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Creative ignition system

Discussion in 'Under the Hood' started by custexplorer, July 20, 2009.

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    1. albi1cnobi1

      albi1cnobi1 Elite Mountaineer Elite Explorer

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      the easiest way to bypass the key would be to adapt a remote start bypass module to simulate the key. i have a remote start in my 99 mounty so i already have the bypass. the way it works is when the remote start activates it sends a trigger wire to ground until the truck starts. after that it shuts down. there is a coil of wire around the key cylinder that "fools the PCM into thinking there is a key in the ignition. once the truck is running you don't need it, i did some tests and you can pull the key out after it starts. If you have any specific questions let me know.

      Sorry din't see that last post by rofocowoy84. you've got the idea,and on the right track
       
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    3. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      Ooh, sexy, lol....

      [​IMG]

      INFO HERE

      Eventually I'd like to turn my overhead console into a larger switch panel, with switches for off-road and fog lights (OEM "fog" aka driving lights will be left on the normal headlight panel), winch, diff lockers, etc, but I figure for right now just put this in the black part where the moonroof switch is, that way it has it's own little section away from all of the other switches. Plus, it's black, so it won't contrast weirdly with the gray of the rest of the console, and it's angles toward you a little bit better. I'll just have to move the moonroof switch until I can get the other switch panel made...
       
    4. albi1cnobi1

      albi1cnobi1 Elite Mountaineer Elite Explorer

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      I just picked up one very similar to that one for about $24.00 but it doesn't have the acc switch. The paddle switch and the push button switch are lighted as well as a power on light. oooo...aaahhh.
       
    5. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      Got a link? I just emailed joesracing.com to see if that panel could be backlit, I can't tell if that engraving is painted white or actually translucent....
       
    6. Mbrooks420

      Mbrooks420 High Voltage. Elite Explorer

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      You can get another PATS key programmed, and take the actually chip out of the key,(there is a little cover you can pry off) then take the steering colum cover off, and stick the chip right on ignition cylinder itself.
       
    7. albi1cnobi1

      albi1cnobi1 Elite Mountaineer Elite Explorer

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      i bought it at Pep Boys. it's in with all the neon and specialty stuff for the "fast and furious" types.
       
    8. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      Permanently bypassing the PATS was discussed, but the idea was discarded immediately because the system wouldn't be secure, at all. We're trying to make a system that forgoes a key, but still needs a security feature to prevent any half-assed thief from just smashing a window and driving off with your car....
       
    9. albi1cnobi1

      albi1cnobi1 Elite Mountaineer Elite Explorer

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      Mbrooks, i don't know if that will work or not. the PATS talks to the transponder and vice-versa. it works off of inductance thats why the bypass units have a coil around the key cylinder and the key in the unit. theres a factory coil in the lock cylinder that uses the metal in the key to induce the data read.
       
    10. albi1cnobi1

      albi1cnobi1 Elite Mountaineer Elite Explorer

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      if the bypass unit is hidden and secure you can hide a signal relay and switch that if its not on theres no worky no matter what
       
    11. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

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      Get a magnetic ring, lots of cool ones , just use google. Then you install the PATS bypass module, and hide a magnetic switch behind the switch panel you plan to mount your start button in. When your hand goes to start it, the ring will trip the switch, which sends a signal to the PATS bypass module, and will allow you to start the truck.

      If you want you can add a hidden bypass switch somewhere, so if the truck is at the shop, just turn it on and then you wont have to divulge your magnet secret.
       
    12. albi1cnobi1

      albi1cnobi1 Elite Mountaineer Elite Explorer

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      man after my own heart.
       
    13. albi1cnobi1

      albi1cnobi1 Elite Mountaineer Elite Explorer

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      hey rofocowboy84 the switch is made by NETAMI. part #67-0905 quick starter switch kit
       
    14. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      Hmmm.....good idea, but I'm not really a ring-wearing kinda guy....
       
    15. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

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    16. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      Well I'm thinking it shouldn't be all that hard to get an RFID system integrated into this, that way you don't have a gaudy looking keypad somewhere, and all you have to do is sit down, flip the ignition switch, and push the start button....
       
    17. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

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      RFID would work, but I think the distances are a little short. I remember when I was looking in to this, I was going to do it with a small bluetooth keyfob. It would also be harder to defeat, I do NOT addivse you rely on RFID for car security. All I need do to is hit yo with an RFID reader at somepoint, and copy the info your RFID card spits out, and I now have access to your car...
       
    18. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bluetooth a dual-active system, ie, both receiver and transmitter have to be powered? I'm not too keen on switching out batteries in my key fob every month or so, and not being able to start my car in the middle of nowhere just because my key fob died. With RFID, only the transciever/reader needs power, correct?

      I'm not too worried about people reading my key fob. First of all, if someone was just randomly walking around the mall picking up RFID codes and got mine, what are they chances they'd know that the Silver 2004 Explorer XLT Sport out in the parking lot has a custom keyless ignition system that uses that code? After all, the system like Nissan (and other manufacturers, I just know Nissan's b/c of my friend), is RFID, right? To me, RFID in this sense seems reasonably safe. Plus, at this stage in the game, I still plan on using the regular key/key fob/number pad to unlock the car, and this system only to start it, so the thief would still have to break into my car.
       
    19. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      I've been mulling something else over in my head. Does the PATS only matter while trying to start the car, or does it have to be "happy" the whole time or else it shuts the engine off?

      What I'm thinking is, say you leave for work or whatever, but forgot something in your house, so you turn around, pull into your driveway, and get out. If the key fob was still in your pocket, once the transceiver lost the signal and therefor stopped the signal to the bypass, would the PATS system shut the car off, or since the engine is already running, the PATS system would no longer matter?

      Also, how much harder do you think it would be to tie this into the OEM ignition system, that way in case this one fails, you still have the good ol' key to start your car?

      Excuse me if I'm rambling, I'm going on 33 hours without sleep, lol....
       
    20. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

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      PATS is only in effect when starting, and I've found smal bluetooth keyfobs with excellent battery life =]
       
    21. BrianDye

      BrianDye I'll have another...

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      :popcorn: im gonna deff. try our final decision on what kind of ignition and everything...as long as its not too expensive :D:D
       
    22. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      Ooh, do share! :D:D:thumbsup::thumbsup:

      How's the range on them? And by "excellent battery life", you mean, like 5 years or so? Do they come with a transceiver too? I've been looking around at different RFID systems, but if this bluetooth works better, I'm all for it.

      Alright, now to get some sleep. I'll be back on in the evening, and maybe, just maybe we can get this whole thing figured out and start speccing out the different parts, lol...

      Oh yeah, and the PATS thing is a huge relief, once we get the bluetooth/RFID figured out, that should pretty much be it....lol...I'm so excited...
       
    23. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      Did everyone else fall asleep too? In researching it more, if we want to get a decent range of like 2' or so, we're going to need an active RFID system, so the Bluetooth will actually be better, because either way the key fob needs a battery. The only question is, will BT be any harder to program than RFID? I know with my BT headset I had to type in the password on the phone and get the phone to accept it and stuff....
       
    24. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

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      BT would be easy to control. Sure it's a bit more work than RFID, but if you can get it to work riht, based off of signal strength, as you walk closer, it could unlock the doors, start the car, etc..

      I'm too short on time and motivation to work this one out for you guys though, sorry.
       
    25. Rofocowboy84

      Rofocowboy84 Active Member

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      That's fine, I'm willing to work it out....but do you happen to remember the BT kit that you were talking about?
       
    26. inh

      inh Well-Known Member

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      It was on sparkfun.com, one of the SMD modules, draws 2mAh in low power mode.
       

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