2003 Sport XLT

Got an explorer sport XLT 2 door. It was in an accident recently. Vehicle tipped onto the left side and hit the guard rail but bounced back on its tires. Let's just say it left a crease on the roof. I'm looking the fix the roof. My thoughts are this: pull back on the door posts and quarter windows post if possible, then cut the rest off and make a canvas or fiberglass top for the rest. Any suggestions?

 

[MONMIX]

Idk...it just depends if you do it right...and apparently in the eyes of the state of Illinois what I did was fine...just depends on who does and how it's done..everything can be restructured..even past factory strong

NO it is not right. Show me ANY documentation that Ford's engineers approve of clipping and splicing. Now me ANY A.S.E. or I-CAR document that allows for structural splicing.
Looks only matter for looks. That car most likely WILL NOT perform correctly in a collision. You show your complete lack of understanding by saying it is "past factory strong" You have no clue what these metals are meant to do and not do.
" I never had a problem" A hacks favorite cop out line. You are a ****ing hack. You are an embarrassment to this industry.

And you are going to trust some pencil pusher with a state government job to tell you your repair is structurally correct. That some guy who uses AAA to change his flat tire is going to tell you it is okay to do what Fords's engineers and countless experts at A.S.E. and I-CAR say is NOT an approved repair method.

I pray for the safety of the customers that come in your shop.

 

[MrXanyBar]

For one i didn't say (MINE WAS BUILT MORE STRUCTUAL) I SAID it can be done...im not trying to start some huge argument..and it was sarcasm about the state of Illinois...if you knew anything about the state you would of realised that...dont give me any lecture with I car in the sentance..we get you been taking 2 hour courses in a warehouse garage and fill in little circles at the end. We all do it...now to say I'm an embarrassment I've been doing this since 15...i have ten years of decent experience im sure you have more obviously.....but I'm in the shop everyday and night and I like how you said "most likely" so you can't back yourself up 100% proving that maybe a clipped car will not fail any worse than manufactured made...theres a reason this shop gets state farm,progressive, country financial work within 100 miles...with 99% rating..sooo don't call me an embarrassment when I'm out every night...youre the one that sounds like a pencil pusher...why not clip a car? No faith in your work?...wasnt trying to be a dick but you're annoying and rude.

 

[MrXanyBar]

And also...i never said ford approves of this? Of course they don't approve...lol wth.

 

[cirusc02]

The air bags never deployed. Plus the insurance never looked at the car. So the title is still clean. Yeah it will show that it was in an accident, but that only counts if I sell it. As for cutting and splicing, I'm only removing the roof braces and pushing/pulling the front door posts out less than an inch. The second post by the pop out windows maybe just over and inch. The rear posts are no more. I won't even try them. Ordering and welding new roof braces will keep it straight. i figured adding a roll bar from the rear up would add to is as well. We'll see how it goes. I would hate to scrap or sell for parts as I've kept up with maintenance. Still runs clean and smooth.

I should note this happened while only traveling 35mph before it slide, tipped, hit and bounce back. I figured it was below 20 when it tipped. The left side has minor dents but no scratches. So it wasn't on its side for very long.

 

[skoville]

Sounds to me you know what you have and when to give up the ghost.It looks worse that you have explain. To be honest, I don't get many "fix It Solutions" but a lot of discouragement. I haven't gotten any thing about wiring or Fixing AC or Cruise control.. Time to get a Chilton Repair book. .

 

[MONMIX]

For one i didn't say (MINE WAS BUILT MORE STRUCTUAL) I SAID it can be done...im not trying to start some huge argument..and it was sarcasm about the state of Illinois...if you knew anything about the state you would of realised that...dont give me any lecture with I car in the sentance..we get you been taking 2 hour courses in a warehouse garage and fill in little circles at the end. We all do it...now to say I'm an embarrassment I've been doing this since 15...i have ten years of decent experience im sure you have more obviously.....but I'm in the shop everyday and night and I like how you said "most likely" so you can't back yourself up 100% proving that maybe a clipped car will not fail any worse than manufactured made...theres a reason this shop gets state farm,progressive, country financial work within 100 miles...with 99% rating..sooo don't call me an embarrassment when I'm out every night...youre the one that sounds like a pencil pusher...why not clip a car? No faith in your work?...wasnt trying to be a dick but you're annoying and rude.

Can it be done? Sure, and you can also fix a broken leg with duct tape, but is that the best way to do it? No.
Cars nowadays use multiple different metals that are treated differently and installed in very specific manners and ways to channel the energy of a collision around the passenger compartment. Altering these metals,changing the type of metal, changing the thickness or size of the metal, changing the angles, changing the number of welds, the locations of the welds, the type of welds, all these things WILL ALTER how the structure will perform in a collision. It WILL ALTER how the vehicle directs the energy of the collision around the passenger compartment. This is the very reason sectioning and clipping is NOT a recommended repair method.
Did you know some metals on cars, their strength can be reduced as as much as 60% simply by adding heat ? Did you know some metals on cars nowadays can not be moved more than 1/8 of an inch without sacrificing structural integrity ? Did you know some cars on the road today CAN NOT be pulled at all. Not even a morgan knocker ? Strict replacement. I too am in the shop every day. I have been in the shop for almost thirty years. Do you know where else I have been? In the classroom. I-CAR, I hold a Platinum certificate in structural and non structural. A.S.E. classroom. A.S.E. master in collision repair. I went to training in Atlanta Georgia for my Porsche certification, and I work in a Porsche certified repair shop. I also have Honda, Nissan and Toyota factory training. Not to mention who knows how much through on-line sources and industry publications. You have ten years in the shop? I might have that much in the classroom learning from people who know a hell of a lot more about this stuff than you and me combined.

Being a DRP shop is not impressive at all. It just means you are bowing to their cut rate costs and procedures. We are not a DRP shop and never will be because the cost cutting measures of the insurance companies infringe too far into the integrity of the repairs. and yes we are plenty busy.

You ask me "why not clip" I explained why. So let me ask you. Why not perform correct and accurate repairs according to the manufacturer's specifications ? Why not ?

Okay calling you an embarassment was off base and harsh and I apologize for that. The fact of the matter is, you don't know what you don't know. Everyone had to learn at some point in time. Maybe your employer doesn't know these things either.
The fact of the matter is the collision repair industry is changing very very fast and is it worlds different now than it was ten years ago. Vastly different. It is difficult to keep up.

I don't know if you are aware or not but the president has been well established, that the technician holds all liability and responsibility for the integrity and safety of a repair. Not the shop. Not the boss or the management. Not the insurance company. The TECHNICIAN holds sole and exclusive liability and responsibility for the repair.
If that doesn't scare the **** out of you it should.
Just to make sure we are on the same page. If you repair a car and someone gets hurt in a subsequent collision and the injury or death is found to be as a result of a repair you performed that does not meet the factory repair specifications you CAN be held legally responsible.

It is vitally important that you know HOW these cars are supposed to be repair and why.
Get a alldata subscription. 95% of what you need to know is in there. If you can verify it through alldata to the insurance company they are obligated to pay for the procedures.
To put it another way, you can get paid MORE to do it right. You can get paid for every step you can document !!!!

So again I ask you.....
Why not do it right ?

 

[MONMIX]

The air bags never deployed. Plus the insurance never looked at the car. So the title is still clean. Yeah it will show that it was in an accident, but that only counts if I sell it. As for cutting and splicing, I'm only removing the roof braces and pushing/pulling the front door posts out less than an inch. The second post by the pop out windows maybe just over and inch. The rear posts are no more. I won't even try them. Ordering and welding new roof braces will keep it straight. i figured adding a roll bar from the rear up would add to is as well. We'll see how it goes. I would hate to scrap or sell for parts as I've kept up with maintenance. Still runs clean and smooth.

I should note this happened while only traveling 35mph before it slide, tipped, hit and bounce back. I figured it was below 20 when it tipped. The left side has minor dents but no scratches. So it wasn't on its side for very long.

If you are determined to fix it..... I would not recommend it. Goes with out saying that thing will total. No insurance company on earth would pay to fix that.

Adding a rollbar is a consideration but as I said the bodies on these things are designed to act as an assembly. To direct the energy in a collision around the passenger compartment. Removing structural pieces will change that collision energy management.

The only way I personally would recommend hanging onto this truck is if you were making it into a trail rig.

 

[skoville]

This is tongue in check so don't jump on me.
If it not safe on the road, I don't want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere stuck for 4 days walking home . luckily I was picked. You can always weld 10 pipes (for legs) on it and make a spider sculpture. MONMIX may just be trying to save you life (or his). You can certainly have a certificate inspection and deem it safe and road ready. Didn't get much help here, but let us know what's what's /with picks, please. Above all. have fun, and take opinions with a grain of salt.

 

[96firephoenix]

My recommendation is to parrot what others have said: find one with a bum engine and a good body, then swap them from the frame up. trade over any body-specific features you can't live without, like if one has fog lamps and the other doesn't.

Keep in mind if you do that, you'll get the VIN of the clean-bodied one, and your busted up blue one will be scrapped, so your insurance and title will need to get corrected.

There is not a manufacture on planet earth that recommends sectioning or clipping two cars together. It is completely and totally unsafe and incorrect. Do not do this.

The factory service manual for my 1996 firebird had procedures for basically this. They had very specific cut lines, instruction on drilling tack welds, and showed where to stitch weld, where to tack weld, and where to use body caulk.

It's a perfectly acceptable way to repair a car as long as it is done correctly. I can't emphasize that enough. Trouble is almost no-one does it correctly, as it is often more cost-effective to scrap and replace the whole car.