure there's a good reason why.

 

[crashhard]

I ran 37's on my Ranger for 12 years, as a daily driver and wheeler. Some of those years I had a limited slip up front, some of the years I had a locker. Front axle was stock, except for LS/locker and 4.56 gears. I did lots of fairly rough SoCal wheeling, plus Rubicon and Moab with the locker. I blew a few hubs over the years, and only snapped an outer axle once or twice. All breakage happened with the wheels turned all the way to one side, so there's the weakness. xjmike's comment about you just need to know how to drive is spot on and cannot be stressed enough.
My recommendation is, if you stay with the TTB for now, leave it alone and find the limits. The D44 conversion involves work, and for not that much gain. Save the work for doing the solid axles in the future.

Im new to tbb suspensions and learning as I go. Just bought a 92 mainly to build the ttb for rock and desert. Why is the d44 upgrade " not that much gain". Not condescending ...Im really interested if it is worth upgrading the d35.

 

[R.J.]

Well I'm up crazy late with a newborn baby so ill play....
I set up suspension for a living. Most of my customers have jeeps, but most of my personal rigs are on beams. I got over the xj/zj thing years ago as I hate the way they handle . And to address your numbers, You have to extend the beams to at least 4.5" per side to get 18" on both sides. Im not sure how much the 44 hub conversion extends the axle but i doubt its that much. I extended my expo d35 axles 3.5" per side and with all the tricks in the book, including uniball beam pivots, could only pull 18" on the pass side and 16.5" on the driver side bumped and strapped. No matter what anybody says there's no way to get more clean usable travel than that without extending the beams.

For the mild to moderate crawling and trail running ill use the explorer on 33" tires and will kill all the jeeps with how fast i can run most trails. I also have king coilovers and deaver springs out back which helps . for the hardcore trails like fordyce and Rubicon ill take my sfa rig which is a 73 ford courier on 40" tires and yota axles as it;
1. has better ground clearance primarily in the back
2. articulates better than the beams while only having 14" of vertical travel on fox coilovers. Articulating travel is more important on The rocks and beams just can't hit the articulating numbers a straight axle can .

It really depends on the terrain and tire size .
View attachment 157556

Do you also have a beamed race Courier?

 

[RangerX]

Why is the d44 upgrade " not that much gain". Not condescending ...Im really interested if it is worth upgrading the d35.

Well because in stock form it held up to 37s and a locker. What is the real gain to add D44 outers?
My point of saying that was to suggest the OP not bother doing that if he's eventually going SAS.
For you or others, it may be exactly the right thing.

 

[stephen93Eddie]

I think the best upgrade would be clearancing the axles for more droop and full circle c clips for the ujoints. broncograveyard sells chromoly stubs, and most people blow up hubs before the stubs. I guess wheel bearings maybe? but some people don't have any issues with wheel bearings and 35s and other don't. I like the idea of the 44 outers just not the bolt pattern.

 

[mounty71]

Do you also have a beamed race Courier?

Yeah that's him.