Brake shoe and diff fluids.....

[Itchybruno47]

Hey all. Just wondering if anyone has come across an issue such as this. I just re did all my brakes. Front and rear. New everything. All was going well until I smelled the tell tale stank of hot metal. Its my rear right (pass side) drum. Overheating. Other side is fine. When I pulled to inspect I found cracked shoes both primary and secondary (less than A month old) and an axle seal leak. Brake is NOT out of adjustment and the star adjuster is back all the way to full slack. I don't get any rolling reaostamve when I block the truck and let the wheels go. My question is this;
Has anyone heard of diff fluid causing brake shoes to swell? I cannot for any issues at all that would cause the overheating.
Thanks in advance yet again gang!
Daz...aka Itchybruno47
Cheers

Please relocate if there is a more appropriate section.

 

[BKennedy]

Is there any play in the axle? You might have a bad axle bearing, which caused the seal to leak.

 

[Itchybruno47]

Thanks. I'm not interested in the cause of the leak though. I know it's leaking diff fluid. I have new seals and repair bearings ready to go. I am converting a dent puller tip to a bearing puller attachment tomorrow.
I am trying to solve the brake drum overheating issue. Specifically interested in hearing anyone else's opinions or experiences with diff fluid / axle fluid contamination on brake shoes / drums...
Like I said. I cannot figure out what else could be causing it. Its not check valve action with a collapsed interior brake line as the rears are solid lines. I don't see how contaminants in a solid line would allow fluid one way and not the other. I might be wrong but I'm not leaning towards bad brake lines at this point....

 

[Itchybruno47]

Your profile pic is mean btw. I dig it.

 

[Centaurious]

Yes fluids can cause brake and clutch material to expand.

 

[Itchybruno47]

Yes fluids can cause brake and clutch material to expand.

Thanks for replying. From experience or Google?
Cheers

 

[gmbroy]

the diff. fluid caused your brake shoes to expand & crack . once the fluid got on to the shoes & the shoes got hot the pores on the pads sucked up the oil into them then on the next heat cycle heated the oil & shoe causing it to expand , then draw in more oil ..... & so on You will have to replace the shoes when you do you rear seals . make sure you polish the axles good when you install the repair bearings & pre lube them . good luck on the job . This info is from my experience .

 

[Itchybruno47]

the diff. fluid caused your brake shoes to expand & crack . once the fluid got on to the shoes & the shoes got hot the pores on the pads sucked up the oil into them then on the next heat cycle heated the oil & shoe causing it to expand , then draw in more oil ..... & so on You will have to replace the shoes when you do you rear seals . make sure you polish the axles good when you install the repair bearings & pre lube them . good luck on the job . This info is from my experience .

I have the new shoes as well. Appreciate the reply. This is what I figured was the case but never experienced it. Wanted to hear confirmation from someone on here who's dealt with it before inpulled and replaced everything. Much appreciated.
Anyone have any yay for nays for going to the repair bearings? I figured its like putting a new axle and bearings in since it will now ride on a fresh axle spot. The only down side I see is that since repair bearings and seal are one unit I'll have to replace both of the seal goes again. Imo if the seal goes and I've got the diff cover and axle out anyways I'd be putting new bearings in too.
Thsnks again.
IB47

 

[CDW6212R]

Don't use the "repair" bearings unless you have to, or cannot get axles. I'd pull the axles first and try to install normal axle bearings. The wear can be the bearings without too much axle damage.

Also, the wheel cylinders might be sticking, or leaking. How do those look, it's not a bad idea to replace those also, if the brake lines can be removed readily. Bleed new brake fluid through it when you do the brakes again, fresh fluid protects it from the inside and works better. Regards,

 

[Itchybruno47]

Don't use the "repair" bearings unless you have to, or cannot get axles. I'd pull the axles first and try to install normal axle bearings. The wear can be the bearings without too much axle damage.

Also, the wheel cylinders might be sticking, or leaking. How do those look, it's not a bad idea to replace those also, if the brake lines can be removed readily. Bleed new brake fluid through it when you do the brakes again, fresh fluid protects it from the inside and works better. Regards,

As per my original post. All brake parts are new. Including cylinders. Why not use repair bearings? I'm not getting new axles. This thing has 400000 kms on it. I don't see a reason to not use repair bearings as they were cheaper than buyng seals and bearings separately. On top of that the repair bearings will be the same as putting in a new (pick a part) axle as they will ride on a new spot on the axle. So again....why is there any reason to not use the repair bearings?
Thanks ahead.
IB47.

 

[CDW6212R]

The bearings will ride at a point inboard on the axle, as you noted. That's the down side, the pressure is placed inboard a hair, which nothing for easy driving. Hard driving or cornering is more stress on the axles, you decide that. I don't baby my cars, so I avoid going backwards on reliability items.

With new wheel cylinders, then the grease on the pads must have caused the overheating and cracking. I've seen cracked pads once when wet, but it was ages or years after the previous brake job. So I hadn't concluded the grease did it, but maybe that's common. My sister has a leaking axle seal on her Jeep, and the last pads were wet but not cracked. I think she needs to get the seal/bearing/axle fixed soon, and stop worrying me about it(she doesn't say anything, I just worry about it).

 

[Itchybruno47]

Appreciate the reply. Pretty much same conclusion as I came to. I have no play in the axle So I'm leaning now towards just doing the seals since the weather is shiz here. (fraser valley bc)
Onti another (stupid) question now. Where they'll is my diff fill plug. Wtf am I missing? The cover itself has nothing on it...

 

[CDW6212R]

The 8.8 fill plug is up on the front left side of it, right above the side horizontal ridge. It takes a 3/8" extension/ratchet to remove it. Fill until it runs out, done.

You should be able to rent/borrow the bearing puller tool from most part stores. I finally bought a set for about $45 last year, I've used them many times. I used to make something up, and that took a long while sometimes. The right tool works fast with a slide hammer.

I once had a new bearing that didn't want to go in straight, and I put the old one back in. I think that was a deformed new bearing/case. It kept ****ing in the housing, and I didn't feel like fighting it any longer, the old one felt fine. It's not always a simple easy task. Stay warm up there, I hear Winter has come early up north.

 

[Itchybruno47]

The 8.8 fill plug is up on the front left side of it, right above the side horizontal ridge. It takes a 3/8" extension/ratchet to remove it. Fill until it runs out, done.

You should be able to rent/borrow the bearing puller tool from most part stores. I finally bought a set for about $45 last year, I've used them many times. I used to make something up, and that took a long while sometimes. The right tool works fast with a slide hammer.

I once had a new bearing that didn't want to go in straight, and I put the old one back in. I think that was a deformed new bearing/case. It kept ****ing in the housing, and I didn't feel like fighting it any longer, the old one felt fine. It's not always a simple easy task. Stay warm up there, I hear Winter has come early up north.

Thanks again for yappin back again. I'm tarped, blocked and diff cover off. Got it n the spot I see all the vids do to pull the center pin. What's up with this spring clip. Compress it and remove it before pulling center pin or after? Sorry. First time in a diff.... I have heard horror stories of having diffs go to hell on people after f***ing up while in there. C clips are behind that spring clip....advice appreciated.
Cheers.

 

[CDW6212R]

First remove the center pin, which has a fragile 8mm head bolt locking it in. Rotate the diff, so that 8mm bolt is accessible. Be easy loosening that bolt, the worst part is to have that bolt break off, which they do sometimes. So go slow and keep the socket straight on the 8mm bolt. Once it is loose, it easily comes out, and you will rotate the diff, enough to aim it out, tapping it through.

Go slow when rotating the diff, with the center pin out, then the side gears can rotate out. Just go slow and watch them, move them back in as needed.

Second, tap the axles in and remove the C-clips, push them out with a screw driver.


That big spring is the LS preload spring. It's relatively easy to remove if you have to. Get a strong Visegrips onto it, and pull it out. Putting it in can be a PITA, basically you get it line up, and hit it with a decent hammer, baby sledge if you have it. It takes a strong whack to get it started, go slow and concentrate on keeping it lined up with where it has to go back in. Once it starts to go in, it's not hard, but don't hit it as hard as you can. It can go too far in, the centered position is where it's supposed to go, so recall that now, the picture will help.

 

[Itchybruno47]

First remove the center pin, which has a fragile 8mm head bolt locking it in. Rotate the diff, so that 8mm bolt is accessible. Be easy loosening that bolt, the worst part is to have that bolt break off, which they do sometimes. So go slow and keep the socket straight on the 8mm bolt. Once it is loose, it easily comes out, and you will rotate the diff, enough to aim it out, tapping it through.

Go slow when rotating the diff, with the center pin out, then the side gears can rotate out. Just go slow and watch them, move them back in as needed.

Second, tap the axles in and remove the C-clips, push them out with a screw driver.


That big spring is the LS preload spring. It's relatively easy to remove. Get a strong Visegrips onto it, and pull it out. Putting it in can be a PITA, basically you get it line up, and hit it with a decent hammer, baby sledge if you have it. It takes a strong whack to get it started, go slow and concentrate on keeping it lined up with where it has to go back in. Once it starts to go in, it's not hard, but don't hit it as hard as you can. It can go too far in, the centered position is where it's supposed to go, so recall that now, the picture will help.

So the pre load spring DOES have to be removed to pull the axle? Your reply has the c clips come off first which is what I understand held the axle in.....

 

[CDW6212R]

I mixed up my post then, and edited it. It's been a while since I did mine last. The center pin keeps the axles from moving inboard, which they must to remove the c-clips on the end of those. The spring is straddling it all, and pushes hard outward on the side gears. That is making the clutches hold stronger, so a weak spring is a bad thing. The trucks have a stronger spring than the light duty cars, I forget what applications had which, you read of it occasionally.

 

[CDW6212R]

The axles will go in farther once the center pin is removed.

 

[shucker1]

LS Rear end.

If your that far in there it may not be a bad idea to replace the clutch packs since you have it that far down.

Side gears come out after the axle shafts and they are right there.

Don't forget the friction modifier when putting new fluid back in.

 

[Itchybruno47]

Ok. So. Preload springs did not have to come out to pull axles. I have the axles out and the center pin and retainer bolt back in place for now.
Opinions on getting a wrecker set of axles or using these still..see pics. I can hit pick a part and pull as many axles as I want until I find one with happy wear. Mine look ugly to me but I've only ever pulled in another set of axles and that was on a 77 Gmc one ton. Dodnt have to open the diff for that one. They didn't look as pitted as these though and they were 1977. Mine are 1993. No idea if the 77s had been replaced before though. It was a low mile Mohome though so I suspect not. I have no loose axle play with these suggesting they are got to use still and bearings are still alright. But they look Crap. What's anyone else think?
Thanks again
IB47