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98 5.0 AWD Auto to 5spd M5R2 and 4406 M

Discussion in 'Modified 1995-2001 Explorers' started by Nick26, June 30, 2009.

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    1. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Hey Guys,
      I'm planning on pulling the 4R70W and the 4404 AWD case in my 98 and replacing them with an M5R2 (from a 97 or newer F-150) and a 4406 manual shift. I've been collecting info and measurements about the M5R2 and I know this is uncharted territory for an explorer but I'm pretty sure I will be able to get it to work from everything I've read about it. I also have the convenience of having a friend with an 03 F-150 with a 5 speed (M5R2) and a 4406 M so I have been taking a bunch of pictures and getting measurements off his truck.

      For those of you that have done the 4406 conversion I just want to verify, it seems like if you have a 98 or older explorer then you will need a 4406 M from a 98 F-150 for the speedo to work(without going through all the trouble Jamie (410fortune) went through and switching tail shafts and speedo gears)?

      However I thought for trucks 98 and newer the VSS was the RABS sensor, or is this only on the 4.0 trucks?

      Something else I'm thinking is I do have 33's on the truck so if I go the gear VSS route(not saying I have the option yet, just hypothetical) then it would be a lot easier to adjust the speedo as opposed to getting tunes to do it.

      Does anyone know anything about the 2003 4406 and if that might work? The reason I ask is I found one with only 32K and for only $150 which is coming off the same truck I am getting the M5R2 for only $450. Where as the same yard has a 98 F-150 manual shift t-case with 119K on it and for $300 so obviously I'd like the newer, lower mileage, cheaper case if possible.

      I plan on doing a little test and unplugging the sensor on my current 4404 and seeing if the speedo still works, and if not then I'll pull the sensor out to see if it is gear driven or one of the doppler kind like the RABS, and if it is then I'll just check and see if the 03 case has the same kind of sensor.

      Also it seems both the front and rear drive shafts from a 2000-ish Expedition will bolt right in with the addition of the hybrid 1330 1310 u-joint on the front, correct?

      I plan on going to the yard this Friday since I have it off for the holiday to collect as much as I can...
      primary list: tranny, tcase(either 03 or 98), F/R driveshafts
      secondary list: 302 flywheel for a 5speed, clutch pedal, master cylinder, and reservoir from either a ranger or explorer(unlikely)

      So if anyone can confirm any of my questions that'd be great. Thanks!
       
      Last edited: July 3, 2009
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    3. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      haha, i guess my first post was too long to get anyone interested...

      Anyway I have some good news, I crawled under my truck and realized that my 4404 doesn't have any electronics what so ever. The spot near the output shaft where it looks like the sensor would go is sealed up so then I guess that means I can get away with the 03 t-case after all and don't have to worry about the speed sensor at all. In addition to that I measured the cross member mount on my friends F-150 and it is 25 inches from the front of the transmission and on my truck it's like 24.5", also both transmissions measured 28" in length, so lengthwise it looks like the M5R2 will line up pretty well. Also I'm happy to report that I measured 16.5" to the center of the shifter on my friends truck and when I measured that on mine it falls dead center of the tranny access hole in the floor board.

      Finally some bonus info...
      - The 4406 roughly measured 19.5" wide where as the 4404 measures like 17" wide, but we already know that fits anyway because a bunch of people have done that swap.
      - The width between the cross member bolts on the F-150 was 2.5" where as on the explorer it's 3".
      - The starter is on the passenger side for both trannys
      - The slave cylinder hydraulic line is on the driver side just like the M5R1 and looks like the same size/connector
      - For what it's worth this is what I read on the tag of my friends 4406: A093 1 4406-21 393419 XL34 AC
      - And the sticker on the M5R2 says: XL34 ZD E125410
       

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    4. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      some more images for the heck of it...
       

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    5. IAmTodd

      IAmTodd 4x Explorer Veteran

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      Subscribing! :thumbsup:
       
    6. rwenzing

      rwenzing Active Member

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      You are in luck. 98~2001 4-door Explorer 4.0 or 5.0 takes the raw VSS from the rear axle ABS sensor. The 95~97 Ex's are the ones that use the gear driven signal generator on the trans or transfer case.



      You cannot correct the speedometer in your truck by using an aftermarket flash tuner. That's because the PCM is not involved in the correction.

      A Ford dealer can adjust for the 33's by resetting the tire "revs/mile" variable in the 4WABS Module - that's where the conversion is done on a 98~2001 4-door Ex.
       
    7. HahnsB2

      HahnsB2 Active Member

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      Good luck with this! 5 Speed V8s are fun :D
       
    8. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Oh yeah I was a afraid of that, I had the same problem in my 99. I bought an SCT XCalibrator 2 but i discovered it couldn't do it, even the Tuner was surprised.

      Yeah I think they wanted a couple hundred bucks to do it though, for that kind of money I might as well get a truspeed. Well it's better to have a speedo off by 10% then no speedo at all at least.
       
    9. rwenzing

      rwenzing Active Member

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      Part of the high price reflects the high cost of the special tool required for the job. Even so, you should be able to find a dealer or independent shop willing to do it for well under $100. I reset the revs/mile for my 31's in 5 minutes using a borrowed dealer tool.

      Just be sure to look up the revs/mile spec in advance at the tire manufacturer's site. The dealer will not find the value in the shop manual for a 33" tire.
       
    10. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Do you remember the official name of the tool so I can ask around shops if they have one?
       
    11. rwenzing

      rwenzing Active Member

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      The one I used was a handheld NGS+. It has been superceded by a newer tool called WDS, IIRC. Those are both Ford dealer tools. There may also be aftermarket tools but I'm not sure if they can change the values in the Ford 4WABS Module.
       
    12. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Maybe someone here can help me with this, I'm trying to figure out what flyhweel I will need, assuming I will need a different one? Searching summitracing they don't seem to even differentiate whether the flywheels for the 302 are for an auto or manual, unless I'm missing something: http://summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6375-B302/

      If I did have to get a different one I'm thinking I should go for a 95ish F-150 with a 302 and 5speed since I believe those trucks had an M5R2 as well. I just hope they didn't change anything other then the shifter location on the newer M5R2's vs the ones in those trucks.

      Does anyone know if the 4.6 uses the same flywheel as the 302? I notice they sell mustang flywheels that span 94-98 which contains both engines.
       
    13. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      I think that your choice of an F150 flywheel is right, the 4.6's are different. The flywheel needs to be for a Ford small block with 50oz balance, for that trans and starter. If you can confirm that the number of teeth for that trans is the same 164 as the 4R70W, then you may be able to use the Explorer starter.
       
    14. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Yeah doing a little reading today I found out the input shaft on 96 and newer M5R2 is 11 3/8" and only 11" on previous years. So since the 96 F150 came with a 302 and the 11 3/8" input shaft then I am thinking I want a flywheel and clutch for a 96 F150 with the 302. It's possible the extra 3/8" is actually on the internal end of the input shaft and externally its the same but I want to try and get it as close as possible. Now if I search Summit for a flywheel for my 98 Explorer and for a 96 F150 then it comes up with the exact same part numbers (M-6375-B302 - 157 tooth). Although as you said the one for the 4R70W is 164 teeth and autozone confirmed that too so I don't know why summit suggests that one. Below is a picture of an automatic flywheel for a 98 explorer and 2 pictures of manual flywheels for a 96 F150. Both are 164 teeth but the mating surface looks totally different. So I will probalby have to buy a new flywheel but can reuse my starter.
       

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    15. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Well I went and got an M5R2, 4406M, and 2 drive shafts this morning... Although I think i might have goofed and got the wrong rear drive shaft because I forgot whether it was the 4.6 or 5.4 one i wanted and got one supposedly for a 4.6. It measure 49" from tip to flange but with my SOA I might actually be able to use a couple more inches, so I'll find out when I get to that point whether or not it'll work. By the way the expedition front shaft I got measured 36 1/4" from flange surface to flange surface.

      still need:
      - a 96 F150 302 manual flywheel
      - clutch kit for a 96 F150 (pressure plate, disc, throwout bearing, pilot bearing, alignment tool)
      - clutch pedal assembly, reservoir, and hydraulic line.
      - tune to clear tranny stuff from computer.
       

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    16. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      So I just ordered a few more things. I was going to pick this stuff from a junkyard but looking at what the junkyards want for them(and proximity) and how much they cost new it wasn't worth it. I got 2 clutch master cylinders because I am not sure which one I will need yet. It'd be nice if the Explorer one worked with the F150 line but just in case I got both and will just return whichever one is extra.

      Would anyone know if the stroke on a clutch master cylinder has to match that of the slave cylinder? I'm wondering if the explorer one is too small to move the F150 slave all the way in and out... I guess I'll find out when I get them.

      So now I just need a shifter stick, tcase shift linkage, and the pedals.

      For your 1996 Ford Truck F150 1/2 ton P/U 4WD 5.0L EFI 8cyl
      Dorman/Clutch Hydraulic Line Part Number: 628-201 Availability: Ships within 2 business days. $47.99
      Luk/Flywheel - Manual Transmission Part Number: LFW161 Availability: Ships within 2 business days. Warranty: 1 YR $74.99
      Mr. Gasket/Flywheel BoltPart Number: 912 Availability: Ships within 3-5 business days. Notes: Black $14.99
      Brakeware/Clutch Master Cylinder Part Numberm:10334 Availability: Ships within 2 business days. Warranty: LLT $46.99
      Luk/Clutch Set-Matched Part Number: 07-909 Availability: Ships within 3-5 business days. Notes: Performance Warranty: LLT $229.99

      For your 1999 Ford Truck Explorer 4WD 4.0L EFI OHV 6cyl
      Brakeware/Clutch Master Cylinder Part Number: 10574 Availability: Ships within 2 business days. Warranty: LLT $73.99

      SUBTOTAL:
      $488.94
      SHIPPING:
      $0.00
      TAXES:
      $34.23
      TOTAL:
      $523.17
       
    17. EMG7895

      EMG7895 Well-Known Member

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      Very interested, have you seen any other 4406 manual cases around, Im semi local and casually looking for a good one.
       
    18. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      just search car-part.com. I got one with only 32K miles for $150.
       
    19. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      The drive shafts need to be the shortest versions from the bigger Expedition/Navigator/F150 trucks.

      The front shaft needs to come from a 4R70W truck, with the 4.6 engine.
      The rear shaft needs to come from a non 4R70W truck, with the 5.4 engine. The bigger engine gets a bigger rear end, thus a shorter rear shaft.
       
    20. downhillpat

      downhillpat New Member

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      I certainly hope that you didn't take that M5R2 out of a 4.6 or 5.4 truck... It MUST be from a 5.0 or a 4.9 I6 truck, as the bellhousing bolt patterns are different. I believe that the 5.8 only came with the ZF-S542 and ZF-S547 5 speeds, which if you had a BL and some custom fab you could make it work.

      Don't worry about the slaves and masters matching, ford I am 95 percent sure uses the same slaves on both the M5R1 and M5R2, and possibly the ZF in my 94 F250 (at least the 351 does, the 460 and diesels have external slaves as well as the 5.4 version.).

      I could get your speedo to read right I think, I just have to look on monday and see if the WDS can program for 33's.
       
    21. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      aww crap... I thought I read somewhere they were compatible but now that I look into it more I guess not. Oh well I think I can return the tranny, I only bought it a couple days ago. It's a shame because it was a good deal and low miles(which is why i guess I got over anxious and jumped on it). Do you know if the transfer case bolt pattern changed? Can I still use the 4406 with the older M5R2? (According to car-part.com they had a 4406 manual in 96).

      Great thanks, I'll probably hit you up for that(if you can do it) when I get it all running.
       
    22. rwenzing

      rwenzing Active Member

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      The 4.2L V6 has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as a 5.0L. Also, compared to the M5R2 from 4.9/5.0, the M5R2 from the 97~2003 4.2L F150 application has a better shifter location for a Gen 2 Explorer.
       
    23. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Yeah I realized that's what I mixed up now... the 4.2 is compatible with the 5.0 not the 4.6. I tracked down a couple different ones near me, a 99' with 50K listed for $500 and a 03' with only 3K listed for $700. I'm off on Tuesday I'll probably get it then and return my other one, along with the wrong rear drive shaft.
       
    24. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      The rear shaft you will need is likely going to be different with a manual. Compare the lengths of the stock 4R70W to that manual, the difference will give you a number to work with.
       
    25. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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    26. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Very good, that's what I was hinting towards. The shaft length of a slip yoke will work for a short range of needs. So you may not need a different shaft than the one others used with the BW406.
       

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