5R55E Transmission Problems

[4pointslow]

Symtom Chart

The symptom chart doesn't have the exact symptom I am looking for. I guess the symptom is the lock up torque converter is slipping. I am going off the recording that showed 100-200 rpm's difference(slip) with 95% duty cycle for the Torque converter. In the back of my mind I am thinking is it really the torque converter or could it be the O/D band slipping only in 5th (it is used for second gear also but no problem there).

The symptom chart only lists "Does not apply/Always applied" which are not my problems. They also list Cycling/Shudder/Chatter for torque converter problems. They send you to "242 Electrical and 342 Hydraulic/Mechanical" testing.

 

[4pointslow]

242 and 342

242 and 342 "routines" are below my rants. Not very helpful at this time.
Rants
Electrical says to carry out TCC tests. Where are they? Then run on board diagnostics with a scan tool, I already did that and got P0741. lol
Hydraulic talks about fluid, valve body bolts, gaskets, and separator plates.
All which are new, and torqued properly. lol.
Then they go into checks on things inside etc.
End rants.

242 — ELECTRICAL ROUTINE
Powertrain Control System
Electrical inputs/outputs, vehicle wiring harnesses, internal transmission wiring harnesses, PCM, TCC, BBP, TP, RPM, TSS, OSS
Carry out TCC tests. Run on-board diagnostics. Refer to the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual. Use scan tool to carry out Pinpoint Test. Repair as required. Clear codes, road test and rerun on-board diagnostics.

Speed control equipped vehicles
Evaluate with speed control off.

342 — HYDRAULIC/MECHANICAL ROUTINE
Fluid
Fluid contaminated
Inspect fluid for contamination. If contaminated, locate source of contamination. If burnt, inspect mechanical band, clutches. Repair as required.

Main Control Assembly
Screw out of torque specification
Tighten to specification.

Gasket damaged, off location
Inspect and install a new gasket.

Separator plate damaged
Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

TCC, solenoid stuck, damaged, O-ring damaged or out of bore
Inspect for damage. Carry out solenoid function test as listed in electrical routine. Repair as required.

TCC solenoid and valve (200), converter clutch control valve (201), thermostat bypass valve/cooler limit valve (216), spring, damaged, missing, misassembled, stuck, bore damaged
Inspect for damage. If damaged, install a new main control. If parts are missing, install new parts or main control. If misassembled, reassemble correctly. Do not stone, file or sand valves. This will remove the anodized finish and may result in further main control or transmission damage.

Pump Assembly
Screws out of torque specification
Tighten screws to specification.

Cross leaks
Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

Front pump seal damage
Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

Seal on inner pump gear damaged
Inspect for damage. Repair as required.

Torque Converter Clutch Assembly
End clearance (excessive), internal leakage, clutch material damage
Carry out end play check. Inspect and repair as required.

 

[4pointslow]

New direction

So there are some other tests listed under Preliminary Inspection in the workshop manual. One is called Torque converter diagnosis. I laughed when it started out with Run on board diagnostic tests and ended with symptom charts.

Right in the middle it has Line pressure test and Stall Speed test. That's what I plan to be doing next, have to wait for gauges to show up now for the line pressure test.
Here is the torque converter diagnosis.

Run on-board diagnostics; refer to On-Board Diagnostics With NGS in this section.
Repair all non-transmission related DTCs first.
Repair all transmission DTCs.
Rerun on-board diagnostic to verify repair.
Perform Line Pressure Test; refer to Line Pressure Test in this section.
Perform Stall Speed Test; refer to Stall Speed Test in this section.
Perform Diagnosis by Symptom Index; refer to Diagnosis by Symptom in this section.
Use the index to locate the appropriate routine that best describes the symptom(s). The routine will list all possible components that may cause or contribute to the symptom. Check each component listed; diagnose and service as required before servicing the torque converter.

 

[Demo1986]

This is a good thread to keep on my subscribed folder

 

[4pointslow]

X3 Datalogs

So I decided to datalog my 4 door explorer and my Ranger with the SCT X3 for a little comparison.
After finding which pids I wanted I programmed them into the X3 and went driving. The Ranger datalog shows a good torque converter lock up with no slip.
The Explorer datalog shows 118 rpm slippage.
RPM is engine rpm
TURBIN S is the input shaft of the transmission
They should be very close to the same like in the Ranger recording.
TC ACT S is Torque Converter Actual Slip
We definitely have torque converter slip, just have to find out why now.

 

[transman304]

I have this info and will look for other and post when found.

4R44/55E, 5R44/55E
TCC Slip Codes
Always verify you have the correct EPC and TCC solenoid. The conception that the
updated solenoid will work for all years is wrong. Only use the correct solenoid for
the correct year, refer to the list below.

TCC Solenoids
1995-1996 Explorer, Ranger, Aerostar
F5TZ-7F037-AA

1997-Only Aerostar
1997-2001 4DR Explorer
1997-2003 Explorer Sport
1997-2005 Explorer Sport Trac, Ranger
XL2Z-7G136-AA

EPC Solenoids
1995-1996 Explorer, Ranger, Aerostar
F5TZ-7H144-A

1997-Only Aerostar
1997-2001 4DR Explorer
1997-2003 Explorer Sport
1997-2005 Explorer Sport Trac, Ranger
XL2Z-7G383-AA

 

[4pointslow]

Epc

Thanks Transman304,
Now that you mention it I remember reading a thread in here that talked about red and EPC solenoids and something about only the red one being right(maybe for my application). These part numbers will come in handy.
I also found one TSB about the TCC solenoid having bad Crimps. Since this is a remanufactured valve body who knows what is in it. It did work for a couple of months though(1-2). I do still have the OEM ford valve body with 100,000 miles plus on it that I could pull the solenoids out of. I will post the TCC solenoid info in a bit so I can access it easier if needs be.

I put all new clutches and seals in when the reverse band broke, I did not replace the servos though since they were replaced around 1000,000 ago and are accessible from the outside, plus they looked good at the time. This truck spends most of it's time on the highway in O/D too, I have a 40 mile drive to work and half is minor highway(which I am about 6 blocks away from) and the rest is turnpike. Still waiting for trans pressure gauges to show up, supposed to be here the 26th but I am not holding my breath.

 

[4pointslow]

TCC solenoid

Some vehicles may exhibit an O/D light flashing with DTC P0741 and/or P1740.

Perform normal diagnostics.
If the O/D light is flashing and DTC P0741 and/or P1740 is present, remove and inspect the TCC solenoid.
Inspect the following areas (refer to Figure 1 ):
Crimping points broken.
TCC solenoid bracket broken.
Lot numbers 769 or 771 present.
Pintle may be moved in and out.
If any of the above concern areas are present, replace the TCC solenoid.
Erase the DTCs and verify the repair.

 

[transman304]

I use the Sonnax Zip-Kit on transmissions that give me fits on returning codes. It doesn't require any reamers or machine work. Just have to drop VB. I have had great success with these kits. I think they run like $125.00 but worth every penny when that problematic trans is not back in the shop for good.

http://www.sonnax.com/parts/2172

 

[4pointslow]

Zip Kit

Thanks a lot transman304, I may get one of those kits and rebuild the Ford Valve body that I just pulled out with about 100,000 miles on it. If I do I will replace all the solenoids too. it would still turn out cheaper than buying another one from Ford at $1,000.00.

 

[4pointslow]

Gauges

Yesterday to my surprise the new transmission pressure gauges showed up. It was raining so I did not want to pull my supercharged explorer out of the garage so I just worked on that one instead.
Now that the rain has stopped I will get to it.

 

[4pointslow]

Line Pressure Test

So, I did the line pressure test and here are the results.

Idle
R 190
N 100
D 116
2 110
1 120

Stall
R 310
N NA
D 225
2 225
1 225

 

[4pointslow]

Specs

If the specs are right, Drive and Manual 1 pressures are too high during the line pressure test. They should be Max of 110 and I have 116 and 120.

Drive, 1, and 2 are too low during the stall test. Minimum should be 228 and they are all 225.

Now this is if the specs are right and if the new Matco Gauges are accurate.

 

[4pointslow]

Diag

The only diagnosis for high pressures is all ranges high, no help there.
For low in all three forward positions the possibilities are
Forward Clutch
Main Control
Front Servo

spec is 228 and I have 225. Is that really a problem?
This is where experience would come in handy and I did not do transmission diag the 16+ year I worked in the field, I did gasoline driveability mostly. We had a trans shop that did all our trans work for us. I was spoiled.
I could hook the hose up to my 2 door and see what that one is doing but it has custom tuning to the transmission tables, I raised some of the pressures based off a value file in SCT's Advantage3 software and then adjusted it to my needs.

Would it be of any value to drive the vehicle in 5th under TCC lock up when the problem exists while I still have the gauge hooked up?

Also the workshop manual says.... If line pressure is not within specifications, check EPC pressure. So I guess I should check that next.

 

[4pointslow]

TCC slippage

So thinking ahead I am figuring a possible TCC solenoid(like the TSB), the bracket could be broken that holds it in. Blown Valve body Gasket. Bad Torque converter or the seal on the pump for the torque converter(I did replace that too).
I am sure there are other possibilities.

I did just replace the valve body, pump and torque converter. The valve body was a reman with upgrades, I used the Rotunda/Ford alignment pins to install the valve body and torqued it to spec. The bracket was never changed by me.
It will be interesting to find out what it is this time.

 

[4pointslow]

TCC slipage

Finally getting around to posting the NGS recording that alluded me to the TCC slip.

Look at RPM and TSS and you will see the slippage of the lock up torque converter. RPM is the crankshaft speed and TSS is Turbine shaft speed or Transmission input shaft speed. They should very close to the same when the TCC is locked.

You may have to watch it on youtube(click youtube on bottom right) to see the numbers on the screen.

 

[4pointslow]

Stall Test

I did the stall test today. Here are the RPM readings.
R = 2699
D = 2850
2 = 2650
1 = 2850

I used an NGS for the RPM readings. (the second time).
I tried using my Fluke meter but it was saying 4,000, made me think th etrans was really messed up until I realized it was giving me false RPM readings. lol.

Spec is supposed to be 2405 to 2800 RPM according to the Ford Workshop manual. This is an aftermarket Torque converter too.

 

[4pointslow]

Tcc

I changed the TCC solenoid tonight.
I pulled the pan down and looked at the metal bracket, the edges of the valve body gasket, and the TCC solenoid etc.
The fluid was pretty in pink, no metal, and no clutch material. That made me feel better.
The TCC solenoid felt loose, not the metal housing to valve body, but the plastic on the back side where the electrical connector goes. I compared it to the one off my old OEM ford valve body that had 100,000 miles on it which seemed tight so I installed it. Everything is back together but I have not road tested it. It's too late to be moving vehicles around and a friend just dropped off a 2001 Explorer Sport for me to work on.
I am waiting for a load of laundry to finish so I can go to bed. I will probably sleep till noon. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Tomorrow if it doesn't work correctly I will assume it is the converter and will have to pull the transmission to swap that. Hope not.

 

[4pointslow]

Stall and line pressure Test

RPM reading on Fluke meter was incorrect.
If you click youtube at bottom of window to "watch it on youtube" and then click settings and 1080p it is much clearer.

 

[4pointslow]

Still there

Well, the TCC swap had no effect, guess I am pulling the trans out again.