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How to remove front drive shaft?

Discussion in 'Under the Hood' started by jwrezz, April 24, 2005.

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    1. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      I have a 1996. It's a single u-joint in the front (at the front diff) and I guess what is called a double cardan (2 u-joints) at the transfer case. I see 2 torx bolts on either side of the u-joint at the front. They hold straps across the u-joint and hold it to the yolk. I don't see any bolts that hold the t-case end in. Does the drive shaft just slide out from the transfer case? Has any one done this that has some pics I could see? Thanx,
       
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    3. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      im not sure what drive shafts 96 Xs came with... but if you have the 1st gen double cardan style (instead of the true CV type held in by like 9 smaller bolts that came stock on my 98), then it is held in by 4 bolts like so..

      [​IMG]
       
    4. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      oh hey ur lucky, i forgot i have my backup 1354 sitting here in my room with a severed double-cardan front drive shaft.. heres the snapshot u need, let me knof i u need any more shots while ive got this thing up here:

      [​IMG]
       
    5. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      I love this forum!!Thank you so much. I couldn't have asked for anything more! Scratch that. What kind of bolts are those? Should I replace them all w/ regular hex bolts?
       
      Last edited: April 27, 2005
    6. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      hey no prob!
       
    7. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      those bolts are 12 point bolts... what you need is a 12 point socket wrench.. im not exactly sure what size they are tho cauz im still in the process of doing my manual transfer-case swap. I wouldnt replace them with a regular hex (six-point) bolt as 12 points can usually withstand more torque. if you look at the differential end of the rear driveshaft, its the same style except those at the rear are 12-point 12mm bolts.
       
    8. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      I'd bet I aint fitting a socket on there, but I guess a 12point box wrench will do. I'm gonna go spray them all w/ deep creep so they're nice and loose by tomorrow! Thanx again.
       
    9. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      yeah a box wrench will do it, the hard part is finding the right size.. i mean like the rear one is 12 point 12mm ... most box end sets go from 13mm down to 10mm.
       
    10. Mike N.

      Mike N. New Member

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      I just pulled mine last week (96X)

      its easier to get to them if you remove the skid plate, It sticks in my mind that they were 10mm, but I am not sure...

      anyway the real pain in the ass was the front ones...I broke two torx bits trying to get them out :mad: I had to resort to breaking out a bottle of map gas and heat them up. In doing so I toasted the rubber seals on the end of the end caps and had to replace the front u-joint wich (was not bad)

      When I put it back together, I used the original bolts in the back... but put allen head bolts in the front :thumbsup:

      the front drive shaft on the 96X is the same as the one in the pics above

      Good luck!
       
    11. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      Interesting -- so it musta been in 97 when they switched to the non-double cardan type that looks like a large ball going into a socket.
       
    12. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      I'm doing this to replace the u-joints, so I guess a little heat to begin with is a good idea. Those front ones look like torx inside, but hex bolts on the out side. Are they not? Looks like I can get a standard socket on there.
       
    13. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      yeah they are hex heads with a torx in the middle, ive never used a hex on them though, ive always used the torx part (cauz personally, its easier for me to find the red torx set than fiddling around trying to find the proper hex wrench).
       
    14. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      Well, mine came right out (the torx). Actually the ones in the rear came out pretty easy too. Shaft came out w/ a bit of persuasion. My squeak isn't u-joints tho. It's the double cardan thing that is in between the 2 u-joints. Any one know about this? It looks like a ball in cup kinda thing, and that's what's giving me the squeak. Any ideas? Thanx,
       
    15. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      Brought it to a drive shaft shop. Ted, the owner, said that's definitely a type of c/v joint. There is a ball and socket joint in between the 2 u-joints w/ a rubber boot around it (mine was cracked). He said once that cracks water can get in and ruin the joint. Hopefully I caught it in time, other wise he has to cut off the end (the cup part of the joint) and install a new one. I'll get pics of the old part up here as soon as I get the drive shaft back. He showed me some exampeles of how they fail, and wear, and one that was completely destroyed.

      I'm really interested in what exactly constitutes a constant velocity joint now. If any one can help, let me know. I'm gonna go do some research. Adios,
       
    16. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      CV definition

      found this on some web site linked from a google search

      CV or constant velocity joint

      Front wheel drive cars need u-joints which not only allow up and down motion, but steering motion as well. the angle at which they turn requires a different design than the standard U-joint.

      Constant velocity, or CV joints are universal joints that are able to transfer torque at large angles efficiently. These joints transfer power very smoothly. They are comprised of four basic parts: 1. The outer section, which has grooves machined on its inner surface, 2. the bearings, which are usually in a "cage", 3. the inner ball, which has grooves on its outer surface for the bearings to ride in, and 4. a rubber boot to protect the unit from dirt and moisture.

      A common cause of CV joint failure is cracks in the CV boot. As dirt enters the CV joint, its parts grind themselves until a clicking noise is heard when turning, or until they fail completely. The boots should be replaced as soon as cracking is visible in their rubber folds.
       
    17. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      I wonder why a cv joint is even need in the front shaft then? The angle is not that great I don't think, but more importantly, the angle does not change. The front diff is rigidly mounted in between the framerails, and so is the t-case. That angle shouldn't change at all. Maybe the rear should have it, but why the front?
       
    18. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      Are you talking about this boot?
      [​IMG]

      Cauz i dont think its a CV joint thats under that boot.. whats under there is where the two drive shafts halves meet. they are both splined lengthwise so this allows the entire drive shaft to compress and decompress.. without compressing (or shortenning) the drive shaft, you should have not have been able to remove it from the vehicle.

      I wish it was lighter out, i coulda snapped you a pic of the 97 and later drive shaft.. according to my very limited knowledge, the 97s and above are the ones that utilized the true CV joint on the front driveshaft.. but double cardans are sometimes called CV because the two cardan joints do cancel each other out and the whole thing does travel at a constant angular velocity.

      here's a diagram (unreadable tho) of what a CV joint looks like from Pirate4x4:
      [​IMG]

      here's anotehr image form Meineke's website (very simplified):
      [​IMG]

      So basically its a race of bearings in a cup. The colored diagram above allows the race of bearings to move on the ball via the grooves (the red areas) ..

      read this article from Pirate4x4, i think itll answer all of your questions in life:
      http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/index.html
       
      Last edited: April 25, 2005
    19. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      Nope, that's the slip yolk (the pic you attached) the double cardan joint has a ball-in-cup joint between the 2 u-joints. It's a type of CV joint. I'll show ya some pics when I go back to the drive line shop. I think the use of 2 u-joints and a ball joint allow for more of an angle, while maintaining consistant torque transfer :. CV joint. adios
       
    20. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      Oh wow most def! please do snap some pix - i havent seen this third type of driveshaft used... was it only used for the 95-96 explorers?
       
    21. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      heres a few shots of the front drive shaft that came off of my X (1998 xlt):

      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
       
    22. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      I got my shaft back today, I'll post some pics of the part that went bad, and the new part soon. Been out fighting brush fires all day so now I'm gonna rest. Can say this after reading that article from pirate 4x4, the double cardan joint is what you need to run for high strength, high angle, joints. I'm glad I got that instead of the true CV style. I'll post some more stuff w/ pics tomorrow I guess. Thanx for all the help IZwack!
       
    23. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      Wow great. My main reason for using the double cardan joint shaft is because my manual 1354 transfer case came with a u-joint type front output. But what you said is great - and allow me to add that cardan joints are easier to service than the CV ball-in-cup system cauz most of the time, its usually just the u-joint that needs to be replaced and that usually takes just about an hour or so.
       
    24. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      Here's some pics.
      This is the assembly between the 2 ujoints. Piece at left is welded to the drive shaft. Note: ujoint installed in this pic.

      [​IMG]

      Here's a close up of the centering stud and shaft end yolk.
      [​IMG]

      The shaft in the above pic rides in this hole in this ball, it's packed w/ needle or ball bearings (cant remember which) and grease. When damage occurs, it's usually the bearings, but if you wait too long, the shaft or ball will start to wear. In worse case, they have to weld on a new yolk w/ centering shaft on the end of your drive shaft. I was lucky, that part was good, only need a new ball w/ new bearings, marine grease was used all around.
      [​IMG]

      The ball is in upside down in this pic, but this is what happens when the boot that surrounds the whole thing leaks and crap gets in there. The entire socket is exploded in this pic.
      [​IMG]

      Here is a pic of the ball that was removed from mine. Ted had to weld a piece of scrap metal into the hole in order to pull it out, it's pressed into the socket.
      [​IMG]

      Total cost for 3 ujoints, installed, and the new ball section:$166

      Here are some pics of the entire repaired part:

      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
       
    25. SeekerFor

      SeekerFor New Member

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      Driveshaft

      Where do I see the pics you are referring to?
      I do not see any links in your posts.
       
    26. jwrezz

      jwrezz Elite Snow Shoveler Elite Explorer

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      The pics in the post right above yours display fine on my end. The other pics near the top of the thread seem to have disappeared. No explanation tho. Sorry.
       

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