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Bastard U-joints

Discussion in 'Offroad Drivelines' started by SuperEx91, April 25, 2007.

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    1. SuperEx91

      SuperEx91 Active Member

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      I have searched the site for information on this and all i have found is references but no details. i kinda caught that thay are not liked but they may be stronger than some stock apps.
      i am swapping in dana 44's and want to get a little more onformation on this subject before i setup my axle with the original yokes.
      also. instead of having to reclock the front C's for my caster correction, could i swap in a single-joint driveshaft(as opposed to the stock double cardon) so i can leave my diff flat, horizontal, whichever,(not pointing at the tcase) and maintain(or close to) the original caster angle? it will probably need to be lengthened anyway.
       
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    3. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      The problem with running a single-cardan U-joint on both ends of the driveshaft on the front is that it limits the angle significantly.

      Lets say you did run a single-cardan system, and because its a single cardan, the pinion should be about parallel with the transfer case. Well in most situations, this means the U-joints are already at maybe 6 or 8 degrees. Well lets say the limit of these U-joints are 15 degrees. This means the U-joints only have 15-8=7 degrees of driveshaft droop before they're maxed out.

      With a double cardan U-joint system (or CV), you typically clock the "C" (or inner-knucle) which means the U-joint is typically within a degree or two from zero.. which means you have at least 13 more degrees of movement before the U-joints max out.

      The rear driveshaft is pretty long so one would think that the angle wouldnt be THAT bad. But if you look at my rig, the rear driveshaft's angle doesnt look so "optimized" and I wish I had gone with a double-cardan in the rear while I was at it. And since I'm using a 14-bolt rear axle, the U-joint at the axle-end of the driveshaft is a 1350 series so it has even less movement than the 1310 series which you're using on the Dana 44.
       
      Last edited: April 25, 2007
    4. zainyD

      zainyD Active Member

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      Anybody know the part # for a 1310/1330 conversion joint. I'm gonna need one when I swap the 9" rear axle under my Ranger.
       
    5. SuperEx91

      SuperEx91 Active Member

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      I dont even know what ujoints i have. what is the stock one? i think i read 597-x or something like that. plus i have to weld the Dana44 ends on the stock drivshafts for the other axles don't i? when my friend cut them out, he left me about 6 inches of the driveshaft after the ujoint on the axles. i figured i would just have those put on when i get the dshaft lengthened. and if thats the case, what series ujoint are used with the dana 44?
       
    6. CodePoet

      CodePoet Well-Known Member

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    7. SuperEx91

      SuperEx91 Active Member

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      im using D44 out of waggy. doesnt use those.
      My axles
       
    8. CodePoet

      CodePoet Well-Known Member

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      Ah 10-4...
       
    9. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      The Dana 44 uses two U-joints in two places. The one shared with the pinion and the driveshaft is a 1310 series -- which is the same that the Explorers uses. The ones at the axle shaft is a Spicer 297-X which has larger bearing caps than the 1310 series.
       
    10. SuperEx91

      SuperEx91 Active Member

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      awesome. that helps. how hard is it to change the dshaft joints to 1310/1330? what axles use those?
       
    11. SuperEx91

      SuperEx91 Active Member

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      found this...
      U-Joint Upgrade?
      Anybody heard about these? sounds like a direct replacement and an improvement at that. no details though.
       
    12. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      You can't just swap driveshaft U-joints w/o swapping out the yokes on both the driveshaft and the axle and transfer case so its quite involved. And the U-joint is not the issue when it comes to strength because there are other things that usually give/break before hand.

      Yes that upgrade is worth it if youre going to replace the axle-shaft U-joints.
       
      Last edited: April 25, 2007
    13. SuperEx91

      SuperEx91 Active Member

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      i understand that but i figured if i am gonna have the dshafts modified anyway, y not look into a larger ujoint? but as they sit, i shouldnt have to change the axle end of the stock dshaft to bolt up to the new axle. so are all 5 of the dshaft ujoints 1310 series? all 5 of them? and the 2 in the front axle are 297-x.
       
    14. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      On a stock Explorer, yes all 5 are 1310.
       
    15. SuperEx91

      SuperEx91 Active Member

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    16. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      those are conversion joints.. allows you to run say a 1310 driveshaft to an axle that runs 1330.

      The difference between the 1330 and the 1310 is not the bearing cap diameter but rather the length/width of the U-joint itself. So that joint will be slightly taller on the 1330 side than the 1310 side.
       
    17. SuperEx91

      SuperEx91 Active Member

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      no real strength increase though?
       
    18. SuperEx91

      SuperEx91 Active Member

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      There you go ZainyD-found your joint on Ebay
      1310-1330
       
    19. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      Not really. But like I said, typically its something on the axle that breaks because the torque multiplication happens at the ring and pinion gear. So components after the ring and pinion (like the axle shafts), experience an amount of torque proportional to the gear ratio in the differential.

      So say you're running 4.56 gear ratios and theres 100 ft/lbs of torque coming down the driveshaft and therefore the same amount at the U-joint on the driveshaft. Well the U-joints on the axle shaft will experience 100x4.56 = 456 ft/lbs of torque. Of course there are two axle shafts so this torque is distributed evenly or unevenly to the two U-joints depending on whether or not you have locker and locker design. But again, this is why axle-shaft U-joints break before the driveshaft U-joint.
       
    20. SuperEx91

      SuperEx91 Active Member

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      So in your opinion, how important are aftermarket axles if i am only planning on playing in the mud and on trails? i dont have any rocks around so none of that. i cant see too many high stress issues when in the mud.
       
    21. Burns

      Burns Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Yep. I broke a axle shaft joint pulling a friend out of the mud. It happens. The ujoing in my front axle was the one i used to mock up the front suspension with. It has not had a grease fitting in it in a year. I really need to replace it. Now that i think of it.


      [​IMG]
       
      Last edited: April 26, 2007
    22. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      Actually, I broke this axle shaft when my vehicle was stuck in mud.

      [​IMG]

      In this situation, the entire wheel was submerged in a river bank and therefore pretty much half of the entire tire's surface had firm grip on the ground in front of it. The river bed was just the consistency to not allow the tires to climb up on top of the surface and the tires therefore just kept moving earth out and to the side -- the tire with the broken axle shaft was just being dragged. Eventually the vehicle just dug two trenches (one for each tire track) with 3 ft walls and a path between the tires where earth was dragged by the axle and dumped into the river.
       
    23. Burns

      Burns Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Now i break the joints and just bend the shafts. I guess im not to hard on mine.

      Is that the end of the shaft that would be on the gear end.
       
    24. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      Yeah it is, right where it narrows just a fraction of an inch and right before the splines start -- thats the weakest point as I found out.
       
    25. Burns

      Burns Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I cant get one to do that. Not that i want to but i only have had one bend the ears on the ujoint side after a ujoint busted.
       
    26. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      I had that happen on the other end of the axle shaft pictured above. Here's the elongated holes caused by the busted U-joint:

      [​IMG]

      The picture was taken a few weeks after the U-joint broke, hence the rust. But thats one end of the U-joint and its accompanying bearing cap still inside that one hole.
       

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