Engine Idle Hours

[Condition1]

Hi all, I'm seriously considering picking up a used PIU to be a daily driver, they have everything I want (a little more power, better brakes, better handling, column shifter, AWD, understated style) and none of the things I don't want. That said, I was wondering, how many engine idle hours is tolerable/acceptable on these in your opinion?
Thanks!

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum.

Peter

 

[Stinger3092]

I would not worry too much about idle hours to be honest I too am considering getting a PIU. I'm coming from Crown Vic Police Interceptor I purchased it with 76,000 miles and 5155 idle hours. Car drove and still drives like it has 76,000 miles (has 93,000 now and 5200 hours now) idle hours do not really mean much at all it's really just wasting fuel that's about it there's never been a case where a police car's engine had to be replaced solely due to idle hour ware. It's not putting stress on your tires, suspension etc. just the electrical system but that's why Ford put in heavy duty alternator and battery for the Police Package vehicles. If you try to get one with low idle hours you're only going to be wasting your time as most will be patrol cars which will always have a lot of idle hours.

 

[peterk9]

Many articles say that idling is more harmful to a gasoline engine than running (driving) it. Issues brought up are incomplete combustion of the gasoline which in turn has a negative effect on the spark plugs, cylinders and exhaust components. I guess in a way that's saying idling really has no positive effects on the engine.

Peter

 

[Condition1]

This is great feedback so far, thank you!

Most of the ones I come across in my price range that aren't salvage titled have roughly 5-6,000 idle hours and around 75,000 miles on the odometer.

 

[Inane222]

The engine idle hours and mileage you're finding are very typical for a patrol vehicle. I loved this feature when Ford brought it out on the new cluster in the CV in 2006. Ford did their homework on this and it only counts when the engine is running the the transmission is in Park or Neutral. So the true story is mileage plus idle hours. Every year, in their owner's manual, Ford has equated 1 idle hour to 33 driven miles.

At first, I think some of your fleet garages were actually paying attention to it. That quickly died off and everyone just went back to maintenance schedules based on mileage alone.

On our command staff CV's, they might get turned in with close to 200k miles on them and only have 500-600 idle hours. Their idling is done on winter mornings in the driveway. They drive to the office and shut it down for the rest of the day. But a patrol car with 100K on it will have thousands of idle hours, as your finding.

Back in the day, one of the biggest problem you saw from idling was rotted exhaust from the water building up in the mufflers. Once they went to stainless construction, that went away. Our track cars are old CV's and they will run all day, 10-12 hrs hard. After about an hour of idling, you'll hear the mufflers gurgling because they have quite a lot of water in them. Someone will open the door and floor it and it blows out like a water hose!

Good luck in your search!

 

[unixadm]

There was a rough ballpark figure that every idle hour was equivalent to 30 miles driven which could have been pulled out of someone's behind, but that seemed reasonable to me. Keep in mind that in addition to the engine, you are rotating all of the accessories along with the input shaft of the transmission. Idling does cause wear and in warmer climates, it's also much harder on the charging system, cooling system and fans. When I bought my 2015 PIU Ecoboost, the first thing I asked for were the idle hours which were around 170-190 with 27k miles on it. My PIU was part of Ford's QA test fleet (Michigan), so it never saw police use and by the time I bought it had averaged about 46 MPH over it's lifetime (based on total engine hours minus idle hours). I'm pretty sure most of the idle hours were trying to get it warmed up in the winter. You couldn't get the total engine hours from the CVPI to determine the vehicle's average speed based on its mileage, so I'm glad they added that with the newer interceptors.

 

[peterk9]

Anyone know what this switch does? Police Idle Activation Switch

Peter

 

[PlatinumOwner]

Anyone know what this switch does? Police Idle Activation Switch

Peter

It does the same thing as the "Police Engine Idle" option in the keyless models. With keyed models, it lets you keep the engine idling and remove the key. The shifter is locked in Park.

 

[lmedwards]

Hi all, I'm seriously considering picking up a used PIU to be a daily driver, they have everything I want (a little more power, better brakes, better handling, column shifter, AWD, understated style) and none of the things I don't want. That said, I was wondering, how many engine idle hours is tolerable/acceptable on these in your opinion?
Thanks!

I just came across this thread and thought I would add this information in case anyone else is considering the same. I work with police cars, equipment, and maintenance. Police cars lead a rough life and you should be wary. Ford Fleet considers one hour of idling to be the equivalent of 33 miles driven. So the calculation to make is Idle Hours x 33 + odometer mileage = Total miles on the engine. So, if there are 5,000 idle hours and 75,000 miles on the odometer, 5,000 x 33 + 75,000 = 240,000 miles on the engine.

 

[peterk9]

I just came across this thread and thought I would add this information in case anyone else is considering the same. I work with police cars, equipment, and maintenance. Police cars lead a rough life and you should be wary. Ford Fleet considers one hour of idling to be the equivalent of 33 miles driven. So the calculation to make is Idle Hours x 33 + odometer mileage = Total miles on the engine. So, if there are 5,000 idle hours and 75,000 miles on the odometer, 5,000 x 33 + 75,000 = 240,000 miles on the engine.

Welcome to the Forum.
Interesting info.

Peter

 

[Trader0000]

My PIU has 157,578 miles

and 8,74 idle hours (8674x33)+157576=443,20 total miles and runs great so take that it with a gain of salt. It was driven hard, was a pursuit city car and has right front bumper/trim damage from doing pit maneuver.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I think that formula is for maintenance, not a mileage equality correlation. Just because your oil is worn out doesn’t mean the car has an equivalent of an oil change interval of wear.

 

[Trader0000]

Yes you are correct, this is from my PIU owners manual.

 

[KayGee]

I think that formula is for maintenance, not a mileage equality correlation. Just because your oil is worn out doesn’t mean the car has an equivalent of an oil change interval of wear.

By definition, it is a 'mileage equality correlation' - just for maintenance purposes as you mentioned, not overall vehicle mileage. It is for more than just engine oil/OCI.

I wonder if this is the reason why some PIUs had trans issues that went away with a fluid change. If the engine is idling, the trans fluid is heating up and pumping through the trans. I wonder if all the maintenance that is supposed to be happening based on mileage equivalence is really happening? ATF supposed to be changed every 30K miles, spark plugs every 60K, coolant flush and fill at 100K and then 150K, drive belt replacements, and so on...

Above is based on Ford fleet maintenance schedule for extensive idling and/or driving at low speeds.

Then there's the PTU. A high idle hour PIU is probably slow cooking the PTU since the exhaust is so close, but there is little to no airflow to help disperse the heat if the vehicle is just sitting and idling...

 

[Trader0000]

When I purchased my PIU with 154K miles I checked the trans level and it was dark grey. I would sometimes get a hard shift from first to second gear. So I decided to have the transmission flushed. The local oil shop warned me that after the flush that there was no guarantee that the transmission would function of may fail within a week. I took a chance and they flushed it twice because after the first flush it was still black in color. They did not drop the pan or replaced the filter. In looking back I should have taken it to a transmission shop and had the filter changed but I was a noob about the Explorer PIU. The flush used a total 24 quarts of Valoline Max Life Synthetic ATF and Valoline trans cleaner and conditioner. They did not charge for the extra fluid or time. After the flush and 3K miles later and the transmission is shifting as it should with no problems. I plan to do the PTU when it gets warmer outside.
I guess it is a matter of rolling the dice if you want it done but there are threads that members have had surging RPMs that have been solved by replacing the transmission fluid.

 

[KayGee]

When I purchased my PIU with 154K miles I checked the trans level and it was dark grey. I would sometimes get a hard shift from first to second gear. So I decided to have the transmission flushed. The local oil shop warned me that after the flush that there was no guarantee that the transmission would function of may fail within a week. I took a chance and they flushed it twice because after the first flush it was still black in color. They did not drop the pan or replaced the filter. In looking back I should have taken it to a transmission shop and had the filter changed but I was a noob about the Explorer PIU. The flush used a total 24 quarts of Valoline Max Life Synthetic ATF and Valoline trans cleaner and conditioner. They did not charge for the extra fluid or time. After the flush and 3K miles later and the transmission is shifting as it should with no problems. I plan to do the PTU when it gets warmer outside.
I guess it is a matter of rolling the dice if you want it done but there are threads that members have had surging RPMs that have been solved by replacing the transmission fluid.

That was kind of the point of my post. The Ford fleet maintenance schedule for extensive idling and/or driving at low speeds calls for changing ATF every 30K miles. My guess is that there are very few, if any, fleets following the proper maintenance guidelines. If they were, trans issues, like yours and the surging others have had, shouldn't happen... Maintenance is expensive. Proper maintenance (i.e. preventative) even moreso.

I believe the filters on all the 6F## trans can only be changed by removing the trans from the vehicle and separating the case halves (only done at a rebuild or not at all).

 

[Speedbird]

So a quick question...

is 9000 idle hours too much with 140,000 actual miles on the clock

 

[peterk9]

So a quick question...

is 9000 idle hours too much with 140,000 actual miles on the clock

That's 375 days.

 

[Speedbird]

That's 375 days.

my goodness!