Fuel pump / Fuel tank - Tips and warnings

[rockchucker]

I bet you could get a new one from the dealer. You are talking about the plastic clip on the vent hose aren't you?

 

[travlr]

• Is anyone else amazed by bare electrical connections inside the gas tank for fuel pump/sending unit? I mean.. I thought gasoline and electrical items were not exactly conducive... I mean... what am I missing here?

• Has anyone had any problems with any after-market branded fuel pumps?

 

[bullnerd]

Theres some pics of the inside of a pump at the end of this thread if any one is interested.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242956

 

[ALARMIST]

To those in here experiencing a no hot start condition, and thinking it is a fuel
pump problem ie: starts fine cold, drive awhile, run in somewhere, won't restart (pump sounds different) let sit and or flip the key alot to build up some pressure- restarts maybe rough at first.

I had this condition w/ a 4.0 OHV- my pump was fine!

what was really occuring was this, the truck had some cooling system issues
as many 4.0 OHV. All had seemed corrected, T-stat etc. But not really as you
will see. During this time I had noticed that the temp guage might wander a little, but always in range, figured it was heat load t-stat opening etc.
The radiator dissipates engine heat by absorbing the heat out of the coolant.
My radiator was clean and had excellent flow.
(However, the Aluminum core was not conducting sufficient heat.)

Since I wasn't looking forward to droping the tank, in this particular truck.
and somthing about the hot pump sound was bothering me.
I had a brainstorm, and did the following. I stopped at the first parts store I was close to.To see if they had a radiator in stock, (they had a nice thick Heavy Duty)
about $ 100-130 I think.

Within the hour I had the new radiator installed, the temp gauge now always
read exactly at the T-stat opening temp once warmed up- even
in stopped traffic 100 deg day, with A/C on. It ran better, and NEVER showed any hot start or pump problems again.

For whatever reason, coolant type, additives, age, the radiator seemed fine,
but actually was'nt conducting heat.

The excess heat, most of it in the heads anyway, was trapped there.
(guage fluctuation- steam pockets?) When the vehicle was stopped under the
right (wrong) heat load conditions the excess heat was going into the intake manifold- injectors- fuel rail- etc. The fuel was absorbing the heat and vaporizing. Without liquid fuel to be pushed thru the injectors by the pump, the engine would not start. Given sufficient time the fuel would cool enough to start again. Flipping the key a few times to force the pump to run a few seconds might also clear enough vapor out of the system.

There are all kinds of anti freeze, some can be mixed some can't- I don't know the cause of the non conductive aluminum core, just the result, which could potentially happen in any vehicle.

Most pumps have a clean firm Whirr
sound when you turn the key on- so did this one- except during the heat problem, then it would sound hi lo bubbley. Listen to yours first start in the morning, and then again if you think this is happening. Good luck.

 

[ALARMIST]

When changing tank, pump, fuel filter, etc. with special factory fittings- they sometimes are in need of replacement but it is part of the whole factory installed line.
Depending on the auto parts stores in your area, and the willingness of the counter person you are working with.
There are "repair lines" consisting usually of approx. 18" of new line ready to connect to the old after you cut it back, the new line has the new fitting already installed. Also handy to do away with hose clamps etc. on another vehicle when modernizing. NAPA usually has them.

 

[tjones99]

Intermittent 1995 Explorer Fuel pump

Further to my above post on the fuel pump...

I had replaced it with a Napa E2310M module and was unhappy with the lack of ability to prime itself when low.

Well, after a couple of months of use it started to get noisy to add insult to injury. I emailed Airtex and they were pretty good at getting back and when I indicated that it was so noisy my wife asked what the "rattle" near the back was, they said get it replaced under warranty.

So as a little diversion while we were swapping in a new tranny (another thread) we picked up the warranty replacement. First they gave me an incorrect replacement at Napa then when I showed them the Airtex page that listed the E2059M for my model (there are like 3 different pumps for things like 2 door, 4 door and Mexico made models... get the right one for your vehicle via the VIN and other specs)

The 2059 was as close to an OEM replacement as I could have hooped for, went in nice, primed immediately and was so quiet I had to get someone else to listen while I turned the kkey to hear it come on.

I am happy now.

 

[King$nake]

hmm, I wonder what tool I should use to remove the pressure lines from the tank?

 

[rockchucker]

Get the proper tools from the Parts house. You can get the Plastic ones but they suck donkey balls when it comes to putting any amount of pressure on them for removal. Go for the Aluminum ones. I think all you need is the 5/16 one. Not 100% sure on that though. It was a while ago when I pulled this one.


I too am amazed at the bare wires in the tank going to the Pump. Not a very bright idea if you ask me. In an accident if those wires ever shorted to ground it would seem that there would be a spark and ignition of the Fuel.

 

[jeeprisk]

well i don't feel alone now.
I've swapped relays for the fuel pump, with the horn relay.
both work.
but still waiting for the fuel pump hum to go away and it not start.
mine is intermittent outside temps don't matter.
sitting for days or just got turned off, sometimes it would not pump fuel.
no "hum" on the pump.

would hate to replace pump if it's a temp thing on the manifold?
anyone else thinking this theory?
thanks for the pics and info for fuel pump replacement.
b

 

[rockchucker]

Might be able to OHM test the Fuel Pump Motor from a different location other than pulling the Fuel Tank. Maybe Trace the Wires back to the Relay and figure out which two wires run it then OHM them to see if it is out of Spec.


Or wait till it goes out. Hopefully you have AAA or something...lol

 

[koba]

Hello ,
i have seen you own a 2wd explorer , i own one too its a 1997 sport 2wd us car
i am having a problem with the lower ball joint on passenger side
i replaced the lower ball joint on the passenger side i believe it was the stock one still
i install a mevtech 8695T this is what i got in the local parts store
i been told that this is the only part # for a lower ball joint 4x4 or2x4 explorer

the thing is that i have a little noise from there that wosnt there before i wonder if this is the right ball joint for 2wd explorer or there is a different part # for 2wd
i hope you can help me
thank you

 

[SailorKane]

More fuel issues

I have a 1997 5.0 4 door. Bad news is its been sitting for 6 years while I was out of the country. Good news is that it didn't have a lot of gas in it and I had used stabil and engine seems to run OK if I can get good gas to it. But tank is still varnished.

I replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter and pressure regulator. Been dumping a mixture of 2 gallons gas/5 oz techron into the tank, occasional sloshing for a day, and pumping it out (fuel line disconnected at the filter intake, jump the pump relay and pump out gas into bucket). The gas is still coming out very orange, indicating there is still some varnish in the tank. And some very very small metalic-like pellets of something. No rust, though. Replaced fuel filter and it was full of mud-like stuff.

I checked with local radiator places and they don't clean gas tanks anymore due to EPA regulations.

My options are:
1. continue to add my gas/techron mixture until it comes out clear, or just say bag-it at some point and try running the car. Be prepared to replace fuel filters (at $8 a crack) often in coming months.
2. pull tank and do chemical bath myself. Get some acetone or lacquer thinner. Perhaps also with a visit to the local do-it-yourself carwash and actually use hot water to finish cleaning out the tank.
3. Get a new tank. A new tank has NO fittings. Most of the tank fittings are on the removable pump plate, which I pulled once to replace the fuel pump. There are two additional ones: pressure sensor (electrical connection) and vapor return line. The pressure sensor doesn't look like it would come off the old tank easily--I looked at it when I pulled the pump. So probably easiest to get a new pressure sensor as well. The vapor return line is a hose connection and not sure how to get one on the tank either. New tanks are $230 from ebay and $270 from JC Whitney, delivered to the door. Not sure of pressure sensor and vapor fitting, but call it $300 or so.

From a cost standpoint, my gas/techron mixture is about $10 a shot. Filters are $8. And its relatively easy to do.
Pulling the tank is a pain, esp since I would have to jack the car up very high to get enough clearance to get the tank out. Not even sure there is enough vertical clearance in the garage--it'd be tight. I replaced the pump without actually removing the tank from under the car. I do have time--I have another car for wife and a motorcycle and in Florida I seldom get grounded on the bike.

I've read tons of posts here, and learned a lot. Money is certainly an issue. If I can't get the Explorer running with minimal cost, it'll probably just continue to sit. So far I have $100 in it for pump and pressure regulator, plus $12 techron (on sale) and two filters.

Anyone have opinions or experiences?

 

[ranger7ltr]

Man I wish I knew where you are located...

I didn't take into account that some areas do not let radiator shops do what they need to do in the guise of the environment...

Most yards get 75 -100 for a tank but it is going to be in the same space or worse than yours...

And the ports come out the tank by pressing down on the ports and turning counter-clockwise 90 degrees...They pull out fairly easily...And the pressure sensor is around $150 from the dealer...The vapor fitting is $65...Also from the dealer..

Cleaning the tank sounds like the way I did it.. Except I didn't use a car wash wand though...Here in Texas most car washes won't let you wash out a tank either..Or someone will call the police and I really didn't want to explain what and why I was doing what I was doing...

And the cleaning with solvent/gas might clean it but the chunks you are seeing on the inlet side of the filter came through the new pump and will evenually kill it...The strainer is just that...A strainer...It only filters out the smaller chunks...

I never tried it but there is a metal cleaner that could possibly clean the tank out and then lets you coat the tank with a liner that covers the inside of the tank after the metal prep etches it...I bought it from POR15...I am going to line my original tank since the radiator shop here cleaned it out for me...Take a look...
http://www.por15.com/SPECIAL-Sealer-Metal-Ready/productinfo/S7Q/

 

[SailorKane]

Thanks for the reply, Ranger. Especially the info on the vapor valve and pressure sensor. I'd hate another 100-200 bucks for those two items. I'm trying to get this explorer running again on the cheap. I live in Florida and my wife has a car and I have a motorcycle. I love the bike and use it as my primary transportation. But now I have some traveling to do up north in the winter and really need another car. I did some searching and found a vapor valve for about $30, aftermarket. And found a pressure sensor for Chevy for $40, but haven't found a ford one yet. If I needed those parts, hopefully I can beat the dealer prices of $60 and 150, respectively.

Some time ago, I put a new fuel (diesel) tank in my sailboat. It was a 50 gallon aluminum tank. When it was brand new, I coated the interior with a sealer, to avoid potential corrosion problems if/when I got any water in it. The sealer I used was an epoxy-based product from Holland. Apparently in the past some coal tar products had been used to seal tank interiors and this epoxy-based product replaced that. It certainly worked extremely well--no problems with it adhering to the tank and no corrosion over the last 5 years. However, the tank was new and metal was clean and I had two access ports to be able to reach all parts of the tank. The product was expensive, as I remember.

Problems are that you have to be able to reach all parts of the explorer tank easily. Does anyone know if there is a baffle in the explorer tank? This is a very long tank and would be hard to reach the ends. If I had to cut another access port, it would be better to buy a new tank.

So, the latest:
Yesterday I got fed up with adding gas/techron mixtures to the tank, sloshing and draining. It did look like the output was getting clearer, though it was still orange and cruddy. I have done this many times by now and it was beginning to feel like a treadmill. So I put a new fuel filter in, added 5 gallons of good gas with only 5 oz of techron and tried to run it. It started fine and ran beautifully for 7 miles, then same problem. Couldn't accelerate. Would stall. If I clicked the key several times, running the pump 2 seconds each time, it would pressurize the fuel system and run better for a minute or so, then again want to stall. Got to be a clogged fuel filter. Good news is that it only ran 5 miles the last time, so its better than it was.

So, I'm ready to give up on the gradual method of cleaning the tank. There are not enough fuel filters and techron in the world to accomplish it, even if I wanted to take the months necessary to do it. At $8 per filter, $10 for gas/techron for sloshing, I can see me doing this several more times. If I was guaranteed to get a working car after spending $100 sloshing, I'd do it. But I've seen posts on this forum that people have tried this method for months with continued drivability problems.

Next step is to remove the tank and look at the insides carefully. If I can reach all parts of it, there is no rust, and I can do my own chemical bath, I might consider investing in a gallon of acetone or lacquer thinner. Otherwise, its a new tank. $200-300 should land me a new tank. Anyone have good advice on where to buy a new tank?

Thanks.

 

[SailorKane]

So, if anyone is interested, I was able to pull the fuel tank today. I bought a floor jack from Harbor Freight. Nothing like having the right tools. Since I had done it before, it only took me an hour or so.
The bottom of the tank is filled with an oatmeal-like blend of rust and varnish. Inside of the tank is rusty. Long tank, small access hole, and baffles inside tank. Absolutely no good way to clean it, IMHO. And surely, the gas/techron slosh method was totally a waste of time. I would never, in many month, have gotten enough crud out of the tank to make the car drivable. Even if cleaned out, the rust makes it a waste of time.

So, I ordered a new tank for $195, no tax or shipping cost. Thanks to Ranger, I was able to pull the pressure sensor and vapor valve. I didn't run the fuel pump very long, so its fine.

Thanks for advice.

 

[rockchucker]

Good to know. ^


It would seem well worth the 200 bucks to just replace the Tank with a new one. Start Fresh and not have to worry about it.

When I pulled this one there was amazingly no detectable Oatmeal in the bottom of the tank. So she was good to go.

 

[stangladesh]

i have a 01 sport and it has done basically what you guys are describing. it will start but not crank. i swapped batteries, checked fuses, and checked the fuel pump switch and it still did not crank. i have never really noticed if the fuel pump was running or not in my vehicle. but it did seem as if it was not getting enough fuel. i tripped the fuel pump and then reset it and i did notice a difference in pressure on the pedal. are there other ways to diagnose this?

 

[SailorKane]

i have a 01 sport and it has done basically what you guys are describing. it will start but not crank. i swapped batteries, checked fuses, and checked the fuel pump switch and it still did not crank. i have never really noticed if the fuel pump was running or not in my vehicle. but it did seem as if it was not getting enough fuel. i tripped the fuel pump and then reset it and i did notice a difference in pressure on the pedal. are there other ways to diagnose this?

You mean "crank but not start"?

To check the fuel pump, note that it will run for about 2 seconds when you first turn on the key. Open the tank fill and listen carefully, as a friend turns on the key (just ON, not START). If the fuel pump isn't running, then you have a problem. Pump might be out, or relay, or inertia switch, or whatever. Easiest way to check the pump itself, IMHO, is to make up a jumper cable--about 6" long #14 wire with two spade lugs crimped on each end. Find the fuel pump relay, pull it, and use the jumper to bypass the relay (e.g. connect the jumper over the two "switch" positions of the relay. Its marked on the relay which two these are.) The pump should run.

If the pump is good: To make sure you are getting good fuel pressure, connect a pressure guage (probably $20 at harbor freight) on the schrader valve at your fuel rail. On my 1997 302 engine, its right near the intake in the middle of the engine. It has a cap on it. You should be getting decent fuel pressure, perhaps 35# or so.

In my case, I had several problems. First pump would not work at all. I replaced the pump. Second, had bad pressure at the schrader valve. I replaced the fuel pressure regulator, which is set up to increase or decrease the fuel system pressure. If it sticks open, which it did in my case, it can reduce fuel pressure in the system dramatically. Then I found crud in the tank. I detected this was a problem by disconnecting the fuel line at the fuel filter, jumping the pump relay to cause the pump to pump fuel, and noting very low output at the fuel filter. Crud in the tank was not allowing fuel to flow easily to the filter. This was intermittent as crud would jam the intake and then free up. Put bucket under the fuel filter lines when you pump the gas. So, I pulled the tank and am now awaiting a new one.

Others have mentioned cleaning the MAF and IAC sensors as well. This had no impact on mine.

Hope this helps as a starting point.


Mark.

 

[rockchucker]

First off "cranking" is when the starter turns the Engine round and round. "Starting" is when the Engine fires and is actually running.


Get a Fuel Pressure Tester. Rent, aquire...Whatever. There is what looks like a normal Tire Pressure Valve called a "Schrader Valve" on the Fuel Rail itself. Hook up the Fuel Pressure Tester to this Valve. Turn the key to the "On" position, not "Start" position just the "On" Position and check the Pressure on the Tester. If it is low then try to change your Fuel Filter first and re-test. If it is still low then you will more than likely have to change the Fuel Pump.



^ Edit....Damn beat me to it!!! lol

 

[SailorKane]

fuel tank question

I bought a new tank. The old tank has a pad of some kind glued to the saddle of the tank on the top. The new tank does not have this pad. Antone know what the pad is for and how to get one? This is not the heat shield on the front of the tank.
Thanks