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05 exp P2104,2110,2111,2112

Discussion in 'Stock 2002 - 2005 Explorers' started by High_Order1, April 26, 2008.

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    1. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      (I tried to post this in 'under the hood' somewhere so it would get more attention, but I think it went in the wrong place. As a thread hijack, is a pre or 1st gen can bus = one of the eec pcms? Which category should it have gone into?)



      Ok,

      So, I am driving with the windows down, and I am singing (it was a great day in tennessee and I was going home). Suddenly, I see a big yellow wrench, the warning chime, the computer says "ENGINE FAILSAFE MODE" and I have no throttle. Just Idle.

      I limp it to Auto Zone (Ford wanted $75 to scan me). They give me the following codes:

      P2104 - TAC forced idle FMEM mode
      P2110 - TAC forced limited RPM
      P2111 - TAC stuck open
      P2112 - TAC stuck closed

      (TAC = Throttle Actuator Control)

      So, I do the pinpoint tests in the service DVD, and the throttle position sensor failed two of the four tests. I couldn't do the PID tests, though.

      Nobody around here had a new one. No dealership in the region had one. It had to come from atlanta.

      So, I yank the throttle body, pull the old TPS off, pop the new one on. Seems fine round town driving.

      Next day, it does the same crap on the Interstate. Three times, once in the morning and twice in the hot evening.

      I go back to AZ and its' the same set of codes.

      SO, now what do I do? Help?


      -Shawn
       
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    3. Donner

      Donner Explorer Addict

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      Hi there... What type of vehicle (05 Exp 4dr, ST, 4x4, AWD) are we talking about? What year, engine, etc... thanks!
       
    4. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      Hey -

      thanks for responding!

      This one is a 2005 explorer 4dr 4wd with the vin code K (flex fuel) 6 cylinder engine. around 80k on the clock.


      -Shawn
       
    5. JohnJ

      JohnJ Active Member

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      I haven't gotten one of these yet, but just feel like adding my two cents. On Ford trucks with electronically controlled throttle body (not cable operated) I have found that these units fail quite a bit. Luckily, the local Ford dealers keep a supply of reman throttle bodies in stock for sale at about $60 or so with core if memory serves. They're somehow cheaper than a cable operated TB or a MAF. This was a surprise to me. Also, before condemning a throttle body, be sure you haven't got a spread wiring terminal or a wire break right at the terminal. This is also fairly common.
       
    6. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      NO kidding.

      I wished I had known that before I shelled out 75 for the tps alone..... I will check the wiring, too. Is this at the PCM end, the TB end, or both?


      -Shawn
       
    7. JohnJ

      JohnJ Active Member

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      At the TB end.
       
    8. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      hm -


      well, the harness appears to be ok. Anybody got anything else?? Its' parked until I can figure this out because I am afraid of wrecking it.



      -Shawn
       
    9. REDBOAT

      REDBOAT New Member

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      Shawn, I had similar issues and all the same codes and was frustruated and took it to the dealer to fix. The reflashed the PCM and put in a new throttle body. I was also told the Engine Failsafe Mode was V8 specific but some of the early 05 V6 models had that in their programming.
       
    10. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      Thanks, boat.

      Its' looking like it will be one of the two. I did ask a couple of the local dealerships about the reman, one actually laughed at me. 175 new from them. There is a place in minnesota that has some wrecked pulls, but they want $75 plus fairly hefty shipping for what it is.

      Doesn't sound like I am escaping this cheaply, huh?


      -Shawn
       
    11. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      I am about to be sick to my stomach.

      Well,

      just got in from the dealership.


      They say that I have a failing PCM, and they want around a grand to replace it.

      They wouldn't even look at the paint problem until I made them, and they didn't write it on the bill.

      They said, quote, "We ain't never seen chippin' like that before. It musta had some body work done to it. We can't see no tape lines or anything, but that must be what that is."

      I suggest the TSB's about iron contamination, and they stare at me.

      The best part is they charged me almost 90 dollars to tell me that. Which included a 7.50 environmental fee.

      But I got a free paper floor mat and hang tag out of it, so who screwed who, huh?? lol


      Questions at this point:

      Can a PCM intermittently fail? And in only one area? I always thought they either worked, or they didn't.

      Can I buy a junker and make it work?

      Isn't there some vehicle-specific data in there that would have to be overwritten?

      Can it be done without crawling back to the dealership?


      Oh - and I found a gallon of water in the passenger side rear floorboards today. I park on a hill, and when I rolled backwards to a flat spot, I heard a literal 'slosh' sound, like I had water in a big cooler or something.


      I'll be honest with you guys. At this point, I am not really very impressed with this car. It looks great, but it sorta is looking like a grease rack queen.


      Can *anyone* offer some help, here?


      Thanks,

      -Shawn
       
    12. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      bump - help?
       
    13. rrgone

      rrgone Active Member

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      Sorry Shawn. I gotta think you're gonna have to get this installed by the dealer. Any other module I would be willing to give it a shot with a used one, but not the PCM. Maybe if you were sure it came from the same model, same engine, made at about the same time in the same plant as yours it would be worth a try... That's just my .02. Good luck man.
       
    14. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      so.............

      noone has any idea how to fix this? I really, really could use some help right now.



      -Shawn
       
    15. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      Well -

      If anyone is keeping track: I could fix this myself, if I had the proper scantool. I don't. I found a couple of places on the net purporting to sell replacement ones, but with the caveat that the PASS and vehicle - specific data has to be punched in by a dealer or someone with that 2 grand tool.

      The dealer says it will cost $89 an hour (2 hr's at least), and if the box doesn't have the correct calibration in it it will not work. Period.

      I did find out what the part number for the PCM is (a dealership guy took pity on me and looked it up in their database), and I did find the teartag. It is nowhere near the PCM. It is on the door sticker in the lower right corner.

      So, that's where that is. It still hasn't moved, and now I am fighting the mice to keep them from building a nest in my 3 year old SUV. *sigh*


      -Shawn
       
    16. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      two months later -

      still broken. I have found a couple of places that will sell me the part, one says he can program it. I finally found the tear tag. It is *totally* hidden by the bracket. It is on the thin rear edge opposite the jacks.

      Once I get one that's programmed, I can swap it myself in the parking lot of the locksmith shop, who says they will be able to put my pats data back into it for 30 bucks, making this approximately a 500 dollar problem instead of a 1400 dollar one.

      -Shawn
       
    17. REDBOAT

      REDBOAT New Member

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      Wow what a PITA this is turning out to be for you!!! Sure do hope it is the PCM and not some other goofy problem. Please post back once you get it fixed and let us know if the PCM fixed the problem.
       
    18. rrgone

      rrgone Active Member

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      Shawn, How about an update on this issue?
       
    19. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      k

      Sure...

      lessee, I got the pcm in. So I took the old one apart (I have pix somewhere). Couldn't observe anything smoked, and it all was covered in that don't-fix-me-glue so no bench testing.

      Limped the vehicle down to the locksmith, took about 5 minutes to swap pcms, the little girl came out with the programmer, and 20 minutes (thanks, anti theft feature in the programmer) that was done. Two more minutes to self program the remaining keys and keyfobs, and drove away.

      Never had another pcm related problem since and IIRC, only was out around 350.00.


      I did amass quite a bit of pcm data, and had intentions of sharing, but no one really seemed interested, so I just filed it all away.


      Main lessons learned =

      First - don't trust a simple scan tool. I have determined they are shills for the big box part stores. Sure, you need this part, now you need that part. Kinda like an amputee thinking his (missing) leg hurts, if the pcm is going out, it will tell you all sorts of crazy stuff, and a basic reader won't tell you any different.

      It took me a scan tool that let me observe data in real time, and a volt meter to decide that the sensors weren't at fault AFTER buying a couple of them.

      Second, don't trust a dealership or mechanic shop. Both told me that I could not NOT repeat NOT solve a pcm problem all by my lonesome, but they could for many many dollars. Not true by a long shot.

      Third - that flash scare is a big bunch of hooey. The PCM has to be the physically correct one, but someone with the proper passthrough tool can put whatever they need to in there, including a lot of stuff I didn't think could get altered. Whether they admit to it or not is another thing entirely.

      What that means in Shawntalk is that you can potentially scrounge a junkyard looking for a donor pcm, but you will need someone with the passthrough and a motorcraft account. It (for me) was easier to use an online service. I sent them the tear tag data, and my debit card number, and a replacement with warranty arrived on my doorstep.

      Lastly, if you are having pcm problems, don't keep driving it. There is a LOT of stuff that is controlled by it. Don't have it go WOT and request reverse at the same time (prolly not possible, but I can't say positively.)

      I am sure there were other things, but they are lost to the fog of time. :roll:

      Now, I am on the oh-crap-now-the-tranny-is-going problem....

      Thanks for asking!

      -Shawn
       
    20. rrgone

      rrgone Active Member

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      Thank you for the update. It's pretty amazing what a person can do with the internet for research and a good dose of stubborness!

      Which online seller did you go to for the replacement PCM? And it was just plug and play except for reprogramming the PATS and making keys?

      Glad that it worked out for you.
       
    21. DenverExp

      DenverExp New Member

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      Very interesting information...thanks for documenting your solution here for us.

      Jason
       
    22. High_Order1

      High_Order1 Active Member

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      rr - yeah, really it was. pull the negative, unbolt two bolts, unscrew the captive screw and unsnap (carefully! those things are POPULATED) three connectors, and basically wiggle it out.

      Yank it from the mount, put the new one in, and reverse.

      Now, the company needed some data. I know the tear tag was involved. THAT SUMBITCH was nearly impossible to find. It in my case was entirely hidden by the mounting bracket. There are other ways to find that data, but they are variable. (Ford keeps that data, and you can access it from motorcraft for free, but I forget now how I found the request page).

      In addition, I think they needed to know trans type, engine size and type, rear end size, and something else. I forget.

      So, that was all in there. I was worried about the stereo, and the dash, and a bunch of other things not liking the new kid at all. Not a single hitch. PASS data was absolutely simple, and I coulda let them program the rest of the keys / fobs, but I am a cheap bastard.

      Honestly, it was that simple.

      I forget the name of the company, and I never did post it here b/c I was unsure about outside vendor links, but let me tell you - I have RARELY ever had someone who wasn't even sure they were getting a sale help me so much. I found out later they had a BBB score of F, so I wrote the BBB and told them what they did for me.

      It was a place in Florida, and if it will really help, in January when I pull all my files for tax season, I will leave myself a note to look for the bill. (Course, I'll look sooner if someone is in immediate need.)

      Jason,

      thanks! It was a horrible time for me. I didn't get a lot of help from a lot of people that could have helped. Dealerships laughed at me. Seriously. Parts stores either had no clue, or wanted to sell me a scan tool. There wasn't much on the net pulled together at all, and what was was mostly conjecture. The service DVD was absolutely the most important thing I had. It allowed me to test, pin by pin, seeing if there was a bad connector, an intermittent wire, or a faulty sensor. I literally ran out of things it could be, and that's when I got the PCM's never go partially bad, they either work or they don't speech. Repeatedly.

      That, my friends, is BS.

      Turns out there are entire series of ECU's / PCM's (see, they can't even keep the terminology the same to help when searching) that came from sort of the same places that all experienced the same type of issues due to crappy caps, or solder failures. I found stuff in mazda and toyota forums that finally led me to the cause and solution.

      Months of reading on dialup, dudes. :confused:

      I am just blessed that it is over, really. And, if I start getting weird problems again, I can figure it out about 500 times faster and have it back on the road in a week, not in 3-4 months.
       

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