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Solved Exploring Forced Induction: The Fluid MotorUnion Ford Explorer Turbo Build Thread!

Prefix for threads that contain problems that have been resolved, and there is an answer within the thread.
Good news, everyone! The Explorer’s response and reaction to boost has exceeded our expectations…by quite a large margin.

As everybody left for SEMA, the Explorer was fully assembled and ready to begin life doing dyno runs and adjusting the tune for both daily drivability and all-out ballsiness. While showing you a bunch of pictures of us doing algebra and filling in tables would be exciting for the DIY ECU enthusiast (and not much of anybody else), we figured we would forego those shots. Once we had the tune written enough to where dyno runs were possible, we strapped it to the dyno and slowly began running it, building in revs a little more with each subsequent run. And that’s when the Explorer exceeded our expectations by the aforementioned large margin.

The twin VNT turbos were clearly excited to be attached to the Explorer’s Modular V8, as they decided to build more boost than Honda builds cars. The Explorer needs to boost to no more than 8-10psi for our desired safe levels of power, but instead, the snails were building 12-13 psi at approximately 3500 RPM (and climbing!!). One may see where an issue might lie. The response was absolutely nuts on this car, and boost would come on so rapidly that it seemed physically impossible to compensate for that large of a fuel swing so early in the table. Or was it?!

After a good amount of sitting and theorycrafting, the solution needed to be threefold attack on the problem. The first two steps (which aren’t covered by pictures in today’s blog) were a water-methanol injection system and a fuel pump booster. The third and final step was an alteration to the turbo system itself. In order to keep boost under control, we would need the help of some Tial external wastegates. Two of these guys, to be exact:

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Obviously, one cannot just rest the wastegates inside the engine bay and call it a day. Given the fact that we managed to occupy almost every inch of available space when building the TT kit, we had to make sure fitment was precise, so nothing would interfere with anything else. We found a perfect spot on the downpipes, so we set about fabricating some new flanges from scratch, as well as creating the piping to connect the wastegates to the rest of the system. We had to remove a small bit of the Swain Tech coating from the pipes in order to get it to weld correctly, but the small amount of missing coating shouldn’t affect the overall heat retention properties of the system very much, if at all.

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With the new water-meth, boost-a-pump and wastegates securely in place…

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…It’s right back to work on the dyno, tweaking the tune bit by bit until we reach our desired outcome. Obviously the boost-building issues provided for a small setback, but as with any other vehicle modification that’s one-of-a-kind, issues may crop up from time to time. All we can say is that Scott and his wife have been nice enough to allow us to give in to our strict tenets of perfectionism, as we want nothing but success and reliability to come from this build. So we definitely owe them one big thank you, as well as everybody else in the automotive world that’s shown a great deal of interest in a build of this kind. Everybody’s eyes are on us, so the pressure’s definitely on. Videos will come soon, we promise!

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Have a dyno Video to share by any chance?
 












Oh and its from IL too...
 






This build up here is down right mean! Can't wait to see videos of the x running. Some quarter mile and half mile runs wouldn't be bad either!.

Sweet project.
 






Good news, everyone! We're back! Just in time for Thanksgiving! Let's take a look at what's happened since we disappeared from the boards:

The Rolling Stones sang, “Time is on my side.” Sometimes, though, it’s not on everybody’s side.

Such is the case with the Explorer. As the VNT (variable-vane) turbos were being tuned on the Explorer, there became a bit of a time crunch with the owner in regards to the remaining work on the build. We had told him that tuning the VNTs would be a long process, perhaps taking longer than both parties would hope, but the option always existed to swap the VNT turbos out for more traditional snails. Since tuning the traditional turbos would be a much faster process, the owner opted for that route. So that’s the route we undertook this weekend. First, we had to rip a few things out of the engine bay; namely, the turbos, downpipes, and anything else that relied on the positioning of the VNT turbine and compressor housings.

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With the VNTs out of the way, we opted for a set of small snails to produce the boost we needed. Since boost levels were never to get into the teens, we opted for some standard T3s:

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We then went about milling new flanges out of stainless steel, along with cutting out the old flanges and shaving down the edges of the downpipes to accept the new flanges. Only a short bit of the Swain Tech coating had to be removed, so the heat soak should still remain a non-issue.

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After some quick test fitment…

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…We tacked on the new flanges…

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…And after some more time, the final welds were applied.

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With the welds in place, we reattached all the piping into the engine bay, followed by the turbos. The fitment, as you could guess, is spot on.

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And the elbow grease has already paid off! The Explorer is back on the dyno and tuning is moving along swimmingly. We should have videos for you soon! In the meantime, have a very Happy Thanksgiving!!!
 






So what differences are there between the VNT turbos and the normal ones?
 












So what differences are there between the VNT turbos and the normal ones?

The difference is that the T3 based turbos are bound to have compressor wheels that flow a more sufficient amount of airflow than the T25 compressor wheels in the VNT-25's; and the VNT's have a variable vane turbine housing which basically varies the A/R of the turbine housing (to oversimplify it) to allow for better spooling characteristics on the bottom end while minimizing restriction to cross-turbine wheel flow on the top end when compared to their non-VNT counterparts. The main issue with those Garrett VNT-25's is that they are absolutely tiny for a 4.6 V8's airflow requirements. Their turbines are really small so while they have immediate boost response they also serve as a large restriction on the top end which was why these guys had to weld in extra external wastegates to compensate for this. Couple that with the dual T-25 compressor wheels that flow about 42 lb/min in the 9 psi range (assuming a 60 trim wheel) compared to the roughly 50 lb/min that the 4.6 requires and a bottleneck emerges on the top end again. In short, the T3 based turbos that they went with are probably a much better match to this combo even though they haven't mentioned what exact compressor wheel they went with.

Those VNT-25's would have been much better suited to a 4.0 SOHC TT build in my opinion. Actually they would make for a pretty badass TT build on a 4.0 Explorer. Not that I have plotted the maps for a T-25 compressor wheel to be used in a TT build for a 4.0 Explorer Sport or anything... ;)
 






Alright, folks, we're back from the mysterious nothingness, and we've got a tale of backwash for you.

Essentially, the nature in which the piping was arranged caused an unforeseen problem. As the charged air was coming from each turbocharger on separate sides of the motor, some of the charged air was hitting the throttle plate at low throttle angles. Once it made contact with the throttle plate, it would bounce back through the charge piping, reverberating over the mass airflow (MAF) sensor and causing all sorts of issues at those low-throttle angles. This is the last 5% of the build we need to get past, in order for it to be ready for the road. For us, the easiest way to remedy this issue with the charge piping was to re-do the way the charge piping runs throughout the motor. Instead of each bank working separately and only coming together right before the throttle plate, we plan on running one bank into the other, then over the MAF and into the motor. This should eliminate the backwash and allow us to finish the fine-tuning of the vehicle so we can get it back to Scott in a timely fashion. First things first, though — here’s the engine bay before we altered the intercoolers to accept the new piping routes:

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We also moved the blow-off valves (BOVs) to a different location in the charge piping, as we wouldn’t be using that large T-shaped piece of pipe in the new arrangement:

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Here’s a quick shot of the driver’s side intercooler. We attached this aluminum pipe to the rear of the intercooler so it can reach over the manifold before running inline with the other bank’s intercooler.

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And here’s the passenger side. As you can see from the piping’s angles, the driver’s side charged air will flow over the top of the intake plenum and connect with the passenger side intercooler, where it will run directly to the throttle body.

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And here’s what it looks like when it’s placed in the engine bay, with the charge piping as well:

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Finally, here is the pipe used to run from the passenger side intercooler to the throttle body and intake plenum. Since the IC and the TB are of two different diameters, the pipe has that neck-up to accomodate the different sizes. You can see the fitting for the MAF connected to the pipe, as well:

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And with a few more pieces connected, it’s all back together!

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We’ve had the chance to put it back out on the street, and it’s performing much better than before. Hopefully this will be the last alteration necessary before the first TT Ford Explorer is released into the wild! For now, though, it’s right back where it needs to be — our Dyno Dynamics dynamometer:

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I think the redesigned cold side piping looks quite a bit cleaner near the AWIC's and I am glad to see you got rid of that billet tee too. Appearance-wise I think it is looking better. However, I do have some minor concerns about the size and bend transitions in that charge pipe directly before the slot-in MAFS. Those slot-in MAFS are considerably less picky about perfect laminar airflow than the older tonsil style Ford MAFS but you are still making a pretty decent size and angle transition only inches before the airflow heads into the MAFS filament. Hopefully your resolution will not be too adversely affected by it. I always try to have anywhere from at least 8" to 12"+ of perfectly straight charge pipe before the MAFS so as to ensure that airflow has had a good chance to smooth out before heading through the MAFS to be metered because it leads to less tuning issues. Either way good luck and I look forward to seeing the dyno numbers.

By the way, which T3 turbos did you end up going with?
 






I think the redesigned cold side piping looks quite a bit cleaner near the AWIC's and I am glad to see you got rid of that billet tee too. Appearance-wise I think it is looking better. However, I do have some minor concerns about the size and bend transitions in that charge pipe directly before the slot-in MAFS. Those slot-in MAFS are considerably less picky about perfect laminar airflow than the older tonsil style Ford MAFS but you are still making a pretty decent size and angle transition only inches before the airflow heads into the MAFS filament. Hopefully your resolution will not be too adversely affected by it. I always try to have anywhere from at least 8" to 12"+ of perfectly straight charge pipe before the MAFS so as to ensure that airflow has had a good chance to smooth out before heading through the MAFS to be metered because it leads to less tuning issues. Either way good luck and I look forward to seeing the dyno numbers.

By the way, which T3 turbos did you end up going with?

Precision Turbo T3's (T3 on both the turbine and compressor sides). That's the easy question to answer. :) It's hitting full boost around the same time that the VNT's did.

Regarding the MAF question, the program we're using allows us to tune the MAF, so it helps to eliminate constraints in the piping size. We've tuned in similar constraints before, so we know what to expect from tuning out that lack of straight pipe.

Dyno video and graphs should be up soon! We're big teases, we know, but it's close!
 






Precision Turbo T3's (T3 on both the turbine and compressor sides). That's the easy question to answer. :) It's hitting full boost around the same time that the VNT's did.

Regarding the MAF question, the program we're using allows us to tune the MAF, so it helps to eliminate constraints in the piping size. We've tuned in similar constraints before, so we know what to expect from tuning out that lack of straight pipe.

Dyno video and graphs should be up soon! We're big teases, we know, but it's close!


I am an EFI custom tuner as well and have used the SCT Advantage software that you are probably alluding to. I wasn't referring to losing resolution due to putting the slot-in MAFS into a bigger pipe thus gaining a bit more range also; or retuning the MAF Transfer function to hit your commanded AFR's from your Base Fuel Table at WOT. I was talking about the transitions immediately before the MAFS affecting laminar flow and thus hurting resolution that way which is a difference. Loss of MAFS resolution is not something that can really be regained properly by the tuning itself. If you guys ended up making it through unscathed then that is fine but I don't want you to misunderstand what I was saying in my previous post.

"Precision T3's"? Well that tells everyone in here about nothing on the turbos. So no details on the turbos then? Ok. :thumbsup:
 






I am an EFI custom tuner as well and have used the SCT Advantage software that you are probably alluding to. I wasn't referring to losing resolution due to putting the slot-in MAFS into a bigger pipe thus gaining a bit more range also; or retuning the MAF Transfer function to hit your commanded AFR's from your Base Fuel Table at WOT. I was talking about the transitions immediately before the MAFS affecting laminar flow and thus hurting resolution that way which is a difference. Loss of MAFS resolution is not something that can really be regained properly by the tuning itself. If you guys ended up making it through unscathed then that is fine but I don't want you to misunderstand what I was saying in my previous post.

"Precision T3's"? Well that tells everyone in here about nothing on the turbos. So no details on the turbos then? Ok. :thumbsup:

OJ (the owner) does understand where you're going with it. While this is a thought that's been in our heads, we won't know if it will happen until we encounter it. There are a number of 'what-ifs' involved in any bespoke build, and too much time would be dedicated to chasing down each and every one of them in order to bring every variable as close as possible to the scientific ideal. But, as always, we'll be back here to report how the tuning goes.

We had to relicense the SCT software due to some egregious bureaucratic muck-up on their end, so we were set back a couple days but we're back at it today.

And for the moment, that's all he's willing to divulge on the specific turbo setup. After all, we'd be rather sour if we found somebody else re-creating our own bespoke work through the pictures and the wealth of information in the thread. Not that turbo specifics would be the smoking gun in the build, but that's our story and we're sticking to it :thumbsup:
 






OJ (the owner) does understand where you're going with it. While this is a thought that's been in our heads, we won't know if it will happen until we encounter it. There are a number of 'what-ifs' involved in any bespoke build, and too much time would be dedicated to chasing down each and every one of them in order to bring every variable as close as possible to the scientific ideal. But, as always, we'll be back here to report how the tuning goes.

We had to relicense the SCT software due to some egregious bureaucratic muck-up on their end, so we were set back a couple days but we're back at it today.

And for the moment, that's all he's willing to divulge on the specific turbo setup. After all, we'd be rather sour if we found somebody else re-creating our own bespoke work through the pictures and the wealth of information in the thread. Not that turbo specifics would be the smoking gun in the build, but that's our story and we're sticking to it :thumbsup:


I hear you on the SCT situation. I absolutely love the tuning capability that their software offers but dealing with the company itself can be a pain at times. I wish they would modify how they do their licensing.

I don't think you are going to encounter too many people trying to copy your build since it is an Explorer. Not many Explorer owners do more than boltons if that. I have built a few custom turbo systems whose specifics I have withheld to prevent others from reaping the benefits of my work, but those were usually in more main stream performance vehicles because there is considerably higher chance of people actually wanting to do a single T or TT build on their vehicle. So I do know where you guys are coming from. So if you guys prefer not to divulge that information on the Explorer then I can respect that.
 






Saw the Ex in person-incredible work.

Side note, FMU built a lifted BMW X5 and I saw it driving around over the weekend. A real head turner as well.
 






Can't wait to see it finished.
 






amazing work. Any idea how much it's going to put down? I'm betting 10psi 390-400rwhp.
 






amazing work. Any idea how much it's going to put down? I'm betting 10psi 390-400rwhp.


It should be capable of putting down more than 400rwhp at 10 psi. On that turbo system 10 psi should allow it to see about 430-450rwhp depending on how aggressive the tune is; unless this truck is 4x4 or AWD. With a twin screw blower my truck put down 400rwhp on 9 psi boost about 6 years ago and that was on an otherwise stock 2 valve 4.6 so this turbocharged 3v should do considerably better than that.
 



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Probably right. I don't think the stock bottom end on a 4700 pound vehicle can handle more than that range. Especially if it has a 6r80 with no trans tuning or valve body work.

Mine makes 400 to the rollers at 5psi so his should be higher...until it dies!
 






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