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98 5.0 AWD Auto to 5spd M5R2 and 4406 M

Discussion in 'Modified 1995-2001 Explorers' started by Nick26, June 30, 2009.

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    1. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Here's a question I hope some one on here can answer... I was just reading about clutch installs and I saw some people say you need to use the 3 flywheel pins when bolting on the pressure plate because it will make sure the pressure plate is centered and it will keep the clutch from chattering. Does anyone have any experience with this? My flywheel (made by Luk) didn't have peg holes where they need to be for this pressure plate but both of them are made by Luk and both of them are for a 96 F150. So I'm wondering if this is true for all cases? I am wondering if I should pull the pressure plate off and make sure I don't need to rotate it 60 degreees to see the holes? I did see other holes on the flywheel, but I don't remember any of them lining up with the holes on the pressure plate aside from the bolt holes that I'm using now. So far I'm not finding any flywheel pins for a 96 F150 from any parts websites either...
       
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    3. 99SportX

      99SportX Elite Explorer

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      Awesome job so far man! I cant wait to see how this turns out!
       
    4. downhillpat

      downhillpat New Member

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      I just posted a link to this on FTE as I am pretty sure some of the guys over there would watch this intently....I could see this turning into a good write-up.

      Now all I need is a ZF in my mounty....heh heh heh....mmm...creeeeeper gear....
      Even though that tranny is too big...ok I am done now.

      For shifter ideas try mating a NP435 or T18 stick to the M5 lower half...might work, just cut it down a little bit.
       
    5. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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    6. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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    7. rriddle1982

      rriddle1982 New Member

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      I did this on a two wheel drive ranger a few years ago with a late model 302 and an m5 trans out of a 98 f150 with a 4.2. I don't know if you've noticed but you may have to remove the alignment dowel pins in the trans. Both my block and trans had them in the same location. The slave cylinder for a ranger and the master for an f150 great together, just make sure you replace the slave if the trans has been setting any length of time. Both the ranger and f150 take the same slave cylinder, also the same as the explorer sport. The clutch you chose will work perfect too. You may also have to change the starter and the block plate to one out of a 96 f150. I also changed the shifter and ball out out for one out of a ranger. the f150 one was way too long. Of coarse if you like that kinda thing its ok. lol Might be cool with one of those red flashing eye skull shifter knobs looking out the windshield at innocent bystanders..It just bolted in. hope this helps.
       
    8. damarble

      damarble Active Member

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      Kudos for doing what Ford should have! The 302/M5 combo was great in my old F150, I'd love it in an Explorer. I hope the newer ones don't shift so much like an old truck though, I'm guessing it should be like my X, somewhere in between the truck and car feel.
       
    9. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      awesome, thanks for chiming in... Did you truck start out as a stick? What did you do for ECM? Did you have to do anything special to get your reverse lights working?

      You're right I have the dowel pins on both of mine too. Good thing you gave me a heads up, I probably would have missed that and been like wtf why won't this thing go on, haha. Does that just tap out of the tranny?

      Yeah I realized that too, the part numbers are the same for M5R1 and M5R2 slave cylinders. I got a brand new slave too. The one on there looked like it was in decent shape but for $50 it's worth it for the peace of mind.

      I hope not. The block plate from my explorer lined up perfect with the M5R2 and the flywheel and flex were the exact same diameter and teeth so I think my starter should work.

      I'm going to weld up my own shift rod out of a 92 F150 shifter stub and some threaded rod once I know how long it needs to be and what angle. A regular ranger stick worked on your M5R2 and was facing the right way?
       
    10. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Exactly... I envision doing this again in the future... some day I would like an 04+ F150 crew cab with the 5.4 and stick.
       
    11. rriddle1982

      rriddle1982 New Member

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      Yes my truck was a stick(m5r1) to begin with and it was a 2.0 carb engine. So I stuck with a carb for now. Its an 88 model. On yours you will probably have to get a wiring pigtail to plug into the red switch on the shifter plate for the reverse lights. It will have to be wired into your original harness. I dont think the revese lights go though the GEM module but I may be wrong. Someone else may be able to help you more with the wiring. Mine just plugged in
      The dowel pins do just knock out with a punch pretty easy. I took mine out on my tranny with a little pb blaster and a small punch.
      I got that backwards on the slave cylinder thing. I have a ranger master and an f150 slave. I used and original master for my truck and a 98 style slave cylinder and line. My slave looked great too and I made the mistake of not replacing it like an idiot. It caused me to delay driving my truck for a while. lol
      Ill check on the starter when I get to work for ya. I work in parts. The block plate looked like it wold work on mine till i tightened it up. Mine was a mustang plate and the automatic one had an extra lip. It made this horrible grinding noise on the flywheel when I first started it. That was one of those things that remedied itself over time.lol I wasnt about to pull that thing back apart. Its possible that mine could have gotten bent a little.
      The shifter pivot ball assembly out of a ranger and an f150 are different in that the pinch bolt that holds them on are on different sides. That ball will come directly out of the tranny. Just put it in neutral and take out the 3 t30 screws in the base of the shifter and it all lifts right out. I use a 98 ranger(m5r1) shifter, ball, and even cup holder.
      This is a great setup in my truck. Its a late model mustang 302 with a 600cfm holley and a few go fast tricks. With the m5r2 tranny out of a 98 f150 and a 3.08 geared 8.8 out of a 94 ranger. It has great all around driveability and will straight up haul butt on top end. My shifter even comes through the factory hole in the floorboard perfectly.
      Good luck. If you have anymore questions Ill be glad to assist!
       
    12. damarble

      damarble Active Member

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      I'll raise you one. Wait til the F150 diesel is out and put a stick in it! It will have to be a ZF though.
       
    13. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      haha good call... yeah i would probably want to put the ZF behind the 5.4 too... the main reason I picked the M5 for this is size.
       
    14. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      So I got the transmission bolted up now. This one is a little heavier then the M5R1 for sure so it took a while to line it up with jacks and straps where as the M5R1 I could just bench and stab. I took the extra dowel pin from the trans and put it in the other side since there was no dowel there to hold the block plate up while I tried to line up the tranny. After a while of trying to get it straight I got some 6" bolts of the same thread 7/16"-14 and got one in each side. Then I used some 3" bolts since the bellhousing bolts couldn't reach yet and cranked those as far as I could to pull the trans closer to the engine. Then eventually took out the 6"ers and replaced them with the bellhousing bolts and then did the same with the 3"ers. It was a process and it definitely helped having my half a body lift on there.

      I don't think I could ask for any more perfect shifter placement...

      And here's a pic of how I mounted the master cylinder. The aftermarket autozone one sticks out a little further then the factory one so i couldn't fit it next to the electrical box so I had to move that plug over a little and put it there.
       

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    15. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      also it was a tight fit trying to get the tranny up with the shift linkage on it...

      I started off hammering the floor board with a sledge but that wasn't enough so I just cut those brackets off the exhaust. There are a ton on there anyway, I don't think these ones were needed, and it gave me more clearance for the reverse bump in the tranny.
       

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    16. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      So i hit my first non-straight forward thing... the distance from the center of the output shaft to the cross member mounting surface on the 4R70W is about 2 inches shorter then it is on the M5R2. Therefore I needed to take about 2 inches off the cross member. So I took the factory one, cut the top off then cut the top piece out and flattened it. Then just welded it right to the bottom piece. It lined up pretty well, I just had to do a little filler weld in one spot.
       

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    17. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      So now I have the cross member fully installed and the trans technically fully installed. I hooked up all the hydraulics and filled it with fluid. Unfortunately though it looks like it's going to be a PITA to bleed. I tried doing the bench bleeding before I installed it but apparently it didn't work.
       

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    18. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      also worked on my shifter some too.. I took the 92 F-150 shifter and cut it right above the wedge joint then angled the rod how I wanted it and flux welded the sucker on there. On top of this I plan to weld about another 4" of the threaded end of a 1/2" bolt with the correct threads for the billet mustang shift knob I picked up.
       

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    19. Cobraguy

      Cobraguy Well-Known Member

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      Mad skills!

      By the way Nick, you are dead on track with your pressure plate bolts. You MUST use a shouldered bolt if you don't have locating pins. These not only properly keep the plate centered (and thus balanced) on the flywheel, but they give a hardened wear surface. ARP or Mr Gasket should have what you need.

      Failure to use a hardened shoulder bolt in this application will allow the plate to 'walk' on the flywheel and eventually lead to really ugly things...
       
      Last edited: August 7, 2009
    20. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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    21. damarble

      damarble Active Member

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      I did the exact same thing to my crossmember to lower my transfer case, except I went 1". I was trying to get rid of vibes.

      Can I suggest some reinforcing though? It looks really flimsy now. I added some angle iron under the hump to stiffen it up, I can post a pic if you like.
       
    22. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Sure... I'd like to see that, thanks.

      It looks a little thin in one of the pictures but it is not really flat, there is still a little lip and a buckle before it gets to the mounting surface, kind of like a dimple. I stood on and it seemed pretty strong, not to mention how tightly it's bolted into the frame I wouldn't expect it to wrap or anything. If I run into problems it's easy enough to pull it out and make a new one or re-enforce this one.
       
    23. damarble

      damarble Active Member

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      Not the best pic but you get the idea. It may never fail the way you have it but I figured I would at least put back as much vertical material as I had removed.

      [​IMG]
       
    24. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      I guess this is where the fun starts...
      So the tranny is in and filled up, starter is on, I uploaded the tune file from Bama Chips and I tried to start it but all I get is a click. I tried another battery that I know is good and same thing. I tapped on the starter, same thing. I'm wondering if the starter may have gone bad, even though the battery was disconnected the whole time, so i doubt that. I am kind of annoyed with this Matt guy at Bama Chips... when I was emailing him about what I wanted they usually got back to me within a day or 2, which is slow but acceptable. But now that I actually paid them and bought a tune, I emailed him a week and a half ago to confirm this tune removed the auto tranny stuff so I could get it to run and he still hasn't replied.

      So I could start by taking off the starter and taking it to autozone to see if it's still good..

      Otherwise does anybody know what might be preventing the computer from letting it start? The column shifter was left in the park position in case that matters.
       
    25. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      According to my haynes manual there was only a neutral safety switch on the 94 and older models. Anybody know how the 95+ trucks know if it's in neutral or not?
       
    26. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Ok so I'm continuing to read... it looks like there is a transmission range sensor and it says the sensor the following...

      so I suppose I'll try shorting pins 1 and 4 and seeing if that helps.
       

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