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2002 Ford Explorer won't start!!!

Discussion in 'Stock 2002 - 2005 Explorers' started by young804, April 26, 2010.

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    1. young804

      young804 New Member

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      It was driving fine went fishing tried to start up and it wouldnt do anything.Lights windows radio all work but when you turn the key it does nothing.. You can hear relays or something but doesnt crank.. First replaced the battery ($110) that didnt work.. Next replaced starter ($165) didnt work..Purchased code reader($100) NO CODES. Then someone got it started by rigging up something I dont kno lol Im kno mechanic lol But anyway he told me I needed a Neutral Saftey Switch ($52) put it on and NOTHING.......$427 and still my truck will not start...Now im hearing about my anti theft system needs to be reset.... Any advice will help!!!! Thanks
       
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    3. hoss_hanna

      hoss_hanna Active Member

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      did he do a jump across on the celeinoid to get it started? if so try replacing that
       
    4. 1ATony

      1ATony EF Vendor

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      Welcome to the site.
       
    5. BrooklynBay

      BrooklynBay Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    6. young804

      young804 New Member

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      @ Hoss Hanna yeah I think thats what its called... @ BrooklynBay Yes I tried another key and that didnt work.. Does anyone kno how much it cost to reset anti theft????? Thanks for the help....
       
    7. hoss_hanna

      hoss_hanna Active Member

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      if it jumped across the Solenoid then it is probably just a bad Solenoid, might have em check the one on the new starter ive seen new parts be bad before, and ill look into how to reset the anti theft, but im no pro at that so wish me luck....
       
    8. hoss_hanna

      hoss_hanna Active Member

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      a friend i called about it just now said to put into "learn key mode" or something like that, im not up on alot of the new stuff. he said he thought it should still crank evan if it wont start....
       
    9. xTOM153x

      xTOM153x Active Member

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      The same exact thing happened to me. Check the alternator
       
    10. leapyear

      leapyear New Member

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      me too

      i've had the same problem. i checked the battery and starter, both of which tested good. how would i check the alternator? i've read about a security chip in the key and "pats", but i'm not sure how to check those.
       
    11. jluv

      jluv Guest

      Same issue here. It was working fine all day, then suddenly won't start. Has plenty of power. Checked the fuel shutoff switch (passenger side kick panel) and starter/ignition relay (spot 12 in the under-hood fuse box), it was fine.

      I don't want to replace the starter if that's not the issue.

      Anyone???
       
    12. MikePf

      MikePf New Member

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      Same as the first persons post. My son was driving and then it just died in the intersection. Had it towed home. Power to lights radio etc. You could hear relays but, would not start. Found the PCM relay was not energized. Checked the PCM diode and it was fine. However, there was no power at the diode. Power comes from the ignition switch. Schematics did not list the fuse that was between the ignition switch and the diode. Found the 15 amp fuse F41 blown. Replaced the fuse and everything worked.
       
    13. MikePf

      MikePf New Member

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      Follow up

      Problem occurred again. F41 feeds the PCM relay, 4 02 sensors and 3 EVAP units. I found that one of the wires on the 02 sensors dropped down and came in contact with the drive shaft. I repaired the damaged wires and replaced the fuse. Hope this helps everyone.

      Just following up after a week. No further problems.
       
      Last edited: February 15, 2011
    14. D Hook

      D Hook Elite Explorer

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      Thanks for posting the two follow ups. Very helpful!
       
    15. Marlon65

      Marlon65 New Member

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      I just want to share my experience as related to this same problem. My 2004 Explorer sunddenly won't start during a weekend at home. I remember its battery is about a year and a half old, i said maybe it's about time to replace it. That late Saturday afternoon, I tried to jump start it with my 2nd car. But to my surprise, it won't start. I tried several times, reving up the 2nd car to around 3000 RPM just to ensure a stronger battery source, still no use. I decided to call it a day, and i'll check the Internet for any help anyway.
      I tried checking all the fuses after seeing the F41 fuse to be ok. But all fuses were ok. I said i'll call my friend mechanic in the morning since it might be a starter solenoid problem. When my mechanic came, he noticed the negative round connector to the terminal to be corroded, full of mold and damp. He said starters and solenoid does not give a problem easily. He detached the negative connector, cleaned it with a steel brush in all sides, and cleaned the terminals too. He also cleaned the positive side anyway, connector and terminal. He was done in 10 minutes. When he started my 7-yr-old car at 101,000 kms, it cranked and started in just one try. After some friendly talk, i started it myself too after around 5 minutes, again it worked.
      Lessons learnt, even if the battery connections seems to be ok since all lights were working, the starter needs a very strong connection for starting, so check the connection between connectors and terminals first before even replacing the battery.
       
    16. BDawson1234

      BDawson1234 New Member

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      2004 Expl. AWD. When I diag. a "no crank" I start small. Check all fuses and relays. Horn relay was the same as the starter relay and is on most apps. so if the horn honks you can pull it and test the starter relay by replacing it with a "known good relay". If all fuses and relays are good, put a volt meter on the solinoid and see if you get voltage when key is turned. If not, then the passave anti-theft system is probly to blame. I keep reading horr storys about the PCM droping codes after batt dies. It's 120 bucks at the dealer to recoad it. A lock smith came and tryed but got a error code "no key found" so if I ever change a batt on a ford again I'll put a charger on the connections to keep the PCM hot durning the swap. ;)
       
    17. Pontisteve

      Pontisteve Active Member

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      You should read this thread first...

      http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287097

      If that's not your problem, get under the truck with a voltmeter and test to see if there is any power at the small wire going to the starter. That's the wire that signals the solenoid to connect the battery cable with the starter, providing the power.

      Here's the electrical path for the starter relay wire:

      There is a fuse (F2.29) in the central junction box that is hot when the ignition switch is in the start position. This power source then goes to the Digital Transmission Range sensor (which acts as a neutral safety switch). If it passes thru this switch, it then goes to the starter relay to power it up. The PCM provides the ground for this starter relay.

      Here's the path for the starter signal wire:

      The battery junction box has a 50amp fuse (F1.12) that sends a power source to the starter relay. When the relay is activated (via the system mentioned above), that power comes out of the relay and to the starter solenoid. There, it activates the solenoid, which connects the big battery power to the starter.

      The big battery power circuit is like this:

      The battery has 2 grounds. One goes to the body near the battery. That grounds pretty much everything but the starter. The big negative battery cable goes to the block, and that provides a ground path for the starter. The positive battery cable goes straight to the starter motor.

      In the thread mentioned at the top of this page, the 4.6 engines have this + battery cable, an AC wire, and a few other wires (probably including the starter solenoid wire!) going thru a harness that passes over the plastic oil filter drain spill. The plastic drain cuts thru the protective plastic and eats into the wires. Usually, the first problem people have is their AC quits working. But the starter cable wires can get cut thru, as well as the starter solenoid wire if its in there, which I think it is.

      Check this first! Under the car, look upward straight in front of the front differential, and look at the wiring harness that's passing right by the plastic oil drain. See if it's damaged. If it is repair it.

      If that's not your problem, start testing at the starter relay. Try a known good relay for a quick check of that, and if not, start testing to see if the power is coming into and going out of that relay as it should.

      The DTR sensor (park/neutral switch) is not known to be a big issue in these vehicles, as far as I know. So don't throw parts at this truck. Throw diagnostic time at the electrical system. All you need is a voltmeter and a wiring diagram.
       
    18. FordProblem2003

      FordProblem2003 New Member

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      I have a 2003 ford explorer that will not start tried everything I could think of the only problem is, is the starter relay fuse that I can think of cause its not seeming to get enough connection to start it. So I took the starter relay fuse out and tested the prons for it and 4 out of 5 were good so i just started my truck using a wire till I can figure out why its not starting or getting enough power to start it with my key?? I tried explaing best I could if anyone could help pleasee!!
       
    19. Pontisteve

      Pontisteve Active Member

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      Your message doesn't quite make sense. But I'm going to help you anyway. Here's how the starter control circuit works:

      The starter motor has a direct large 12v connection to the battery, via the red battery cable. All the starter is waiting for is a low amperage signal from the starter relay to go to the starter solenoid. Once the solenoid gets that low amperage signal, it engages the starter and draws power for the starter from the battery cable.

      The starter relay has two sides. The control side, and the load side. The control side is what powers the relay up, and the load side is what passes power thru the relay to the starter solenoid on the starter.

      The load side of the relay:

      Fuse 1.12 (a large 50 amp fuse in the Battery Junction Box) is hot at all times. So if you use a voltmeter or test light, you should get power on both sides of the fuse. You can test this without removing the fuse, by simply touching your voltmeter or test light to both of the terminals that stick up thru the fuse. This fuse is hot at all times, and sends power through a light green/violet 12 gage wire to the starter relay (pin 30). This is where the relay's load side gets its POWER from.

      When the control side of the relay is activated, pin 30 on the starter relay connects to pin 87, which sends that power to the starter solenoid via a 12 gage yellow/light blue wire. This is where the relay's load side sends it's POWER to.

      The control side of the relay:

      Fuse 2.29 (a 10 amp fuse in the Central Junction Box) sends power when your ignition switch is in the START mode, throughg a 20 gage red/light blue wire to the Digital Transmission Range sensor. Think of this as a neutral safety switch. It's on the side of the transmission. If your transmission is in either Park or Neutral, that power goes thru this switch and comes out as a 20 gage white/pink wire, which goes to the starter relay's control side positive (pin 85 on the relay).

      The PCM, if it wants to allow the engine to start, sends a ground signal through a 20 gage orange wire to the starter relay's control side negative (pin 86 on the relay).

      So check Fuse 1.12 (50 amp) in the fuse box under the hood, to make sure both sides have power all the time.

      Then check fuse 2.29 (10 amp) in the fuse box under the dash, to make sure that while you are holding the key in the START position, that this fuse has power on both sides of it.

      Now unplug the starter relay (which is in the fuse box under the hood), and identify (by looking at the diagram on the relay) which terminals are your four relay pins that go to this relay. And remember, if you flip the relay upside down, you'll be backwards in the diagram. So try to hold the relay just as it was when it was plugged in, and identify which of the 4 wires are pins 30, 87, 85, and 86. Make a diagram for yourself.

      The wire that would have plugged into pin 30 should be 12v all the time. Pin 87 should have ground all the time (when the relay is not activating the starter anyway). Pin 85 should have power only when you are trying to start the car. Pin 39 should have ground only when you are starting the car.
       
    20. gzimm01

      gzimm01 New Member

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      no crank issue

      I'm trying to diagnose a "no crank" problem. I have referenced the other thread on diagnosing a "no crank" problem also. Bottom line is I don't have voltage to pin 85 on the control side of the starter relay. I have tried a new DTR sensor, problem seems to be no input voltage to the DTR via the red/light blue wire. All fuses and voltages seem to be good. There isn't any reference to other circuits in Hayes starter system wiring diagram. I have tried both keys and I don't have any indication of a "PATS" problem.

      History: engine was removed and repaired due to bent connecting rod in #3 similar to other threads on 4.0 (another story). During this time the battery was disconnected for over 1 month. There were not any cranking/PATS issues prior to repair.

      P.S. - not a starter motor or engine issue, motor spins freely with starter when I jumper the pins #3 0 to #87 with the relay removed.
       
    21. Pontisteve

      Pontisteve Active Member

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      I have th Ford EVTM manual for an 03 explorer. What do you need to know?
       
    22. gzimm01

      gzimm01 New Member

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      no crank / starting circuit

      are there any other circuits/influences attached to the "starting system" circuit that affect voltage to the DTR input voltage red/light blue wire? should I look at something else ? does the battery being disconnected for a long time affect anything in the starting circuit ( ie.. pcm, PATS, etc )?
       
    23. Pontisteve

      Pontisteve Active Member

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      The starting circuit looks pretty basic. Here's the rundown.

      Fuse 1.12 (50A) in the battery junction box should be hot at all times. It sends power to the LOAD side of the starter relay. When the relay is energized, that power goes to the starter solenoid.

      Fuse 2.29 (Hot in Start) (10A) in the central junction box sends power to the DTR sensor. When in Park or neutral, the DTR sends that power out to the CONTROL side of the starter relay, as a +. The PCM grounds the - side of the CONTROL side of the starter relay.

      So you have fuse 2.29 getting power from the ignition switch somewhere, when you are in "start" position. That power goes into the DTR, and if it's in park or neutral, power comes out of the DTR and to the starter relay.

      Since you're asking about DTR input voltage, let me look at just that for a minute...

      Ok, fuse 2.29 is used for both the DTR sensor input, and also to power up fuse 2.28 (5A), which is circuit 1003, which is the audio unit (radio). I suppose if the radio was pulling this circuit to ground, you could have a problem... but that should just pop that 5A fuse if that were the case.

      Fuse 2.29 gets its power from circuit 50, which is position 3 (start) at the ignition switch. That would be a 14 gauge red wire (pin 7 on the ignition switch).

      The ignition switch itself gets power from a 12 gauge yellow wire (circuit 37) powered up by fuse F1.23 (30A) (Hot at all times) in the battery junction box.

      So to summarize, here's the power flow:

      Fuse 1.23 in BJB > pin 4 in Ignition Switch > "START" position > pin 7 in Ignition Switch > Fuse 2.29 in Central Junction Box > DTR sensor > Park or Neutral position > contact #85 on the starter relay (white/pink wire).
       
    24. Pontisteve

      Pontisteve Active Member

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      That's the power supply chain to the starter relay. The PCM is the sole ground to the control side of the starter relay. In this case, it's only going to be PATS that might hold you up. But PATS doesn't interrupt the starter relay. It lets the vehicle start, and then kills it.

      I'm not sure offhand what the conditions are for the PCM to ground the starter relay. We can look into that if we need to, but if you aren't getting power to the #85 on the starter relay, we need to backtrack that instead.

      In fact, the EVTM doesn't say what the PCM grounding conditions are. You would have to find that in the service manual. I think I have that on .pdf if we need it.

      I would say check fuse 2.29 for power on both sides of that fuse when you hit the start position. If you have power there, and not at the DTR sensor, then it's a problem with the wire or the connectors between that fuse and the DTR. There is a connector on the central junction box, a connector on the DTR sensor, and another connector C110 in the middle.

      It's possible there is corrosion at C110. That connector is on the engine bulkhead, RH side. That's right above the PCM connector, on the firewall, the middle of 3 connectors, right near the speed control actuator.
       
    25. gzimm01

      gzimm01 New Member

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      I think there is a disconnect between 2002 and 2003 fuses. no 2.29 in my 2002 manual for the passenger compartment fuse panel is for "4x4,GEM module, ABS control and Moon roof" which function/fuse are you referencing ? I will check DTR connector and the bulkhead connector ..
       
    26. Pontisteve

      Pontisteve Active Member

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      My 03 lists F2.29 as the power source for the DTR sensor. The 2002's were apparently split years, early and late. Looks like the late might be the same as 03's, so you must have the early build.

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