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Jefe's 700R4 swap

Discussion in 'Offroad Projects' started by Jefe, August 30, 2004.

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    1. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      Mechanically it is not hard to install. AA and Bowtie have it all figured out for you. Electrically it shouldn't be hard for you since you're currently manual, and 1st gen, all you'll have to track down is the reverse (on transmission) and neutral (clutch pedal switch) circuits.
       
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    3. Offroadexplo

      Offroadexplo New Member

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      alright another question is could you list all the parts i need everythign from start to end just the stuff i need to buy not tools or anything and about howmuch itll run me thanks i appreciate it a lot thanks again..... Matt
       
    4. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      I listed everything right there except for the shifter. I used a B&M Hammer shifter, but any shifter thats capable of shifting the 700R4 can be used. The part numbers for the AA parts are also listed earlier in this thread.
       
    5. Offroadexplo

      Offroadexplo New Member

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      thanks for everything now i need to wait for some money i really need to swap trans's cause this stock one just cant handle my abuse lol
       
    6. RockRanger

      RockRanger Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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      So did you ever get it smogged jeff? What did the smog guys say about the modified Y pipe?
       
      Last edited: March 16, 2005
    7. fixer

      fixer Active Member

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      any chance the factory shifter on the column of my Ranger will work?
       
    8. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      It passed! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
      The only thing the guy was looking at under the truck was the suspension :D


      I know someone (mrboyle?) got the factory column shifter to work, but I don't think he kept it that way. Also, it was a 1st gen that has positions for 4 gears (OD, D, 2, 1) where 95+ only have 3 (D, 2, 1).
       
    9. RockRanger

      RockRanger Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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      congrats. :thumbsup: then hopefully the Ypipe I have to build with the Np435 will be fine to. :bounce:
       
    10. mrboyle

      mrboyle I Drive By Brail Moderator Emeritus

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      Yes and no (mostly no)! I was able to get the factory shifter to work by modifying the stock mounting bracket, but in order to get the geometry correct for the shifter to work smoothly the bracket has to hang down so low that I was afraid I'd rip it off. The other problem is you will have no provision for a netural saftey or back up light switch. Ford put the switch that controls these in the tranny and GM uses a switch mounted to the bottom of the steering column. I'm not saying that the shifter and switches can't be made to work, its just way more involved than its worth.
       
    11. turbowsr

      turbowsr New Member

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      Jefe,
      I AM doing this conversion on my '97 Aerostar. Tired of trying to find 5R parts, etc. 700r4's are everywhere. I am originally a Chevy guy. I just recently been getting into Fords.
      Yes it's true, GM does not make an auto tranny (to my knowledge) that starts in 2nd. Wish they did, makes it nice on slick roads.
      I am also going to document my progress. I have also found an adapter for about $67 to mount a V8 GM tranny to V6/60 engine. With this one and the Advanced Adapters adapter, one could put in a TH350, TH400, TH200-4r, or V8 TH700-r4. I have read that the V8 Bellhousing won't fit in an Explorer, because of clearance problems.
      Well being a GM guy, I have a TH350 setting here, so I can mock it up and see how it clears in the Aerostar.
      The one question I have for you is about the speedo. Since the 5R uses electric, how did you get this to work? or did you?
      Jegs and Summit carry aftermarket electric speedo's I may go to, just wanted to check your success.

      Thank you
      Turbowsr
       
    12. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      In 98 they moved the VSS on the explorer from the transmission back to the rear diff (doubling as the ABS sensor) so I didn't have to mess with it at all.
       
    13. turbowsr

      turbowsr New Member

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      Thanks Jefe,

      You got me thinking. When I dissassembled my 5R, I did not remove a VSS. So I got out my Chiltons, and it said it was in the tail shaft. I looked, nope, just a solid place that could be opened to accept the VSS. The only plugs on the tranny are the shaft speed sensors. The '97 Aerostar has rear ABS, so I am assuming that it also has the VSS in the rear diff.
      Thanks for the information. This will help out alot. Now I am off to get my 700-R4.
      Where is the least expensive place to get the Advance Adapter. I found it for $350 but cannot find the site again. $399 is the price I have found most often.
       
    14. turbowsr

      turbowsr New Member

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      Ok Jefe and other explorer enthusiasts. Here is something I see from Jefe's picture (so different years may differ from his).

      1) The front O2 sensor is just after the factory header on Jefe's, my '97 Aerostars is after the "Y" pipe combines on the passenger side.

      2)Jefe's front Cadillytic (not Cadillac :p ) is before the "Y", Mine are inline after the "Y" and about 12 inches apart and 6 inches from the "Y". Since they are both on the passenger side, they are not much in the way.

      3)My driver's side downpipe comes down then turns toward the drivers side then makes about a 270 degree turn toward the passenger side. Yes it sound weird, but this leaves lots of clearance on the drivers side for a larger tranny. Should be no need for the Advance Adapters pipe extension here.

      4)This is the bad part of my engine, and the good of the Explorer's, my oil filter extension makes the oil filter point down and toward the rear. Just barely clearing the 5R's bellhousing, anything bigger contacts it. Looking at Jefe's pic's, it looks as though the Explorer's filter points straight down, not even near the tranny. I am going to go remote filter onto the frame, and away from any clearance problems. It's already too hard to get to now, and when filter is removed for replacement leaks oil into the aluminum shields on the exhaust. This traps the oil, may cause a fire hazard, I don't care for this setup.

      5)My front O2 sensor points toward the midline of the vehicle, and will be in the way of any tranny larger than the 5R, which does not clear during removal. Crossed my fingers during removal that I did not pinch off wires. This will have to be placed 90 degree's toward the passenger side. This would make it clear just about everything. What the HE!! was Ford thinking hear (you also needed 2 O2 sensors when we replaced your tranny((you should always replace both O2's at the same time, otherwise you confuse your computer)))

      Why do I tell you all this. Well seems to me that while doing the 700r4 upgrade, one COULD use the "Y" pipe/converter section from a 4.0l Aerostar. Whose worried about emissions laws at this point :)
      I don't know myself how this would effect the computer by placing the O2 and first Converter about 20 inches downstream, and the first O2 sensor at the "Y" where it gets both sides of the engine, instead of just the drivers side. Would the O2 react outside the computers perameters?
      Both converters, with this setup, would work on both exhaust at the same time, instead of one on the drivers and one on both sides. (that don't make sense to me). My '91 Crown Vic had one converter at the header connection on each side, then a second set about 20 inches downstream from there on each side, then to a "Y" pipe to a single exhaust. Made it easier to install duals, without modifying the converters.

      I plan on putting my modifications of my '97 Aerostar on my website (www.turbowsr.com) It will be aerostar.turbowsr.com when set up. So if interested, check in now and then to see. I plan on being finished within 2 months. I can only work on this on the weekends, not much time during the week. I will post some pics soon showing the difference's I was talking about.

      If Jefe allows me to use some of his pics on my website for comparison purposes. Jefe? full credits will be given where due.

      I also started the preliminaries for building an adapter for a Ford 4.0l to GM V8 tranny. I am using my tranny as a guide. It is a GM multicase. In GM world there were the Chevy trannys and there were the BOP trannys. BOP means Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac. So you had trannys that would be Chevy bolt pattern, the BOP pattern, and the multicase that used both patterns. Then of course there is the 4 cyl/60 degree V6 pattern used in Advance Adapters, which Jefe used. NO 700R4 EVER used the BOP pattern as far as I know. This transmission was introduces after GM made BOP engines no longer and everyone went to the Chevy engine. BUT the 3.8 (the one FORD COPIED from GM) is a Buick engine, so maybe there ARE a few 700R4's with the BOP pattern. This gives the GM tranny only three main patterns V6/60, Chevy V8, BOP V6/V8.
      By using the multicase design would allow the use of ANY RWD GM tranny. Personally I have used GM trannys without fluid/filter changers well over 100,000 miles. And many other GM owners can verify this. So a well taken care of, mildly abused, adiquitly(I am not a good speller, so forgive me on my spelling, please) maintained GM tranny should last about 200,000 to 300,000 miles before ANY rebuilds. So looking at the cost of a 4RLD,4RxxE, or 5R55E rebuild and replacment several times during the life of the vehicle before it is so far falling apart that it is worthless, will more than be saved by using the Advance Adapter and quality rebuilt GM tranny.
      Take the $400 for the adapter, $1500 for tranny, then figure $800 for a Ford rebuilt tranny each by 2(?) per 100,000 miles added. 1600{(2x800)} x 3 = $4800 in Ford tranny at 300,000 miles vs about $2000 on the conversion.
      Plus look for tranny parts for a GM product vs ANY other. They are everywhere and cheap. Plus GM used same parts accross many product lines. Very few "one offs" like Ford.

      OK done with my rant. Don't get me wrong, I have loved my Fords (76 Pinto, 90 T-Bird, 91 Crown Vic, 84 Capri,97 Aerostar, getting a 90 Ranger XLT next month) just as much as my GM vehicles. My Grandfather worked 30 years at a GM plant, so I saw lots of them around.

      So with research on this site (very informative for small chasis ford trucks), help from everyone here, and my experimentation, this could be a very exciting swap/conversion/Upgrade.

      Jefe, I found a site talking about the bell housing and the different sized starter holes. And you were correct, it is a date thing. According to the site, if you were to go to Ford now and order a bellhousing, you would get the one you had. Not the older style. For that you have to go grave digging. I would just get the new bellhousing and the starter to go along with it. NO I WOULDN"T, I would (AM) going the 700R4 route.

      More to come
       

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    15. turbowsr

      turbowsr New Member

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      Sorry that was so long, I didn't realize it until I posted. I just can never quit talking (typing)
       
    16. turbowsr

      turbowsr New Member

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      The transmission is in. Just have to finish up on cooling lines and the tranny mount. For my application, I had a few driveshafts laying around from some GM cars. I found one, I believe, to be from a 79 Chevy Impala. I needed about 3" more (ON THE DRIVESHAFT) ;) My concerns now are on the ECU. I have the OBD-II. Since yours is newer than 1996 (first year of OBD-ll), you would have the same problems I am looking to correct. Did the Bama chip work? I emailed them today. How does the tranny run down the road, how about the engine?
      I am currently looking into fabricating an adapter so that the Ford transmission range sensor can be used.
      Also a module to act as a translator to the ECM for the transmission, maybe even to allow the usage of a 4L60E transmission. I know this would not be needed with a "(Bama) Chip".
      Another option could be to get a pre-OBD-ll ECM('96+), used with the A4LD. Since it only uses the Torque Converter Lockup and Overdrive lockup. Of course this could need a complete engine wire harness swap.
      I am currently building my website of this build. And looking up all this information.
       
    17. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      My 700R4 just started acting up. . .no 3rd gear and very mushy shifts. :(
      And I'm going out of town for a week so I'll have to wait to diagnose it.
       
    18. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      At the prices that fairly stock 700R4s are being sold at (compared to say 5r55s), you could put a backup 700r4 somewhere on ur X ready to be popped in! ;)
       
    19. appx91

      appx91 Active Member

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      I am about to do this swap on my 91' explorer. What computer problems might i run into? Jefe you got the stage 2 kit correct? Thanks in advance.
       
    20. Stic-o

      Stic-o Elite Movie Star

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      Maybe you got some water in it from azusa :rolleyes:
       
    21. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      LOL I've already got too many spare parts on my truck as is. Now a spare trans at home might not be such a bad idea. ;)

      On a 91 you should not have any problems. Well, maybe the computer will tell you that the TC lockup solenoid is not there, but I think thats it. And yes, it was a stage 2.

      Unfortunatly I'm thinking that is it. :( Though the fluid looks fine on the dipstick, and is at the correct level so who knows.
       
    22. Stic-o

      Stic-o Elite Movie Star

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      I was thinking I would have the problem, sence I know the water was right below my doors :( With the BL that means, alot was in the water. Maybe I should check my fluid too. :rolleyes:

      Let me know what you find
       
    23. Ronin8002

      Ronin8002 Well-Known Member

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      On my 91 I had absolutely no computer problems at all. It was like the computer never even knew the difference.


      On a side note, is anyone with the 700r4 tired of the vibration and buzzing noise coming from their shifter? My Lokar shifter conducts all of the tranny sound into the inside of the truck....harmless, but it's done this since I did the swap and it's starting to get under my skin. Anyone elses do this and any ideas on how to insulate the shifter to stop it?
       
    24. IZwack

      IZwack Moderator Emeritus

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      Cheaper 4.0->700R4 adapter

      Dunno if this has been posted before but just in case.. for anyone considering doing the 700R4 swap:

      I was browsing the web and ran into this 4.0L to 700r4 adapter thats about 50 dollars cheaper than the Advanced Adapter one:

      http://www.transmissionhead.com/

      Once you're at that page, do a browser search (CONTROL + F) for 'explorer' and the adapter should be the first thing you find.

      The 700r4 to transfer-case adapter is also about 50 dollars cheaper so I guess that'd save you about 90-100 dollars if you bought both.
       
    25. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      Don't use the Lokar shifter. :p
      I did look at it, and the lack of shifter cable is nice, but I didn't like anything else about it, so I went with the B&M shifter.
       
    26. appx91

      appx91 Active Member

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