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98 5.0 AWD Auto to 5spd M5R2 and 4406 M

Discussion in 'Modified 1995-2001 Explorers' started by Nick26, June 30, 2009.

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    1. downhillpat

      downhillpat New Member

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      We need a video when you get a chance, that we can all drool over it...
       
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    3. Sbyrne97

      Sbyrne97 Active Member

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      your sir are a pioneer to all V8 owners on the site....congratulations on the swap man....i nominate for a sticky
       
    4. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      thanks, yeah it's going to be fun driving this thing. I won't be able to get a video tonight but probably tomorrow. If anybody is ever in the area and wants to test drive it just let me know.

      downhillpat, did you ever find out if the WDS can adjust the ABS module for 33's?
       
    5. downhillpat

      downhillpat New Member

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      Not yet, If I get a chance I'll try it on mine tomorrow.
       
    6. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Now I am down to the 8 transmission only codes... I am going to call Bama chips today.

      Also here's some notes I'll post all in one place for anyone else who might consider doing this. I'll add more to this as I think of more, let me know if anyone has any good questions I can answer here:

      • Don't waste your time trying to bleed the master cylinder while it's installed in the vehicle. it's impossible to get the air out in that position, you have to take it out to bleed it. Wait and make that the last thing you hook up, and do it up side down from inside the drivers fender well(remove the plastic).

      • You'll need a 13mm u-joint socket to get to the top bolts of the pedal assembly.

      • You will want to totally unbolt the brake master cylinder and pull it into the engine bay as far as possbile when installing the pedal assembly.

      • Get a block plate for a manual 96 F150 with 302, 164 tooth flywheel and a 2 bolt starter. The trans does not have a threaded hole for the bottom of the AOD style block plate and the access panel is only held on with 2 bolts at the bottom so the AOD plate is kind of weird. Also the starter hole is not the same shape and there will be a big gap next to it. You could try a block plate for a Boss 302 but the starter hole might not be exactly the same size. I have one on the way to my house, I'll check it when I get it.

      • If you didn't want to buy the $100 hydraulic cable that goes from the master to the slave from the dealer, Autozone sells a hydraulic cable for a 96 F150 that's like $48. It's slightly longer and routed slightly differently but it has the same connectors so you could probably make it work.

      • To reuse the bellhousing bolts from AOD i had to predrill the bellhousing holes on the M5R2 to 7/16" from 27/64".

      • Check the dowels on the tranny you get with the peg on the back of the engine to make sure they aren't on the same side. They were for both on the passenger side for me, so I had to tap the one out of the tranny and put it in the drivers side of the engine.

      • If you get the same flywheel and clutch set I did then you need a pressure plate 6 bolt set that's 3/8-16 thread, about an inch long and have a ~1/4" shoulder (a.k.a. neck) on them. The ARP 130-2201 for chevy's will probably work. I got mine from a bin at some some speed shop by me. You do not want the Mr. Gasket 911 set even though they say they are for small block fords they are actually 5/16 thread and not right for that flywheel.

      • The shifter on the older M5R2's(92) and the M5R1 that was in my 99 explorer are not oriented in the same way. The slot for the peg and the wedge bolt are rotated 90 degrees counter clockwise so the shifter which is supposed to be angled back is actually angled to the passenger's side. I tried switching the whole top pieces(under the 3 torx bolts) but the shifter stub on the later M5R2s has a longer piece that reaches down to the shift forks so they are not compatible. I ended up cutting, at the ankle, and welding the 92 F150 shifter I picked up and used that.

      • There is about an inch and half difference between the center line of the output shaft and the mounting surface of the cross member between the M5R2 and the 4R70W (4wd tail housing), so the cross member needs to be shortened some. I vaguely remember the measurements being the M5R2 like ~5" and the 4R70W like ~3.5".

      • The M5R2 and the 4R70W are virtually the same length at ~28" and have the cross member mount in virtually the same place.

      • The shifter location of the later 4.2 M5R2s is perfectly place in the middle of the cubby area of the full center consoles.

      • I just left the holes from the trans cooler lines that went to the radiator vacant. I assume it couldn't hurt to have air flowing through where the hot tranny fluid used to go to cool down.

      • If you have rear air in your center console you obviously need to remove the flat tube that flows from front to back to pump air in back. I plan to rig up some kind of tube that will go to the left of the shifter so I can keep the rear air.

      • There is supposed to be an electrical connector that clips onto the push rod that goes into the master cylinder below the clutch pedal which is how the computer knows if the clutch pedal is down or now. I didn't bother with this, so now i can start it with out the clutch pedal being down, I just have to make sure it's not in gear. This makes it easy for me to install a remote start if I want too.

      • Cruise control and speedometer still work perfectly after the swap. Obviously the clutch pedal does not disable the cruise control though.

      • I only removed the shift lever and the kickdown cable to the tranny, I left all the other stuff intact on the column because I didn't want to deal with trying to remove it.

      • I have a sloped body lift installed so the height of my body lift at the firewall is ~2" this made the wedge bolt on the shifter just barely above the access panel. I did not have a problem with floor board clearance anywhere.



      List of the actual parts I used:
      • M5R2 from a 03 F150 w/ 4wd and a 4.2 V6 w/ ~60K miles - $350
      • Transfer case shift linkage included with transmission
      • 4406M from an 03 F150 w/ 4.6 V8 and 32K miles - $150
      • Rear Driveshaft from a 2000 expedition with the 5.4 - $75
      • Front Driveshaft from a 1999 expedition with the 4.6 - $50

      For a 96 F150:
      • 164 tooth 50oz manual Luk Flywheel - Autozone $75
      • Luk ProGold Clutch Set :thumbsup: - Autozone $230 - includes pressure plate, clutch disc, alignment tool and incompatible throwout bearing.
      • Manual starter - Autozone $100
      • Mr. Gasket/Flywheel 6 Bolt set - Autozone $15
      • Pressure plate 6 bolt set 3/8-16 thread x 1" with a ~1/4 shoulder.

      For a 99 explorer:
      • Clutch pedal assembly - dealer $83
      • Hydraulic Clutch line - dealer $104
      • Master Cylinder - Autozone $74
      • Slave Cylinder - Autozone $48 - this is the same part number for an 03 F150 with the 4.2 V6

      Total: $1354 - it's worth it though :D
       
      Last edited: August 18, 2009
    7. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Also if anyone needs to see a link to high res versions of these pics and more let me know. I don't want to publish it here because it hammers my server when everyone goes at once.
       
    8. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      You would have the pedal and hydraulics all set since you already have a 5 speed which is convenient, but I think I would rather have to do that then convert the wiring over from a V8. It's always easier to take electronics out of the equation then add them to it. And even if you couldn't do a full 4wd conversion at the same time I would at least get a 4wd trans and put a tcase behind it and just leave it in 2hi until you can get the front axle and all.
       
    9. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      your radiator will be fine with no ATF flowing through it, I ran a auto radiator with a 5 speed for years.

      Nice work!

      You can "bench bleed' the clutch master with it in the truck, just dont hook up the hydraulic line to the slave yet, bleed it there, then hook up to slave and continue to bleed

      Cant wait to see you get rid of those codes and get to break in that clutch!
       
    10. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      I figured so.

      That's essentially how I did it except i still kept it plugged into the slave and used the bleeder screw on the slave because it seemed safer then jamming a screwdriver in the end of the hydraulic fitting like some things I read suggest. Initially I tried bench bleeding the whole system while it was out of the vehicle but it apparently didn't work or air got back into the system when I installed it.

      Luk Pro Gold clutches don't need to be broken in.
       
    11. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Last edited: September 7, 2009
    12. Sbyrne97

      Sbyrne97 Active Member

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    13. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Oh yeah that's essentially what I planned on making out of heavy duty black vinyl i have. It might not come out as clean as those ones but I've done some upholstery before, so we'll see. If it comes out terrible I can just buy one of those, no loss.
       
    14. damarble

      damarble Active Member

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      Here's my first attempt with vinyl. I was going to make the tranny boot full length like the stock boot but my measurements were off. If I do it again I'll just make it short like the t-case. Yours should be easier you have more room to work with.

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]
       

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    15. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      a heat gun will make it so no more folding at the corners... I used to cover all sorts of stuff in carpet and vinyl... now I dont do vinyl unless I have a heat gun... I ran into 2 jet ski seats that kicked my butt.. now I have heat gun and electric staple gun = now upholstery is cheap and comes out nice!!

      those shift boots look great!!
       
      Last edited: August 19, 2009
    16. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Yeah those look pretty good, that's pretty much what I'm shooting for. A heat gun is a great tip, I'll have to try that.
       
    17. Spdrcer34

      Spdrcer34 Well-Known Member

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      For getting air to rear, through the console, I would look at the 1st Gen's rear air duct.

      It starts at the center-line of the Explorer, under the dash. It then turns and lies flat against the transmission tunnel in the passenger foot well area. Then as it gets closer to the rear air duct, it turns again. It turns back up to the center line of the vehicle, under the console.

      You can see how it starts in this pic...


      Ryan
       

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    18. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Did you keep your truck that way, or use the 95-01 console etc? I liked that air housing, but I wasn't planning to use any console or rear air outlets.
       
    19. MountaineerGreen

      MountaineerGreen Towing Moderator Moderator Emeritus

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      Nice work, Nick! I had always dreamed of this swap, if my 150k+ trans ever craps out and I have the time, I may do this. Nice finish on the wiring harness and pedals, looks like factory!
       
    20. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      thanks for the tip, as of now I have some 3" dryer tube that I am going to try and make work. If that doesn't work out I will go searching for a 1st gen tube.
       
    21. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      thanks, the wiring harness is just shink wrap and electrical tape.
       
    22. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      Just to update, I have put over 1K miles on it now with no problems.

      I got rid of all my check engine lights which is good but I kind of have an occasional misfire happening. Tell me if this sounds right to you guys... the guy at Bama chips said nothing needs to be done special for a manual vs automatic to the engine tune, the RPM curve and everything stays the same. The only thing he did special for me was delete the check engine lights that I had on. However I don't really remember this "misfire" like symptom happening before the swap so I was almost wondering if the engine was trying to compensate for shift points or something and that is what the hiccup is. I'm going to try changing the fuel filter next, the fuel pump in this truck did die once but banging on the gas tank brought it back to life so I am wondering if maybe that it's on it's way out now.

      Also I haven't got the shift boot done yet because I am going to take the shifter back off to move the knob back and up and inch in both directions so I am not reaching so much.

      Attached is a picture of the block plate I got. I am just going to hang on to it in case I ever tear it down again I will put this one in. It looks like it is the right one but I don't know for certain. Apparently I measured 10 3/4" to the center of the top starter bolt hole when i had the tranny off(http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink) and I measured 10 5/8" on the block plate I got in the mail. So I think it was just a quick fuzzy measuring job and they are actually the same. If they were different I think it would be an inch or so different (the 157 tooth flywheel starter hole is kind of more obviously different). Also for what it's worth when I ordered it i checked with the guy about my application like 3 times and he said this would work.

      Other then that I just put all new shocks, tie rod ends, and sway bar bushings on it, as we as putting the overload leaf back in my leaf springs. I took it out for flex when this axle was in my V6 truck but now that it's in this one I can feel the springs wrapping up.
       

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    23. Spdrcer34

      Spdrcer34 Well-Known Member

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      Don, I used the WHOLE `97 set-up in my Explorer. But if/when I do a Manual Swap, I will use the 1st Gen Air Duct to feed the rear.

      Ryan
       
    24. moneyguy

      moneyguy Member

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      great write up! right now i'm having problems with my AWD Tcase and looking for options. for the misfire, check your plugs. if they're white or there's white residue coming from your exhaust, its running lean. had the same problem on a '96 F150 and it had a bad fuel pump.
       
    25. derek54401

      derek54401 New Member

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      hey guys, i located a 95 m5-r2 out of a 302 f150. will this tranny work for the swap? it's a really good deal that i dont want to pass up.
       
      Last edited: October 22, 2009
    26. Nick26

      Nick26 Well-Known Member

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      technically it will bolt up but the shifter will practically be under the dashboard and I don't think you can just swap tops to the M5R2 so it pretty much won't work unless you want to fab up you own shift linkage.
       

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