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Decreasing IAT on my Supercharged SOHC V6

Discussion in 'Need for Speed!' started by 2000StreetRod, August 20, 2014.


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    1. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      fan almost fits

      I removed the bolts/nuts that mount the grille reinforcement then slid it forward enough to disconnect the headlight connectors and set the assembly aside. The fan housing is only about 1/4 inch wider than the opening.
      FanMount2.jpg
      There's a plastic clip on the driver side of the opening that holds some weather stripping to prevent air being sucked in from the side between the A/C condenser and the radiator support. On the passenger side I would have to cut a notch in the bracket and the lip behind it because the fan housing front to the rear of the motor is about 3/8 inch greater than the rear of the bracket. That would weaken the bracket which is the only center support/mount for the grille reinforcement. I think I'll remove the stock weather stripping/clip since it does not provide a good seal. Then Ill cut a notch on the driver side and use adhesive to attach a longer section of weather stripping.

      I'll have to mount the new heat exchanger as low as possible in the opening to allow room for the passenger side port fitting. I'll probably have to lower the engine oil cooler thermostat and reroute all four port hoses associated with it. The top fitting and hose is removed in the photo.
       
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    3. joecrna

      joecrna Active Member

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      Thats the same B&M trans cooler I use. It rated at something like 24,500 BTU by there procedure. Whatever that may be. The NPT fittings indicate its for racing and has no temp bypass as you said. Noticed you were mounting it correctly, nipples up. Plate coolers trap air bad if upside down. Otherwise very efficient and robust.
       
    4. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      My input would be...front heat exchanger is to small and using a heater core as a IC does not work well at absorbing heat..honestly I never liked how he sets up the ic at all, just doesnt look very efficient. .

      Also I know you are using shared container from engine radiator, is hot water from the radiator mixing with that?? Is it a sealed container or vented?

      But do know 160* was the MAX my dyno guy wanted to ever see for IAT, he honestly didnt want to see over 140* as I dont have a knock sensor and am obd1 :(
       
    5. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      160 degrees max

      Thanks for the info about 160 degrees max. I agree that my heat exchanger will be smaller than the normal size that stretches across the lower front between the wheels. But I hope with the forced cooling it will be adequate for street use with low boost pressures. As I previously posted my goal is a max IAT of 150 degrees.

      Even though I'm using the coolant overflow reservoir there is very little flow between the radiator and the reservoir. Normally, the only flow is after starting the engine as the coolant warms (expands) and shutting the engine off when coolant cools (contracts). According to my remote reading thermometer the radiator temperature on a warm day with the engine idling is 150 degrees. The reservoir is not pressurized. The only advantage to pressurization is to prevent vaporization of the coolant. Water vaporizes at 212 degrees at standard atmospheric pressure. Adding antifreeze/coolant and pressurization increases that temperature. When I finish the system I may experiment with some special additives to increase heat transfer of the coolant.
       
    6. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

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      Im interested in the results with the fan.
       
    7. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      WOT only fan

      I suspect the fan will be noisy - I haven't tested it yet. I'll probably only have it activate at WOT since that's the only time I have an IAT issue. I'll datalog IATs with and without the fan running to see how much affect it has.
       
    8. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Fitting the heat exchanger

      The heat exchanger looks like it will fit pretty well in the opening and probably would be a good choice for an auxiliary ATF cooler.
      CoolerMount1.jpg
      I'll have to cut a hole for the 1/2 inch dia. 90 degree NPT male to hose barb elbow.
      CoolerMount2.jpg
       
    9. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      sooo close to making it fit with zero cutting. Too bad.

      What I would like to see is the coolant pump and fan turn on at a couple pounds boost (hobbs switch) and stay on for a couple of minutes after your out of boost.

      To me, this makes the most sense as the intercooler does not need to have coolant running thru it unless there is boosted air, then after your out of boost the system should continue to run for a couple of minutes to bring the intercooler and coolant back to ambient temps.

      This would keep noise down, and extend life of components.
       
    10. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      excellent idea!

      Don, that's an excellent idea! My intercooler pump always stays primed because it is lower than the reservoir and the heat exchanger ports. So there is coolant flow almost immediately when the pump is energized. It's a waste of electricity and pump service life for the intercooler pump to run whenever the fuel pump is activated. A normally open, adjustable Hobbs switch is exactly what I need to activate the intercooler pump, heat exchanger fan, and possibly a vacuum motor for the brake booster. I'll have to start searching for an appropriate part.
       
    11. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Ive been looking around for an appropriate delay timer. My issue is that most delay timers seem to start as soon as power is applied. We want the delay to start timing after the power is switched off (out of boost).

      I think once an appropriate, affordable delay timer and a 1 psi hobbs switch are sourced, the rest is easy.
       
    12. shucker1

      shucker1 Elite Explorer

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      Forgive me for interrupting.

      Perhaps this would work?

      http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/NCC/70059682.pdf

      AmTek T3 Series
       
    13. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      AmTek T3 Series

      That has the correct logic. The output relay closes on control input positive transition, the timer activates on the negative transition, and the relay remains closed until the settable timer expires. However, the operating temperature range would prevent it from being mounted under the hood. I don't particularly care for the 11 pin circular connector that also serves as a mount. Also, relay contacts are rated at 10 amps. I'll be looking for a separate timer/relay controller and relay instead of an integrated unit.

      By the way, you're not interrupting. Your comments are encouraged.
       
    14. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Hobbs switch

      So far the most suitable switch I've found is the Hobbs HPS-2. It comes with a factory setting of 2 psi but is field adjustable from 1 psi to 3 psi. It comes with a Metri-Pack connector and the sensor port is male 1/8 - 27 NPT. The temperature rating is -40 to 259 deg F but unfortunately for me the switch contact rating is only 8 amps at 12 VDC and decreases as the voltage increases. It would be adequate to turn on and off (with no delay) my intercooler pump which only draws 2.2 amps but my fan is rated at 7 amps and probably draws more than that at activation. So I'll probably select a 20 amp relay to have a safety margin. The other issue is the physical size of the switch and access to a boost port. It's almost 3 inches long (includes the pipe threads) and 1.5 inches in dia.
      Hobbs_cutaway.jpg
      I have an unused port on the passenger side of the intake manifold.
      Install10.jpg
      But there's inadequate room there for the switch because on the plenum.
      LoomFit2.jpg
      The easiest method would be to just insert a T fitting in the hose that goes to the vacuum/boost gauge and then install a female NPT to hose fitting on the switch. Maybe I could mount the switch on the firewall between the EGR valve and the windshield wiper motor.
      EGRPipe2.jpg

      Here's a link to the switch best price source I've found: Pressure Switch, 2PSI, SPST M/P280S
      You can also get the weather tight mating connector at the same source: Connector Set, Hobbs Switch
       

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    15. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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    16. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Dremel success

      I tested the fan today and it pulls about 9 amps at start up and quickly drops to 6 amps at full speed. I decided to cut the passenger side using my Dremel with a cut off wheel. The vertical cutout between the green arrows is 2.5 inches from the A/C condenser which leaves a 1/8 inch gap for the fan motor.
      FanMount3.jpg
      I also removed the front lip marked by the blue arrows.
      The rear of the fan shroud sits in front of the rear lip.
      FanMount4.jpg
      The fan came with mounting tabs. Now I have to figure out what to attach them to.
       
    17. shucker1

      shucker1 Elite Explorer

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      Actually you could cab mount the control \ relay cube and have 2 pairs run to the engine compartment.

      One for Switch lead and one as a control for a "High Amp" relay coil.

      Lots of options out there in the field. I'll search in my spare time. I've seen what your looking for in the past but I just can't remember where.
       
    18. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      courtesy lamp delay module

      There used to be available courtesy lamp delay modules for 1970s and earlier vehicles that didn't have that function. Newer vehicles (our Explorers) have a GEM or equivalent that provides the capability. I may build one to mount in the passenger compartment. I probably have all the components I need in my electronics parts bins (555 timer, resistor, capacitor, voltage regulator, prototype circuit board, etc.). It would be a fun project but I should be able to buy one for about $10. I just haven't found one for 12 vdc, correct logic, no relay and the desired time delay.
      I could use the 10 amp max Car Delay Off Timer shown below for $15 from eBay for the intercooler pump and to control another relay for the heat exchanger fan.
      CarDelayOffTimer.jpg
       
      Last edited: September 15, 2014
    19. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Nice find!
      I purchased one also. The price is really good, and shipping to Canada was only $3.00. Its a win!
      This will make a truly automatic system.
       
    20. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Selecting coolant & antifreeze

      Typical automotive antifreeze is ethylene glycol and it significantly lowers the engine coolant freezing point and raises the boiling point. However, it also significantly decreases cooling efficiency as does the alternative propylene glycol.

      Coolant Type * Freezing Point * Boiling Point * Specific Heat * Latent Heat Of Evaporation * Thermal Conductivity

      *** Water ********** 32 ******** 212 ******** 1.00 ********* 970 Btu/lb ***************** .60
      Ethylene glycol *** -84 (70%) ***** 387 ********* .65 ********* 344 Btu/lb ***************** .26
      Propylene glycol **** -74 ********* 371 ********* .69 ********* 393 Btu/lb ***************** .15

      From the above it is obvious that water is superior to both glycols for conducting heat and for absorbing heat prior to vaporization.

      Red Line's SuperCool Water Wetter is advertised to improve heat transfer compared to glycol based antifreeze but has no freeze protection. Liquid Performance's Ice Water advertises it is glycol free (but not what it does contain) and has no freeze protection. Using Royal Purple's Purple Ice is claimed to result in lower engine temperatures than using "straight water" but has no freeze protection. Maybe it contains additives that reduce the surface tension of water to increase heat transfer.

      For my street engine I'll eventually try the least amount of antifreeze needed for freeze protection and possibly a corrosion inhibitor and a surface tension reducer to see if that has any effect on the heat exchanger performance.
       
    21. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      For the summer, it would be nice to just run demineralized water with a corrosion inhibitor of some sort. The down side of this is that in fall you have maintenance that must be done before catastrophe strikes.
      Don't most of the water wetter products offer the corrosion inhibitor?
       
    22. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      finished cutting

      I finished cutting out the metal to allow mounting the heat exchanger/fan assembly. The upper cutout makes room for the 1/2 inch brass elbow.
      CoolerMount3.jpg
      I plan to drill a few holes in the center section to secure the assembly with cable ties.
       
    23. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    24. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Fan/cooler installed

      FanMount6.jpg
      FanMount5.jpg
      I have to trim the upper bracket with my Dremel to provide clearance for the output hose.
       
      Last edited: October 1, 2014
    25. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Pex fittings

      Today I started replacing the 3/4 inch and half inch dia. Pex fittings with the larger internal diameter standard brass fittings in an attempt to reduce coolant flow restriction. I hope to be ready for a leak test on Wednesday and to start wiring the cooler blower. I have yet to determine a 15 amp power source for the intercooler pump/cooler fan combination.
       
    26. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      coolant leak test

      I finished plumbing the heat exchanger.
      FanCooler4.jpg
      Apparently even though the new cooler is larger than the stock ATF cooler it holds less coolant. The new fittings have larger internal diameters than the Pex fittings and short lengths of hoses are larger diameter. I did not catch all of the coolant when I drained the system but I could not get all of what I caught back in. I ran the system for several minutes to make sure all of the air pockets were filled. Fortunately, there were no leaks.

      I pulled out the driver seat to improve access for wiring the fan/intercooler pump controller. I plan to use the cigar lighter circuit (I don't smoke) for power. It is a 25 amp fused, hot at all times circuit with nothing else connected that is fairly accessible. I hope to mount the controller behind the HVAC control panel. I'll probably just use a toggle switch to activate the controller until I determine what to do for a Hobbs switch equivalent.

      I disconnected the AN fittings/hoses from the engine oil cooler and thermostat and began experimenting with rerouting combinations to lower it. I never did like the loop I installed in my first installation.
       

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