Rear toe link questions HELP PLEASE

[blueoval9erlifer]

Ive got an 04 xlt the toe links are worn out New ones from ford quoted at 175.00 each done some research and found some Moog replacement parts was wondering if anyone had tried to take the factory ends off of the link rod? They are threaded but then Ford in their absolute wisdom then crimps the ends on instead of using a lock nut. if i try to take these ends off will it pull my threads to where i cannot put the new ends on?? tried to set it up as a link on here but not savvy enough i guess to accomplish this. if you google Moog ES800560 and moog es800562 it takes you to the problem solver moog page and shows the ends. I might try to hit the local salvage yard and pick one of these links up to try and tear apart but dont want to spend the money on it if someone else has experienced doing this.

Thanks for the Help

 

[miker104]

Here is the link:

http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/_pdf_en1/MOOG_PS_Bulletin_211002_ES800560_En.pdf

I have not done this job and would appreciate any feedback from those that may have replaced these end links.

 

[sillyjt]

i did the outer one. was fairly easy and straight forward. The Moog problemsolver is the one i used. I had to take off the outer one also and with that ran into a problem. Ford uses a finger type thing to hold the rod while you undo the nut holding it on. the finger bent and eventually came unwelded. i finally got it all off and before reinstalling tack welded the finger back in place. I have to do the passenger side soon. I will probably do it the same way, also have to do the rear bearing on that side. It was an easy job. good luck

 

[blueoval9erlifer]

ordered the parts from orielly's could have saved some with rock auto but need them before this weekend so i can do it then will post what it was like on both sides

 

[jstorm001]

I gotta do my rear toe links also the boots are torn and the rear both sides the upper control arms ball joints boots are torn also I think the cause of the failure of mine was rear broken struts springs which alot explorers have im going to order all the parts from auto parts warehouse toe links & control arms gonna cost about $750 free shipping. Was going to go with all OEM parts but the cost 10 times more.

 

[blueoval9erlifer]

Rear toe link (tie rod) replacement complete

Replaced both rear toe links this weekend with great success. i used the moog problem solver series es800560 inner toe link and the es800562 outer link. the pictures dont show this but the outer is the tie rod end with the link bar attached then you thread the inner one on so if your inner is not worn out you could reuse it if wanted. tools required were an 18 mm wrench tie rod end fork, 2lb sledge and a can of free-all. this process was very simple.

1) jack up vehicle take off rear tire and put jack stand in place.
2) spray everything taking apart with free all (pb blaster etc)
3) take loose inner nut and the outer nut dont take the outer one all the way off as you will have to tap on it with a hammer to get the bolt out and dont want to mess up the threads.
4) use your pickle fork and pound it in on the outer end to remove it, i had to spray with freeall and then pound the end back into place a couple of times in order to get the link completely out.
5) i then used a piece of wire to get all the dirt out of the hole the outer link goes into and sprayed it with freeall to get the rest out.
6) screw the outer and inner link parts together and make them as close to the same length as possible
7) i put a little bit of grease on the outer link and then slide inner link into position and start the nut.
8) slide the outer link into position then with a wood block and your hammer beat on it until the bolt will slide back into the holes to hold it into position.
9) tighten everything down
10 put wheel on and move to the other side.

dont over torque your lug nuts mine were so tight i could not get them off with out an impact wrench i believe 70 to 80 ft/lbs of torque is more than adequate.

this whole process for both sides took about 1 1/2 hours with some help from my dad.

sorry i dont have pictures i forgot my camera but its all pretty self explanatory if you look under your vehicle and not a hard job to do at all.

 

[HiImBrian]

dont over torque your lug nuts mine were so tight i could not get them off with out an impact wrench i believe 70 to 80 ft/lbs of torque is more than adequate
.

Just for the record lug nuts should be torqued to 105 ft-lbs. 70-80 ft-lbs is unsafe. Please do not post incorrect information.

 

[firefly1246]

This is just what I needed, I am doing this soon and couldn't find the part number for the inners. I already have the outers, and just put a coat of POR 15 on them. I will order the inners before I do the job.

So I was planning on replacing these as I keep having a high pitched squeak. I have used the forum to search what are the common pieces that speak. So I have replaced all for anti roll bar bushings, as those normally squeak, and the front upper ball joints with moog ones. These look like the issue as the boots are worn on mine. Does anyone else have any suggestions on which parts are squeakers. Thanks in advance.

Admin: can you sticky this. I was thinking to make it easier for the future, to have one how to sticky with links to each of the how to page. This would limit the quantity of stickys on the 1st page.

 

[seanmack]

For the outer toe link end.

Mine is not threaded and I ordered new Moog parts, same as your previous link. how do you replace the outer end if its crimped on? just hamer it in?
*** please tag or quote me for a notification.
I Have order the new parts and on way. but if I have to return and order the Entire bar with ends then i would like to do that asap. THANKS!

 

[Boy447374]

i did the outer one. was fairly easy and straight forward. The Moog problemsolver is the one i used. I had to take off the outer one also and with that ran into a problem. Ford uses a finger type thing to hold the rod while you undo the nut holding it on. the finger bent and eventually came unwelded. i finally got it all off and before reinstalling tack welded the finger back in place. I have to do the passenger side soon. I will probably do it the same way, also have to do the rear bearing on that side. It was an easy job. good luck

Which side does the washer go on? Not the finger thingy but the round flat washer. Inner,next to the finger thingy, or outer next to the nut?

 

[imp]

Just for the record lug nuts should be torqued to 105 ft-lbs. 70-80 ft-lbs is unsafe. Please do not post incorrect information.

@HilmBrian
1/2-20 Grade 8 Bolt Torque recommended = 90 lbs-ft. While I know I've seen the 105 recommendation, I won't adhere to it. The statement relating to safety is not close to being true.

See: Bolt Depot - US Recommended Bolt Torque Table

 

[domct203]

@HilmBrian
1/2-20 Grade 8 Bolt Torque recommended = 90 lbs-ft. While I know I've seen the 105 recommendation, I won't adhere to it. The statement relating to safety is not close to being true.

See: Bolt Depot - US Recommended Bolt Torque Table

Ford’s torque spec for the lugs is 105 ft lbs. This is based on the material used for both fasteners, as well as their Rockwell hardness.

The torque table you reference is for standard fasteners, not specialty fasteners like wheel studs/lugs.

70-90 ft lbs is under torqued and dangerous.

 

[imp]

Ford’s torque spec for the lugs is 105 ft lbs. This is based on the material used for both fasteners, as well as their Rockwell hardness.

The torque table you reference is for standard fasteners, not specialty fasteners like wheel studs/lugs.

70-90 ft lbs is under torqued and dangerous.

@domct203
I won't argue with you, beyond stating that I hope you understand fully the torque/tension relationship of threaded fasteners, and that Grade 8 fasteners have yield strength values way up there with respect to the ultimate strength values......what that means is that Grade 8 bolts can more easily be tightened too much, compared to say, Grade 5. In fact, many competition designers prefer Grade 5 fasteners for their race cars, to Grade 8.

To achieve the necessary strength of material to justify tightening 1/2-20 fasteners to 105 lbs-ft might require exotic high-alloy materials, which I would be quite surprised to find used in a high-volume production vehicle. If you like, I'll prepare a graph showing how close to ultimate strength 105 lbs-ft brings a 1/2-20 fastener. OTOH, maybe we'll both be surprised to learn 90 lbs-ft as specified is low, as a CYA factor. imp

 

[domct203]

@domct203
I won't argue with you, beyond stating that I hope you understand fully the torque/tension relationship of threaded fasteners, and that Grade 8 fasteners have yield strength values way up there with respect to the ultimate strength values......what that means is that Grade 8 bolts can more easily be tightened too much, compared to say, Grade 5. In fact, many competition designers prefer Grade 5 fasteners for their race cars, to Grade 8.

To achieve the necessary strength of material to justify tightening 1/2-20 fasteners to 105 lbs-ft might require exotic high-alloy materials, which I would be quite surprised to find used in a high-volume production vehicle. If you like, I'll prepare a graph showing how close to ultimate strength 105 lbs-ft brings a 1/2-20 fastener. OTOH, maybe we'll both be surprised to learn 90 lbs-ft as specified is low, as a CYA factor. imp

I am a Maufacturing Engineer, and I am familiar with material yield under torque. It’s all about the “stretch”.

I find it puzzling, that with nothing more than assumptions on stud and nut material, as well as no info on material grain structure, material hardness, and the effects of centrifugal forces, you feel that you know the application better than the Design/Mechanical Engineers at Ford.

I doubt Ford uses ‘bolt depot’ torque specs.

 

[imp]

I am a Maufacturing Engineer, and I am familiar with material yield under torque. It’s all about the “stretch”.

I find it puzzling, that with nothing more than assumptions on stud and nut material, as well as no info on material grain structure, material hardness, and the effects of centrifugal forces, you feel that you know the application better than the Design/Mechanical Engineers at Ford.

I doubt Ford uses ‘bolt depot’ torque specs.

@domct203
Don't be puzzled! Now I know by your reply that you are aware of the aspects I'm talking about. Yes, I have no doubt Ford Engineers are pretty reliable, while at the same time engineering a product for SALE rather than plant use, let's say, involves a very deeply defined path of cost-savings while entertaining considerations of safety. I wrote with the assumption that cost to employ fasteners of higher ultimate strength than grade 8 would be higher than simply employing larger fasteners, spacing them farther apart, etc.

I did a quick calculation before referring to certified values for Grade 8 fasteners. 1/2-20 bolts or studs torqued to 100 lbs-ft will be subjected to a tensile force level of about 10,000 lbs. That would correspond to a tensile stress of 80,000 psi. ASTM J-429 Grade 8 spec. for bolts 1/2 to 1-1/2" in diam. must have a proof strength of at least 120,000 psi and a tensile strength of 150,000.

OK, so I'll concede that 80,000 psi is acceptable using Grade 8. Given other factors though, for me it's a bit too close. Being that you yourself are engaged in work of this nature, do you have any info at hand regarding the material Ford specifies for wheel lugs and nuts? I'd be interested to find out. If you aren't familiar with torque/tension calculations, I'll be glad to explain how we did them when instrumenting engine cylinder head bolts with strain gages. The actual measured loads on the bolts corresponded very closely with calculated values based on torque applied. imp

 

[mountaineer2004]

My brain hurts from all these numbers I've been rotating tires for more than 30 years. My method of tightening lug nuts is simple. I tighten them as much as I can with a 3 foot cheater bar. Maybe I've just been lucky, but my wheels have never fallen off.

 

[imp]

My brain hurts from all these numbers I've been rotating tires for more than 30 years. My method of tightening lug nuts is simple. I tighten them as much as I can with a 3 foot cheater bar. Maybe I've just been lucky, but my wheels have never fallen off.

@mountaineer2004
Sorry about that! Have you ever broken one off? imp

 

[mountaineer2004]

^^ Haha! No, not yet ... does that mean I should start working out?

 

[TechGuru]

If you'd rather replace the whole thing Dorman sells complete rear tie rods but probably won't be as good as Moog's ends...

The Dorman's do require that you grind down the grease cap if you have 16" wheels.

 

[Drewmcg]

This is off topic (more or less) to the OP, but in Ford's 2004 Explorer Owner's Manual (3rd printing)--available online--at page 206, under "Roadside Emergencies," it specifies a torque of 100 ft lbs for wheel lugs. This recommendation appears to persist through the remaining Gen 3 and Gen 4 years. (I did not see a torque specification for earlier years.) For '04, see: 2004 Ford Explorer Owner Manuals & Warranties | Official Ford Owner Site .

I've always used 100 ft lbs, find this to be very tight, and would not use anything more. Not sure where HilmBrian got the 105 ft lb spec, but it was not from the (online) Ford Explorer Owner's Manual. That makes his post kinda ironic, actually.