Dismiss Notice



Register Today It's free! This box will disappear once registered!

Creative ignition system

Discussion in 'Under the Hood' started by custexplorer, July 20, 2009.

  • Searches ExplorerForum.com
    1. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

      Joined:
      March 23, 2009
      Messages:
      170
      Likes Received:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      0
      City, State:
      Allen, Texas
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '05
      inh, thanks for your help, and someone else helped me last night and we got an entire wiring diagram worked out for a kill switch (or multiple) and then all the other switches.
       
    2. Support EF

      Join the Elite Explorers for $20

      Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose fix problems yourself, and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members see practically no ads, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments in all forums, and Media Gallery, create more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.


      to hide adverts.
    3. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

      Joined:
      June 30, 2005
      Messages:
      1,312
      Likes Received:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      Springfield(ish), MO
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '00 XLS
      Got bored at work, feeling nice, here's a diagram that SHOULD be for your 05 explorer =]

      Edit: just saw your reply. Here's my take on it anyways =p

      [​IMG]
       
    4. custexplorer

      custexplorer Active Member

      Joined:
      March 23, 2009
      Messages:
      170
      Likes Received:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      0
      City, State:
      Allen, Texas
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '05
      our design is different as the switches go between each relay, and we have 3 relays, the 2nd one is ignition and accessory, and the 3rd is to the starter with a button between them.
       
    5. BrianDye

      BrianDye I'll have another...

      Joined:
      March 1, 2009
      Messages:
      6,224
      Likes Received:
      8
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      Monroe, MI
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      2006 XLT
      Ill stick with my hidden key mounted in the center console lol, not like its just laying there, where you can connect the wires from the bottom of it, if anything, add more "dummy" wires that go no where...
       
    6. jad2411

      jad2411 Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      October 29, 2006
      Messages:
      2,139
      Likes Received:
      2
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      El Paso, TX
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      2007 Brown eb
      If you want a hidden key, make it a hidden in plain sight one, get a keyed glove box lid (my gf's 95 had one) and use that
       
    7. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

      Joined:
      June 30, 2005
      Messages:
      1,312
      Likes Received:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      Springfield(ish), MO
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '00 XLS
      I would do sperate ignition and accessory, that way youc an listen to your stereo or soemthing without powering the igntion line, and therfor your entire engine..
       
    8. Mbrooks420

      Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 2, 2002
      Messages:
      6,413
      Media:
      3
      Albums:
      1
      Likes Received:
      242
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Erie, Pennsylvania
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      1998 Mountaineer AWD
      Couldn't you just simulate the turning of the key with a set of switches, and simply power all the factory stuff the way it was intended?
       
    9. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

      Joined:
      June 30, 2005
      Messages:
      1,312
      Likes Received:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      Springfield(ish), MO
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '00 XLS
      That's exactly what my diagram does, though it has extra switches on the power to the engine, to add a bit of anti-theftness.
       
    10. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 9, 1999
      Messages:
      12,089
      Media:
      1
      Likes Received:
      51
      Trophy Points:
      68
      City, State:
      Vail, Arizona
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      1992 XLT 4x4
      The way i designed it for him, you flip a combo of 2 switches and you get accessory.. you flip 4 and you have ignition.. the 5th start the struck (momentary switch)...

      If you don't get the right 2 set, no accessory.. if any of the swithces aren't right you don't get starter and each relay help power the next relay.. and you can't get accessory and ignition at the same time (figured that might be bad)

      ~Mark
       
    11. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

      Joined:
      June 30, 2005
      Messages:
      1,312
      Likes Received:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      Springfield(ish), MO
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '00 XLS
      I'm pretty sure you have to power the accessory line or no power will go to the radio, climate control, etc.
       
    12. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 9, 1999
      Messages:
      12,089
      Media:
      1
      Likes Received:
      51
      Trophy Points:
      68
      City, State:
      Vail, Arizona
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      1992 XLT 4x4
      Hrm.. its possible.. I don't have diagram showing which connections are connected when the key is turned to accessory, ignition and start.. At least for that new of an X.

      I was going by the assumption that the accessory wire was independent of the ignition wire.. (it was late when I was helping too).

      If indeed the accessory connection is closed when they key is in the "run" position then I'll have to change the diagram a little..

      Of course, what I explained (he drew it.. I was just using a post it note) is by no means the only way to do it..

      I'd much rather use security keypad, maybe even with with RFID for the ignition and a single switch for accessory and a button for start...

      ~Mark
       
    13. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

      Joined:
      June 30, 2005
      Messages:
      1,312
      Likes Received:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      Springfield(ish), MO
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '00 XLS
      Yea, I like that idea too (RFID) even though RFID is easily defeated.

      Pretty sure the accessory has to be on, every car I've installed a remote start in was like that.
       
    14. BrianDye

      BrianDye I'll have another...

      Joined:
      March 1, 2009
      Messages:
      6,224
      Likes Received:
      8
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      Monroe, MI
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      2006 XLT

      Yea, but then anyone can get in/bust in and start it and take off, were trying to help figure out some hidden switches, or a hidden key to mount so he flips the switch and starts it.



      I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING...
      Will it allow you to put the truck in gear with just the switch and button setup? I thought you had to have the key turned....
       
    15. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 9, 1999
      Messages:
      12,089
      Media:
      1
      Likes Received:
      51
      Trophy Points:
      68
      City, State:
      Vail, Arizona
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      1992 XLT 4x4
      Thats just a steering wheel lock.. Its not hard to remove.. normally.. but I don't know about his newer X

      Our honda no longer has it... and it doesn't hurt anything.

      ~Mark
       
    16. Mbrooks420

      Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 2, 2002
      Messages:
      6,413
      Media:
      3
      Albums:
      1
      Likes Received:
      242
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Erie, Pennsylvania
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      1998 Mountaineer AWD
      I was under the assumption that there was going to be relays and such added to the truck. If anti theft is what you want, a PATS key is your best bet. You can use all the factory stuff and still hide a switch. Best way I can see to do this is with a hidden kill switch, and a hidden key switch.
       
    17. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 9, 1999
      Messages:
      12,089
      Media:
      1
      Likes Received:
      51
      Trophy Points:
      68
      City, State:
      Vail, Arizona
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      1992 XLT 4x4
      You have the right assumption.. at least to what he was talking to me about.

      Use multiple switches with relays to bypass the ignition switch (replace is probably a better word)...

      But, Instead of having multiple switches, I like a keypad idea.. great cool factor and thousands of combinataion for valid codes.. and some have RFID things too so you can run RFID only, Keypad only, and Keypad and RFID.

      ~Mark
       
    18. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

      Joined:
      June 30, 2005
      Messages:
      1,312
      Likes Received:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      Springfield(ish), MO
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '00 XLS
      RFID is cool but it really is too easy to defeat, there are plenty of guides and examples of how to do it on the internet =/

      The keypad is a good idea, but my dad ran in to an issue with that last week when his jeep was at the trans shop.. He disabled teh keypad for them, but when they disconnected the battery it reset, and they couldnt start it. So they had to call my dad and he told them to look in the doorjamb where he engraved the code, because he forgets it.. More of a story than a point I guess, but if you take your truck to a shop you'll have to tell them your code, and unless its easily changeable...
       
    19. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 9, 1999
      Messages:
      12,089
      Media:
      1
      Likes Received:
      51
      Trophy Points:
      68
      City, State:
      Vail, Arizona
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      1992 XLT 4x4
      The keypad I was looking at was easy to change the code.. and usessome type of nvram (not sure if its nvram or something else) so it keeps the codes, even if the power is removed..

      Sort of like those keypad deadbolts for your house.. Change the code when you have a house sitter, and change it back when your back in town..

      ~Mark
       
    20. albi1cnobi1

      albi1cnobi1 Elite Mountaineer Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      December 21, 2007
      Messages:
      1,812
      Likes Received:
      4
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      South Jersey
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      99 Mountaineer V6 4x4
      creative ignition

      Hey everyone. just thought I would throw this in, there are several remote start companies that sell T-Harnesses that you can plug into your steering column harness and you don't have to cut any wiring. If I can find the link I'll post it here. They are made for remote starts but they would be perfect for this. I'm going to pick one up and try it myself.
      I also have the wiring diagrams for the explorers as well.
       
      Last edited: July 23, 2009
    21. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

      Joined:
      March 27, 2006
      Messages:
      318
      Likes Received:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      0
      City, State:
      Royersford, PA
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '04 XLT
      Anybody have any links to the keypads they're talking about? Since I got some sleep at work last night, in a little bit I'm planning on going to the local hardware store and getting them to copy my key, and then play around with different distances with the OEM key to see how close it has to be. Wish me luck. ;):D
       
    22. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 9, 1999
      Messages:
      12,089
      Media:
      1
      Likes Received:
      51
      Trophy Points:
      68
      City, State:
      Vail, Arizona
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      1992 XLT 4x4
    23. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

      Joined:
      March 27, 2006
      Messages:
      318
      Likes Received:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      0
      City, State:
      Royersford, PA
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '04 XLT
      Well, no dice. Went to the local hardware store, got a key cut (the guy was actually a fellow Ford owner, and told me the key wouldn't work in my ignition, until I explained to him what I was doing, lol). Checked the key at the shop, it worked in my door, so we were good. Got home, first tried with the OEM key sitting on the instrument cluster lip...nothing. Rather, everything worked with the key at "RUN", but the engine wouldn't crank when I turned it to "START". I could even hear the interrupt relay clicking every time I tried. Tried holding the OEM key right next to the lock cylinder, same thing. Tried holding it on the bottom of the steering column, where the transceiver supposedly is, nothing. So, unless we can get a stronger transceiver that will read the key in our pockets, it looks like we're down to using a keypad. Rats.... :thumbdwn::thumbdwn:

      And Maniak, that keypad looks a little big to put in our cars, though I see what you're getting at with the non-volatile memory. It would be great if we could somehow get a keypad just like the door, but of course there wouldn't be a light telling you that the correct code was put in (it's easier with the door one, if the correct code is put in, the doors will unlock, lol).
       
    24. BrianDye

      BrianDye I'll have another...

      Joined:
      March 1, 2009
      Messages:
      6,224
      Likes Received:
      8
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      Monroe, MI
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      2006 XLT
      That would be awesome to somehow adapt one of those systems where you walk up with your keys in your pocket, it unlocks, and you just press the START button when you get in, as long as you got the keys with you.

      I dont get how the start button triggers the ACC's to STAY on, and then the starter when your holding the button, then it stops it all when you press it again...

      That would be one hell of a project.
       
    25. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

      Joined:
      June 30, 2005
      Messages:
      1,312
      Likes Received:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      48
      City, State:
      Springfield(ish), MO
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '00 XLS
      That is essentially what RFID would let you do. The sensor in the vehicle would read the RFID chip as you walk up and unlock doors, and enable the start button.

      I was going to do this in my old car. You would need a small microctroller to take charge of things. Press the start button, and if the engine isnt running it would engage the starter. Determining if the engine is running would be as simple tapping in to a sensor wire that would output a voltage only when the engine was on.

      It could be easier, using some relays, but I havent thought about it enough because I wont be doing this to my current vehicle.
       
    26. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

      Joined:
      March 27, 2006
      Messages:
      318
      Likes Received:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      0
      City, State:
      Royersford, PA
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '04 XLT
      Okay, so I was reading THIS article. It seems like what we would need to do is get an RFID setup to trigger a Omege IM04 Bypass Module, which would in turn bypass the PATS. Apparently that's the bypass a lot of installers use when they put remote starters in cars with PATS systems, which normally just shut the system down until the car is started, but can be adapted to keep it off as long as the signal is detected. RFID shouldn't be too hard to do, my firehouse has an RFID system to get in, the only problem is that the little fob needs to be put within an inch of the transceiver. Some other firefighters that I'm friends with, their stations' systems will pick up the fob in your pocket from a few feet away.

      Now, having experience with friends' remote starters, you still need to put the key in the ignition, or else the car will shut off once you depress the brake or try to switch gears. I'm not sure if this is a feature of the remote starter system itself, or a byproduct of the PATS system. If it's the starter, we're good.

      The trick would be to get an RFID system that is good to about 5 feet, that way someone can't steal your car if you're 20 feet away in a convenience store or something.

      The only other thing that I can think of that needs to be dealt with is the steering wheel lock, but like someone mentioned, that isn't too hard to take out.

      As far as ACCESSORY, I'm still a little confused about that. When the key is turned to RUN, it activates every electrical system in your car, ACCESSORY just turns on the radio, etc so you can listen to music or whatever without running your fuel pump and everything, right? So, as long as you wire it right, the RUN switch will still work as usual. The only problem is when all you want to do is listen to your radio. I, for one, have no problem with three switches, 2 On-Off for accessory and run, and 1 Momentary for start. That way, to start your car, you just flip the RUN switch, and then hold the START switch/button until your car turns over. It's a whole lot easier than the microcontroller that inh was referring to. However, if someone were to want just one switch to do everything (like my friend's Nissan), then you'd have to get into the more advanced stuff.

      So, if I've got this right, this is how the sequence should work (for simplicity's sake, I'm not including the automatic unlocking that some people mentioned).

      1. Get in the car and sit down on the seat.
      2. RFID system recognizes signal from key fob in pocket.
      3. RFID system activates PATS bypass.
      4. Bypass shuts down PATS system.
      5. Turn RUN switch to ON, thereby powering all of the car's electrical systems.
      6. Hold down START switch/button until engine turns over.
      7. Shift car into gear and drive off.
      8. Drive to wherever you please.
      9. Stop, put car in park (parking/emergency brake if required, obviously).
      10. Flip RUN switch to off, thereby turning off the car, just like turning the key off and taking it out.
      11. Get out of car, and once you're however far away, RFID system loses signal from key fob and turns off PATS bypass.
      12. PATS system is activated, thereby leaving your car as safe as the original system. Even if your car is broken into and the switches are played with, car won't turn over.

      How does that sound? If that works, all we really need to do is find a compatible RFID system and get the wiring all figured out.
       

    Share This Page







    We Support Our Troops!