Engine wont shut off

[DCUpton]

Hello Explorer Brothers and Sisters,

I'v looked through the forums and have done google searches on the issue of my 2012 Ford Explorer XLT not shutting off when I turn the key to the off position. To be clear, my Explorer is a manual key turn to start/ stop, NOT push button start/ stop. I was recently able to actually turn the key to the off position, while the Explorer was in park, remove the key from the ignition, and drive the Explorer. I was in an almost empty parking lot, so, I backed up a few feet then re-parked the Explorer. I repeated this a few times to see if i could and had no problem operating the Explorer in either direction while the ignition was off and the key removed.

This is the second experience that I have had of this kind. I took it to the dealer since it is under warrantee and they claimed it was a computer issue and kept the Explorer for a couple of days. When I got it back, the problem was resolved or so I thought. Its been about 6 months since the "Fix" was completed and not the symptom has returned.

There are a few other quirks going on with the Explorer that lead me to believe that there is a computer or software issue such as slow responding fuel gauge and connectivity/ operations issues with my phone but I will address those in another post.

So, I guess I have 2 questions for the guru's here:

1. Has anyone else experienced this kind of Engine/ Ignition problem

2. Should I open a case with NTSB or other agency since it could be a safety concern?

 

[peterk9]

Welcome to the Forum.
We've had posts about radios that won't turn off but I believe this the first time I recall your issue coming up. Your other question is a little more difficult to answer since what is causing the problem hasn't been isolated. Have you tried disconnecting the negative battery cable and reconnecting after 10 minutes or so to see if that might resolve it?

Peter

 

[DCUpton]

Hello again fellow Explorers,
Well, same issue of not shutting off happened again while I was out running errands last weekend. I drove from where I was eating lunch about 2 miles to a pharmacy and my Explorer wouldn't shut off again. This time, I took video since anyone I have ever talked to says that the Explorer shouldn't do that. Well, contrary to their beliefs, it did and now I have it on video. So there I was sitting in a parking lot not being able to shut my Explorer off. I was able to rotate the key in the ignition to the off position, remove the key, shift the Explorer into reverse and drive the Explorer. I backed up a few feet, shifted into drive and returned to the parking place. Shifting back into park, I re-inserted the key into the ignition, rotated fully clockwise as if I was starting the explorer from a stopped engine state. Rotating the key back to the off position, I was again able to remove the key while the engine continued to run. Again, all of this is on video.

I called my local ford dealership, Tuttle-Click Ford Irvine CA and spoke with someone in their service group. This guy was a robot, at best. After going through what I was experiencing, he suggested I make an appointment for Monday to bring it in to have it looked at. WHAT? I'm sitting in an Explorer that WONT SHUT OFF and his best suggestion is to wait 48 hours to get it "looked at". How, exactly, am I to do that I ask him, since the Explorer wont shut off. His response was that I could bring it to him then and leave it until Monday for them to look at. He was completely unable to comprehend that the Explorer was running and unable to shut off. No help whatsoever. So, I passed on that support and called Santa Margarita Ford and spoke to someone in their service group. She walked me through a few tests and said it sounded like an ignition cylinder or ignition module , but they would know for sure if I could bring it in the following week. She then told me that if it didn't shut off by continually rotating the ignition from off to on to off, that I could remove the battery cables and the Explorer would shut off. Finally, a suggestion on how to shut the engine off.

As it turned out, I left the parking lot (with the key in the ignition) and drove home so I could remove the battery cables and shut down the Explorer. When I got home, the Explorer shut down properly via key rotation to the off position. thank goodness.

The week following the latest incident was a work travel week for me, but I was returning Thursday night, so, I made an appointment for Friday morning 9/26/16 at Santa Margarita Ford for them to look at the Explorer's ignition, ect...

So, I get here this morning at 9:00 for my appointment and the guy that set the appointment for me had written it up as a service visit for oil change windshield wiper, and some other maintenance nonsense. WHAT? I cleared that up with him and showed him the video I shot the weekend before. he took a few notes and my keys and said he would have it checked out. 3 hours into my stay here in the waiting area, I'm told that they looked into the system and didn't see any codes and weren't able to replicate the condition I reported. I asked if they had actually tested the Ignition module or looked at the cylinder and wasn't given a very clear yes or no, but was offered to take the Explorer and come back next week. Again, WHAT? So I asked him if FORD's real suggestion was for me to take my UNSAFE explorer away and hope that nothing happens? Oh, he said no, that wasnt. He was just concerned that I had already been here 3 hours and didn't want me waiting longer since they were breaking for lunch from noon til 1:00pm. So, I want to waste another day next week too? I'll pass. I'm still here, waiting, frustrated and hungry. Not a very good combination with free internet and the ability to write reviews or look into NTSB reporting.

Will Update if and when updates are provided.

 

[champco]

YUK!! Hope this story has a happy ending. For me I would be driving with tools to disconnect the battery to shut it off... hopefully. You were not able to try that yet?????

 

[bigdude2468]

I wrote about my experience a couple of times. I was driving 70 mph on a cross country trip when I lost instruments, radio, power windows, door locks etc etc. Engine seemed to be running fine but absolutely nothing else worked. I was close to Madison WI so I drove to the closest Ford dealer. Drove into the service area and turned the key, removed it and the engine kept running. I loved the part when the Service Advisor asked me to turn the engine off and I handed him the keys. Long story but they removed the + battery cable to shut the engine off, waited 10 seconds, hooked it back up and everything was fine. Did not lose anything, radio pre-sets were there and that was 2 1/2 years ago without it happening again. In my case it set every trouble code possible, cleared them and that was that. Your case does in fact seem to be ignition switch which just sends a signal to the BCM / ECM to engage starter.
.I don't believe there is a direct connection to the starter or an interruption to power supply to shut engine down. .

 

[champco]

I wrote about my experience a couple of times. I was driving 70 mph on a cross country trip when I lost instruments, radio, power windows, door locks etc etc. Engine seemed to be running fine but absolutely nothing else worked. I was close to Madison WI so I drove to the closest Ford dealer. Drove into the service area and turned the key, removed it and the engine kept running. I loved the part when the Service Advisor asked me to turn the engine off and I handed him the keys. Long story but they removed the + battery cable to shut the engine off, waited 10 seconds, hooked it back up and everything was fine. Did not lose anything, radio pre-sets were there and that was 2 1/2 years ago without it happening again. In my case it set every trouble code possible, cleared them and that was that. Your case does in fact seem to be ignition switch which just sends a signal to the BCM / ECM to engage starter.
.I don't believe there is a direct connection to the starter or an interruption to power supply to shut engine down. .

This story brings to mind the Auto Start with key fob option. Like as if somehow programming allows the engine to run yet cannot be driven till the key is placed and turned to ignition position. Again that has to be programmed.
This is most certainly a computer error. Buggy software or a event of some sort creating a sequence of commands to initiate.

 

[sheltonfilms]

Page 15 of this pdf shows the ignition switch:

http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/Wd/DownloadPdf?id=874974

The switch has different lines going to the BCM and PCM. BCM is for Start/RUN, ACC/RUN, and START. PCM is just START.

This leads me to believe that the switch has some redundancy logic built in to determine where the key position is.

IF key is in OFF:
BCM sees no power at any of 3 inputs.
PCM sees no power at input.

IF key is in ACC
BCM only sees power in ACC/RUN.
PCM sees no power at input.

If key is in RUN.
BCM sees power at both START/RUN and ACC/RUN.
PCM sees no power at input.

If key is in Start.
BCM sees power at START/RUN.
PCM sees power at START.

99.999999999% of electrical issues are mechanical in nature and the most mechanical part in the system is the ignition switch.

I bet the contacts are messed up and giving false inputs to the BCM to trick it into thinking its in a different position.

Easiest way to diagnose issue is to get the car to be running in the OFF position and back probe all connections to BCM and see which one is getting voltage. If any are getting voltage then most likely it is the switch.

2280B should be the black lever lock connector on the bottom left of this picture. BTW if you don't know where the BCM is it is underneath the dash on the drivers side up against the A-Pillar. There is a closeout panel that is in the way that has 2 7mm bolts that need to be removed. Should be up and above E-brake pedal.

I bet if you disconnected this connector your car would stop. Which is fine cause then you just take a multimeter and find the terminals and check for voltage (ignition switch would be undisturbed during this).