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Jefe's 700R4 swap

Discussion in 'Offroad Projects' started by Jefe, August 30, 2004.

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    1. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      I'll also update on my CEL situation. I found a computer for a 2000 V6 OHV w/ manual trans, so that I don't end up with the Trans control throwing codes. However I forgot about the PATS system, so while I don't get codes thrown in KOEO, I can't start it either. :rolleyes: I'll have to get someone that has a PATS programmer set my keys as the master keys in the PCM, or get another computer from a 97 and see if it will work with the 2000 harness.

      EDIT:
      And fuel mileage: My highway mileage has gone up about 1mpg, but my city mileage has gone down ~4mpg.
       
      Last edited: October 20, 2004
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    3. Jeeps&Fords

      Jeeps&Fords Member

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      Check the forums over at the Bowtie Overdrives site - that topic has been covered. There are 4 pins in the connector on the trans - one is not used, one is a ground, one will lock 3/4 and the other will lock 2.

      Cool swap, BTW. :thumbsup:
       
    4. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      Sorry, I didn't word that well. I know about how the converter lockup works, and its working great. Thanks though. :)

      I was refering to the fact that my 5R (and every other ford I've driven), when you manually shift it to 2nd gear on the column, the truck will start in 2nd gear and stay in 2nd until you tell it otherwise. My 700R4 still starts in 1st gear when I have the selector in 2nd.
       
    5. Yomie

      Yomie Well-Known Member

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      All of our work trucks are Chevys, some 1/2 ton some 1 ton, reguardless, every single one starts in 1st when the selector is in 2nd, i think it may be a chevy thing.

      Hopefully you may find a way around this, and thanks for the writeup and pics Jefe, i may be doing this soon
       
    6. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      Thats kinda what I figured. Only Chevy I've ever driven was a manual though.

      Thanks
       
    7. Jeeps&Fords

      Jeeps&Fords Member

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      Jefe - my mistake. That is a design issue with the GM transmissions.
       
    8. Ronin8002

      Ronin8002 Well-Known Member

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      Jefe, I looked on your website and noticed that you were attempting to install a new, deeper tranny fluid pan and you mentioned in one of the captions that it didn't fit. Did you ever get it to work properly?

      Also, I was curious as to how you have your cooling system for the trans set up. Right now I am running the fluid through the radiator cooler, through a huge Permacool tube and fin type cooler in front of the radiator (no fan), and then back into the trans.

      I will get up to 180 on a 70 degree day on the highway, but when I took it on the beach and was going slow I was over 200. Part of this I can attribute to my cats being so close to the pan (which I've wrapped with header wrap until my new exhaust system relocates the cats further to the rear). I have been thinking about either adding a fan to my aux cooler or switching to a stacked plate type cooler with a fan (I've been told the stacked plate type cool more effectively).

      James
       
    9. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      The problem with the deep PML pan is that it would physically fit on the transmission, but because the valve body hangs down below the mounting surface I can't get the pan on to the transmission w/o unbolting my SAS crossmember. PML has another pan that is shallower to the rear, which should work, but I never traded it in. :rolleyes:

      My cooling goes from trans, through radiator, to 12x14" HD Hayden trans cooler (staked plate design) in front of radiator, no fan, and back to trans. My cat is also inches from the pan.
       
    10. xmodster3o3

      xmodster3o3 Active Member

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      Ok jefe so tell us how much did this all cost, I really want to do this and already got the trans I need, got it for free. But I just need to know about how much it's going to run me so I can start saving. Thanks.
       
    11. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      If you've got a complete transmission, then you'll need the AA Adapters, install the AA output shaft, a shifter, the TV linkage from Bowtie, and some misc parts (dip stick, etc).
       
    12. Dignan

      Dignan Active Member

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      Молодец ты. У тебя крутая тачка.
       
    13. Hokie

      Hokie Hokius Maximus

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      Crap, so the computer can't be reprogramed to think that the 5R is still there? (That means I'd have to do a complete motor/tranny/pcm/pats swap from an '01+ Ranger to get a manual behind my SOHC)
       
    14. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      Whoa there. . its not that difficult. I just tried swaping out pcm's, and you'd have to swap out the PATS module from the same vehicle (or convince Ford to reprogram the PCM/PATS to work together) which is why it didn't work. I would think you could get a pre-PATS '97 PCM to work. OR you can get a chip/tuner to make your PCM think it is a manual, which is what I'm doing. I had Apten burn me a chip and it successfullly convinced my PCM that it was a manual (and no CEL codes) but they screwed up elsewhere. So I am now having Doug (Bama chips) program a tuner for me. We'll see how that works.
       

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    15. Hokie

      Hokie Hokius Maximus

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      Hmm.. the problem with my truck is that there were no SOHC Explorers offered with a manual tranny until '01 (when they started putting them in Rangers) so I can't use a different PCM. Maybe Bama works would be the ticket... I've already found a few wrecked SOHC Rangers I could pull the tranny from
       
    16. Texan01

      Texan01 Active Member

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      all GM RWD trannys and I think all FWD trannys do a 1-2 shift in manual 2nd. Chrysler RWD (A904/998/and OD variants) do the same thing. Ford is the only one of the big 3 that does the 2nd gear start. Some GM cars can start in second but it's a computer controlled thing. so you'd have to wire up some switch.
       
    17. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      thats just dumb, irf I want to start in 2 I expect it to start in 2 :)

      Sounds Good Jefe, hopefully the Pats wont be a huge mess....I am lucky my 97 5.0L is jsut before the PATs otherwise I would have to re-flash or find an older PCM..

      PATS= PITA
       
    18. DB_1

      DB_1 Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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      I really hate PATS too, every once and a great while it will go off for no reason when I didn't even set it. So I always have to carry to dumb key fob with me just in case.
      So you can either re-flash or get a new chip burned to get rid of it?

      Sorry to get off on a tangent Jefe ;)
       
    19. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      whats a the FOB? Sorry never had pats. :)
      I believe you can have the PCM re-flashed to remove or ignore the PATS system.
      I also would like to see the PATS system wiring because the PCM is so simple, usually all it takes is a - signal to it to make it think the PATS module accepts the key, you know what I mean?
      The PCM probably has two wires for PATS or something simple and it may be easy to fool the PCM, but I have not worked with the PATS wiring yet, thank goodness.
      I know the PATS system includes the key/and or key switch, the PATS module and the circuit in the PCM.
      I wonder if Mustang guys have figured this out yet.....
       
    20. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      Well since you asked Jamie, and since I've done my research here:
      This is for PATS II. PATS I ('97) is more simple.

      The PATS module sits on the data transmission lines (sorry can't think of what they call it) that come out to the OBDII port (as do a few other modules). So the PATS module and PCM communicate to each other via a serial link. In order for them to talk to each other they have to have exchanged ID's with each other back when they were programmed. In KOEO PATS and PCM exchange info to check ID's with each other. If they don't match both modules throw codes PCM is a hidden code, PATS flashes the Theft light). Assuming all communication is good, when you go to start up the car the PATS module checks the key transponder and communicates to the PCM whether the key checks out or not.

      The PATS module can be programmed with the PCM ID by a locksmith with the proper equipment (as well as clear old keys or program in new keys) ($1,000 equipment). It can also be done with the proper sequence of key on, key off, pat your head, rub your belly sequence.

      The PCM is a little harder. When a PCM is new (never been used) from what I can tell, the first PATS module it communicates with becomes the ID it stores. That way if your PCM dies, it can be replaced w/o the help of a Ford dealer with their $3,000+ progammers. If you put in a tuner chip programmed correctly before the PCM has this ID, then you can disable PATS for good. After the PCM has an ID, it is a bit more difficult. It seems that Ford is able to reprogram the PCM to accept another PATS module, but I never got this confirmed.

      I tried to get Ford to put in a used manual computer (even offered to pay for a new one) and have them program it so it worked with my truck, but they declined saying they can't change to a different PCM from stock for emissions reasons.

      Now I have thought about using my OBDII scanner hardware and programming some software to 'log onto' the cars serial link and monitor what gets transfered back and forth between PCM and PATS, and even researching what strings of code need to be sent to PCM or PATS to reprogram them correctly. But that would be a lot of work just to get my car to run with a manual computer.

      In other words, this system is setup very well to prevent theft. And this is coming from a programmer/engineer ;) Now there are ways to do it, but I won't get into that here for obvious reasons.

      BTW Dave, PATS is completely separate from the factory keyless entry / alarm stuff.
       
      Last edited: February 18, 2005
    21. DB_1

      DB_1 Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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      So can the keyless entry/alarm be disabled? After that last reply, a simple yes or no answer or monkey sign langauge will do :p lol
       
    22. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      I see a serial link.....

      So easiest way to do conversion is to get the module, cable, and key from the donor.
       
    23. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      you a little :confused: ?

      :D

      I never had the alarm, but I assume its part of the keyless entry module, and I'd tell you where it is, but I don't know on the Ranger :p Just unplug it if you don't use keyless entry anymore.

      I only had the 'panic' button on my keyless entry, and I just ripped that particular button off the key fob, since I hated having it in my pocket and accidentally pushing it. Or disconnecting sway bars at midnight at truckhaven and having it go off and waking up the rest of camp. :eek:
       
      Last edited: February 18, 2005
    24. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      If the receiving vehicle is already PATS equiped then you need the PCM and PATS module from the donor. And then pay a locksmith to program your keys into the new PATS module. Othwise you'd have to rekey your truck or pull the transponder from the donor keys and your keys.
      For a vehicle that doesn't have PATS get a new PCM and have PATS disabled. Or else you mine as well get the whole donor cause you're going to need harnesses behind the dash, ignition, keys, OBDII port, PATS, PCM, and whatever else you need that you needed the PCM for (engine, trans, etc).
       
    25. DB_1

      DB_1 Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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      Thanks Jefe, i'll try ant hunt down that module.

      410, keyfob= keyless entry transmitter or black thingy with buttons on it that goes on your keychain :p
       
    26. Offroadexplo

      Offroadexplo New Member

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      could a local transmission shop do this conversion to my 92 sport manual trans?? i dont want manual anymore not in michigan way to much traffic....Thanks Matt
       

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