Discussion in 'Stock 2002 - 2005 Explorers' started by PJ_10, April 16, 2017.
It is a cat
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@Tech By Trade
My 2004 4.0 Flex has only the 2 cats, one on either bank, wye pipe combines to dump into a plain, big old muffler. imp
Should to the following ALL should have 3 CAT's, they dump into a big CAT under the middle-front of the vehicle, the muffler is on the left side of rear between the rear door and tire. If one only has two I'm betting someone removed it!!!
That's how Illinois does the testing as well.
@TechGuru 4973, above, is absent on my 2004, build date was earlier than 3-1-04. No evidence that the exhaust system was re-worked, all welds look like machine-precision. Wye pipe is continuous, straight, no evidence of muffler-shop intrusion. The 2409 is a big muffler. Is it possible that 3rd. cat might have been factory-included (or not) dependent on geographical shipment destination? Bought from original owner, a lady, with 90K on the meter. imp
I have seriously learned more here and online in the last few days than ever before about my Explorer's cats/exhaust system, thanks to you all. Today I talked to a few people that have worked for Ford dealers/corporate, and it sounds like the dealer/service guy may have intended to help me out cost-wise by doing the cat "repair" as they did and prob never expected me to even question it as far as the legality. Sounds like it's just a crappy situation overall just because of the labor costs, but I do appreciate the comments for sure.
The very busy recommended independent shop I went to today, the guys were all curious about the dealer "repair" and spent over an hour with me discussing everything, showing me what new cats look like, with no appointment, at zero charge to inspect (with cameras) everything the dealer worked on and give their opinions and what they'd recommend if I wanted to pursue some money back. I was shocked, for sure.
I think only @FordTechMakuloco would be able to answer this.
even cook county? or are you in a suburb?
Yea, the dealership is not the place to be offering unauthorized repairs. Also, not explicitly explaining that it is an unauthorized repair is fraudulent.
What all did they find?
@96firephoenix ......."even cook county?"
Born and raised there. We referred to it as "Crook County". imp
Found the answer! If it'll copy here: After 3-1-2004, they dropped the rear cat. Crazy car builders.......imp
I'm betting that matches up with when they switched to throttle by wire.
That's really an interesting thought! That would imply that early 2004s had a plain old mechanical throttle body. I hate it when they do major design-changes mid-year......they must think like politicians! imp
I just checked my build date, says 03/04.
It has throttle by wire, and also has the rear (3rd) Cat.
Maybe they had too many old stock and just threw it on.
There's always a fly in the ointment, yes? Wonder if Mounties and Exs were assembled on the same line? Would guess not, unless a batch of one kind, then followed by a batch of the other......Maybe the changeover for Mounties was different from Exs, or maybe the parts seller's info is wrong by some number of days. I'll go check my Ex's build date, and if it's BEFORE 3-1-04, I'll go looking for a nice cold St. Pauli Girl! imp
Probably a cost saving measure, CAT's are expensive. Bet they were able to tune to pass emissions without the 3rd so they could eliminate it. Are the power specs any different between 02-03 and 04-05?
@96firephoenix "gut the cats, detune the sensor, charge $1000. 3-step hack job that won't throw any lights,......."
Might you enlarge on this a bit? How could detuning of an O2 sensor be done? And not throw a CEL? Way I see it, the PCM can only interpret sensor output voltage, and possibly monitor current level. It has no way of relating directly to cat temperature, or gas temp., other than change in O2 heater element current (resistance changes with temp.). So, if any of the parameters programmed in PCM are out of whack, CEL.
If you can detune to get rid of a ridiculously annoying CEL, please help me do it to my own rig! imp
You can actually erase the rear O2 sensors from the tune. My friend is doing that for his turbo Subaru build with no cats...
@Joe in NY
Does he care about CEL? Or even have one? Can you do it for my 2004 Ex? Help! imp
he deleting the rear O2s from the tune because of the CEL. You can make the PCM ignore them completely and no longer have it turn on the CEL bc of the rear O2s. He also is a NY state inspector so he completely removed his cats and can give himself an inspection sticker.
Does anybody actually know what was done to the OP's vehicle?
Some Ford dealer charged him about $1500 more than the parts replaced, and they altered the rear catalytic converter(illegal).
Did the OP report them? This illegal at both the State and Federal level.
And the OP should post the name of this so-called "dealership".
This may very well be a very gray-area thing, since the dealer knows (probably) that Ford dropped use of the rear cat on the exact same application after a certain date.....emissions levels were unaffected by that move, and no other alterations were made that I know of. Except possibly the simultaneous adoption of Electronic Throttle Control, as suggested by @TechGuru.
The legality depends on the precise wording of the EPA laws, which I personally do not care to investigate. imp
What I find interesting is how would the 3rd cat be clogged and not one of the front ones? You'd think the front ones would clog up first (or one of them if one side is not running correctly)