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316,000 mi on my orig fuel pump...time to change...

Discussion in 'Stock 1995 - 2001 Explorers' started by alvawayne, January 12, 2018.

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    1. alvawayne

      alvawayne New Member

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      Hi everyone;

      Long story a little less long...

      My fuel pump gave up the ghost a few days ago. It wouldn't prime in cold weather (30 degrees), but would in warmer weather (high 30's). Been happening two years now. A few days ago it died completely. My bad.

      I have no garage where I live. Had to have it towed. Now, when I owned a home with a garage I did most of my own work. This is a job I'd have tackled then. But this is now.

      The shop has good voltage at top of the fuel tank. The found a Ford sticker on the fuel pump/sending unit flange at tank top. It was dated 2000. It's either the original FP assy or a NOS replacement somewhere in the last 316,000 miles. I bought it with 225,000 on the clock and never touched the FP.

      (Told the shop save the sticker and the pump/assy. I want 'em both.)

      The shop suggested a Carter assembly, P7489S. They quoted me $229. Ouch! Rock Auto has the same PN for $110. Grrrr....! Nothing I can do about the 100% markup. That's one reason I hate having a shop do my work.

      I've spent the last 4 hours here on the site doing various searches for fuel pumps and Carter in particular. Most posts on Carter were positive but there weren't any long term reports (100,000 miles or more). And the newest Carter post I found was around 2014. So I'm wondering...

      .....does anyone have more recent experience with a Carter pump/sending unit during the last, say, 2 years (2016, 2017)?

      .....are they made in America? I called Carter to confirm PN P74879S was correct for 2000 Monty with prod date of 2/2000, but I didn't ask if they were made in America.

      .....are they quiet or LOUD? Sheesh, I HATE noises in the cabin.

      I also searched Motorcraft and Delphi on the forum. This gentleman (3xowner) with a 2000 EB Explorer installed a Motorcraft FP (pump/sender assy) in May 2017 (post #31):
      acts like the fuel pump, must be the fuel pump, right?

      He paid $295 for it at Rock Auto. He wrote:

      "....the assembly appears to have been made in Mexico and stamps show sub components being stamped during december 2016 and looks like final stamp was in January 2017."

      That got my attention. Mexico?

      So I'm wondering.....

      .....why buy Motorcraft?

      .....what pump does that Motorcraft use, Bosch, Carter, something else?

      .....why spend $300 for a Motorcraft pump made (okay, assembled) in Mexico, is it that much better than the $230 Carter?

      .....Rock Auto has both Motorcraft and Delphi pump/assy's in stock. About $300 each. What am I getting with them that I'm not getting with the Carter?

      ----------------------------------------

      Sorry for the rambling.

      All responses are appreciated.

      Thank you.

      You guys rock!
       
      Last edited: January 12, 2018
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    3. Mbrooks420

      Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer

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      There are quality parts made in Mexico, China, Hong Kong, Thailand, and just about every country that has manufacturing.

      Very unlikely you will find a US made fuel pump.
       
    4. Dave98XLT

      Dave98XLT Active Member

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      I just had my mechanic replace mine (original 230k miles 98 SOHC), he used a carquest packaged pump. I didn't notice the manufacturer. He did the job in about 3.5 hours, I wonder what book rate is? I need to pay him today. I can't imagine how difficult it would have been doing it on jackstands.

      I have always used Exxon fuel in the vehicle, and the tank was as clean as a whistle. He was amazed at how clean the tank was.

      He had a lot of trouble separating and reconnecting the quicklock connections from the lines to the pump, and to the filter, due to corrosion, but was able to make it work. Special tool is needed to separate the clamps. Be careful not to damage the rubber part of the fuel lines or you will be in deep dodo. Recommend getting 4 new clamps used on the fuel filter (two are used on the pump, two on the filter) and also new rubber lines and hose clamps for the filler/air lines as they were corroded/shot.
       
    5. SWIGIN

      SWIGIN Active Member

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      You guys are funny, if you didn't own it from new you have no idea if a part is factory or not. It doesn't matter if it had 15 pumps in it till that one went. It doesn't change the story one bit.

      And for the '' I can't imagine how difficult it would have been doing it on jackstands.''

      You do realize that most home replaced pumps are done on jacks and stands right? That's the only way I have ever done them and it is simple to do. Just because you cant or don't feel like doing a certain repair don't make it sound so awful, like that's the reason you didn't do it.

      Rant off
       
    6. XLTrunner

      XLTrunner Active Member

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    7. lobo411

      lobo411 Active Member

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      When mine went at 170k, I used the cheapest pump I could get that didn't have a bad rep. I went with a Spectra pump assembly that I bought for $80 at Pep Boys. Almost a year on the pump now and no problems at all.

      I prefer to install the highest quality parts I can afford, and I could have afforded the Motorcraft assembly that Rockauto had for $200. I figured...my Explorer has a clean body and it runs well, but it's always on the verge of failing smog in some shape or form. Why throw good money into a tired, 20 year old vehicle that is at the end of its life?

      OPs is even more tired...316k mi is well past the normal end of life for any vehicle. Especially a vehicle that has to be repaired at shop rates. So to the OP: Get the cheapest pump you can get that doesn't have a bad rep.
       
    8. alvawayne

      alvawayne New Member

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      Well, it's done.


      THE GOOD
      ----------------
      $535.51 total:

      $229.77..............Carter P74879S FP/sender assy
      $180.00..............Labor, 2 hrs @ 90/hr
      $90.00................Flat bed tow (less than 1/2 mile!)
      $31.74................Tax

      If not for the tow it'd be a real decent price. Be even better if not for the $100 tacked onto the FP.

      It starts faster than before, by about 1 second or a few less revolutions than it took to fire with the old FP. The quicker starting is enough to be noticeable. Can't notice any increase in pep, though. In fact I think it might not run as peppy as before. That may be my imagination due to "THE BAD" below.

      I need to test the fuel pressure, now, to be sure.


      THE CARTER
      -------------------
      Sticker on box top proclaims "Made in China". The Carter website proclaims their FP's "Made in America in a TS(something or other ) certified facility". Website doesn't China made pumps at all.

      This 2015 article notes Federal Mogul sold their company to Crowne Group, who'd be making "older model" fuel pumps "overseas". No definition provided of "older model".
      UPDATED: Carter Fuel to lay off more than 100 workers

      I don't hear any new or different noises with this Carter. Was concerned I'd hear a whine like knobby tires on a highway. I hear nuzzing! Old fogey's will remember the TV sergeant who said that.

      The in dash fuel gauge read real close if not exactly what it read before the job (about half tank). I'll have to fill it up to see if the in dash gauge reads "FULL" and if the fancy little computer on the console says "FUEL TANK FULL".

      Before the Carter, the in dash gauge and little computer on the console sometimes disagreed with each other. The computer said I had more than the in dash gauge said. And vice versa.

      Anyone comment on that?


      THE ORIG FUEL PUMP
      ------------------------------
      WOW! In great physical shape. Top cover not rusted at all. Some grunge at the edges but middle shiny. Elec conns in good shape. Even the few wires entering/exiting the top in good shape. Probably could've got away with a Bosch 66085 pump, $112 at Rock Auto.

      The factory bar code sticker on top of the orig FP reads:

      XE2UAE
      9R307..........01-31-00..........3
      BASE.............DATE..........SHIFT

      I'm keeping the OEM pump for a spare, and the sticker for my amusement. That pump lasted 17 years, 11 months, 4 days.


      THE BAD
      ------------
      About 1/2 mile into a test ride after I paid the bill, I got a death wobble in the whole vehicle so bad it almost tossed me into a ditch. Speed was steady 65 mph when it hit. Turned around, headed back, got another wobble, around 55 mph. Seat of my pants, steering wheel, pedals, everything shook like mad.

      Turned out to be air in the power steering system. Shop owner said air got into system when being winched onto the flatbed. Parking was real tight and I had to help the tow operator by turning the steering wheel left and right, while the operator jockeyed the winch forward/reverse to kinda '3 point turn' my vehicle. The vehicle wouldn't start so the PS pump wasn't working.

      Shop should've been on top of the steering situation before they let the car go to me. They knew it had been steered left/right a lot to get it onto the flatbed. The claimed they test drove the car after installation, but admitted (under questioning) it was only "up the street and back".

      That's no "test ride" AFAIC. 3-5 miles would've been better. Up a steep hill (there's one right up the road) would've been good, also.

      Shop owner took the car for a 20 minute ride. Came back, said it was indeed air in the PS system. He'd driven around some windy back roads and said there may be some air still in there. Okay. I can handle that. Few blocks from the shop I felt a tiny tremor in the steering wheel. Pulled into a parking lot by the lake, did 20, slow, lock-to-lock turns. Drove to highway taking lot of right/left turns. 9 miles at up to 75 mph. No wobble. Done.


      THE "IT COULD'VE GOT REAL UGLY" BAD
      ----------------------------------------------------------
      While waiting for the owner to return, the tow driver got real huffy with me. "All we did was change the fuel pump....we didn't even take the tires off....we can't find anything wrong....it must've been that way before...."

      I almost flew into a rage. Instead, I took a very deep breath, turned around and walked about 5 steps away. Turned back around and said, "Yeah. I had that before. And I waited until my fuel pump died so I could pay you $90 to tow it four-tenths of a mile, and then pay you for the fuel pump job, just so I could try to blame you for that (-------) wobble. See how (-------) stupid that sounds? That's how you sound. Maybe YOU )------) it up taking it off the flatbed. How's that sound? You like being accused? I know I don't."

      Thankfully.....just then the owner drove in from his 20 min test ride. Tow operator and I took the opportunity to de-escalate. Trouble averted.


      SHOP PERSONNEL
      ---------------------------
      Head mechanic? He charged me fair and good at two hours labor. Even drained 1/2 tank (10 gals) and put it back nicely. A bit rough around the edges. Presents like a biker bar kinda guy but he came through from start to finish, from good price on the job to tackling the wobble. He's in the plus column.

      "Administrative" guy? Slick Willy in a ball cap and jeans.

      Tow operator? Hot head big guy. Unstable, uncool in crisis. Jumps to conclusions. Nervous. Should never deal with customers except to tow their vehicles.

      Maybe I'll go back next week to ask for his apology. Heh-heh.


      LOBO: Your advice was spot on. In the 10 ring. Glad I went for the less expensive pump. Enough things are wrong at 317,000 that I guess I'm on borrowed time. Some can be done in the driveway in warmer weather.

      Rear leafs almost flat
      Rr Fr lower ball joint a bit weak
      Rr Fr inner tie rod a bit loose
      End link bushings worn, fr and rr
      Rr sway bar bushings worn
      Rr calipers 30% lighter due to material loss through scale rust (need replacing)
      Fr Lft caliper intermittently fails to brake, causing slight pull right when braking
      Shocks all around
      Etc, etc

      Trans is good. Upshifts/downshifts well, not hard, not slipping. Motor pulls strong, quiet except for intermittent, what I think is valve lash adjuster noise. Idles pretty well for 317,000 (it has 317,000, not 316,000). Steady at 600 RMP with a tiny, intermittent 'surging' that doesn't change RPM's, just changes audible harmonics in the cabin. Replaced the notorious bad timing chain cassette at 225,000 miles. Every once in a great while now, I'll hear it for a half second when starting. I should pull the oil pan, look for particles, and clean pump screen if it's accessible.

      Cooling system good with new radiator this summer. Another shop job. Replaced stuck open thermostat week before that using Motorcraft part. Not much heat last winter. Good heat this winter.


      DAVE98XLT: If I still owned a home with garage I'd have done the job myself, starting on a Sat morn. I hate taking my car to anyone I don't know.


      SWIGIN: Step away from the Patron.
       
      Last edited: January 13, 2018
    9. SWIGIN

      SWIGIN Active Member

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      Wow that's a lot of drama. That's why I do mine in my garage on jack stands in like an hour and I know it's done right.
       
    10. Dave98XLT

      Dave98XLT Active Member

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      one reason I was happy to have a shop do the job is one time I was doing some fuel system repairs on another car and due to one little stupid mistake of mine, I started an engine fire. Luckily it was outside in the driveway and no damage to the house or me was done. If it would have been in a closed garage, no telling how bad things would have been...

      Be safe, guys!
       

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