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Jefe's 700R4 swap

Discussion in 'Offroad Projects' started by Jefe, August 30, 2004.

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    1. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      One thing I did want to cover now that I've had to deal with it again filling the transmission. The Dipstick. I started with a stock-like dipstick that Bowtie provided. It was a pretty decent shape to fit along the firewall, but it was about 4-6" short and hard to reach with the height of my truck. I then decided to go with the Lokar dipstick that AA recommends. It sounded great with a braided stainless steel body so that it contours where you want it and a nice billet aluminum handle. Well, its also a hair too short (maybe 2-3"). It ended up right at the height of the AC box and just under the PCM which makes it a pain to fill the transmission from there. I end up pulling the whole dipstick assembly from the transmission and snaking a funnel in just above the frame to fill. The other thing that I don't like about the lokar is the stick itself. Its a soft plastic that is coated with teflon or something. Great for sliping it in and out, but the ATF doesn't coat it very well so its hard to read. Plus the aluminum handle gets VERY hot after driving a bit making it impossible to hold.
      Not sure if Lokar makes a longer dipstick, or a V8 dipstick from some truck would work? I imagine a dipstick from a car would be too short again.
       
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    3. appx91

      appx91 Active Member

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      Well guys....I have decided to scrap the new tranny....The explorer is going to become an all out rock crawler with no street time. I am getting a HEEP for a dd. The explorer is going to get a full on makeover.
       
    4. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      :confused:
       
    5. appx91

      appx91 Active Member

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      I am going to put a 700r4 in sometime but it just when i get the time with cutting the body up and getting everything mocked up! I know its a let down going with a heep as a DD but i have to do what i can afford and what gets the mpg.
       
    6. mechanic021

      mechanic021 Active Member

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      Hey jefe you might want to look into maybe a fullsize truck dipstick tube or maybe a 4 cylinder s-10 dipstick tube out of a newer s-10. The 4 cylinder dispstick tubes I have seen at work come up right in on the side of the motor on the passenger side right about in the middle of the motor. OR you could always get a full size chevy van dipstick tube and cut it down. Most are like 5 feet long but nothing some cutting couldnt fix.
       
    7. Diff Whack Daddy

      Diff Whack Daddy And the Roll Over Posse! Under the Hood Moderator Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I have the same Lokar dipstick and maybe beacause it's a 1st gen, but it is mounted to my coil pack and sits between the coil pack and the firewall. I agree it's hard to read, but I haven't had the filling issues you describe as I have a little aluminum adapter that has a short 3 inch hose on it that a funnel fits into perfectly and the aluminum piece sits in the dipstick tube. I am not sure where it came from, but it is a handy little piece to keepin the glove box.
       
    8. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      Doh, thanks for reminding me. The Lokar comes with that funnel adapter. I wonder where mine is.
       
    9. Diff Whack Daddy

      Diff Whack Daddy And the Roll Over Posse! Under the Hood Moderator Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      LOL:D:D
       
    10. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      Lokar makes longer ones too.

      the stock 5.0L dipstick fits better and is easier to read than any I have had previous.
       
    11. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I lost that little adapter even before I filled the transmission for the first time. I have a funnel that seems to seal well so I don't loose much when filling, but it does fill slowly through the lokar tube.

      On our fist gen the top of the dipstick tube is about even with the coilpack and I have it screwed to the body. I did have to fix the tube already. When dropping the first transmission (broke the input drum) I forgot to disconnect the tube from the transmission before I lowered it some.. It pulled the tube (braided part) out of the piece that goes into the transmission. I slipped it back on and use a hose clamp to keep it together..

      I do agreee, it is very hard to read the dip-stick. It time to change the fuild again (been 10k since I put this last one in) and I'll see if I can modify the dipstick slightly to make it easier to read.
       
    12. turbowsr

      turbowsr New Member

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      Finally got it going.

      I finally got my Aerostar going.
      I had to use a remote oil filer because on the A-star there is no room between the exhaust manifold and the AA adapter plate.
      I have put only about 100 miles on it. Seems to be running well.
      I also got the factory(FORD) column shifter to work, as well as the factory neutral safety switch. Mounted the cable using factory brace mounted to 700r4. Used the factory lever, and it seems the spacing between all gears is the same for the 5R55E and 700r4, the shifter shifts into the correct gear. I now only have to put in a torque converter lockup. Will be done with that soon.
      I used a transmission from Mad Dog Transmissions (www.maddogtransmissions.com). Buy one from eBay for a lot less than from his web site. I had trouble with them sending me the bigger 700r4 and torque converter, but they replaced and cross-shipped the correct one. Customer service is the best I have seen in a while, so I highly recommend them. Just ask for the "Baby 700". Thats what they refer to it as.
      Since this is 2WD, I had to fab a driveline. Well luckly, Jeep used many parts from GM and Ford while AMC owned them. So I went to O'Reilly's and bought a U-Joint to connect a Chevy driveline to Ford. I used a driveline from a 1979 Chevy Impala (I believe, it was sitting around, and thats what I believe I took it from, that or a 1985 Chevy El Camino). I used the driveline because it was the correct length, used the U-joint to connect the driveline to the Ford rear yoke. I was asked to clean out used vehicles at work, while doing so there was a GMC mini-bus that had an engine fire. I removed the driveline to tow it home. This driveline looks like it would work also. It is all aluminum like originally under the A-star. The one I used was steal.
      I also had to remove the Catalytic converters because the engine-transmission sit to the passengers side, and the 700r4 is wider to the passenger side. Ford put both converters over there one before, one after the transmission cross member. Since there was not room, I removed them and installed a straight pipe next to the transmission(before cross-member) and a Cherry Bomb glass pack after the cross-member. The glass pack quits down the exhaust, and adds a small roar under WOT, not much tho.
      I used the Lokar tranny dipstick, also. BUT for filling the tranny, I used an extra long funnel, and went thru the doghouse inside the van. That is also where I have to check the fluid. I need a tube about 4-5ft long for the van.
      I also had to modify my throttle linkage to accept the Bowtie TV kit. Not as bolt on as they say. They used a linkage that is skinnier than mine.
      I also installed an inline transmission filter that uses the same as the Ford oil filter, so I only need to buy one type.
      Altogether I put in ~$2000. Ford quoted me $2300 just for the 5R55E, not installed.
      I have 3.55 gears in the rear, and the tranny go together well. Great acceleration, plenty of throttle left at 85mph. I have not topped it out yet, but I prefer the gear ratio's of the 700r4 over the 5R55E. Seems to go with the engine well.
      I will be installing 3.31 (or 3.27 cant remember which I bought) gears later. I don't believe I will notice much difference on acceleration, or pulling.
      Thank you everyone for this idea.
      My next project is to install a brazilian 2.8L 4 cyl POWERSTROKE diesel. These are used in South America in Ford Rangers and in Land Rovers. It has 135 hp@ and 277 ft/lb torque @1400rpm and gets about 30mpg. Supposed to go 180k Miles before major work. Just oil changes till then. With some work, the hp and torque should be able to be brought up. Right now, they are close to the Ford 4.0L. Look at what Banks is pulling out of diesels.

      I will have pictures and my website up, hopefully, by Halloween.
       
    13. turbowsr

      turbowsr New Member

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      700r4 troubles

      My transmission is having weird problems now. I believe to be related to the "shift kit" Mad-Dog installed.

      Anyhow I have concerns about what we are getting from these places. Since the transmission we are getting comes from small Chevy V6's, the 3.4L being the most powerful, they are not built strong enough for the 4.0L.
      IF!! these companies are not installing a full V8 package within them, we are not getting full clutch packs. The 700r4 is notorious for buring the 2-4 band and the 3-4 clutch pack. Mostly from too much torque at too low a gear ratio and not enough fluid pressure.

      By V8 package, I am referring to hard parts. The Input Drum and Reverse drum, I have been told, are shorter allowing the use of FEWER clutches. And since these builders are not used to building for the purpose of swapping into a more powerful V6, I don't believe they are using V8 parts.

      A 700r4 from behind a 305 or 350 gutted and installed into the V6/60 case should work just fine with nothing to fear. The from there adjusted for our likes and needs, such as "shift kits", better bands and clutches, etc.

      The Ford 4.0L is almost as powerful as a Chevy 305 (non-computer). The Chevy 3.4L is just a little more than the Ford 3.0L in power, but nowhere near the torque of the Ford 4.0L.

      Number 1 killer of all Chevy 700r4 and 200-4r transmissions is TV adjustment. So this issue needs to be addressed. Bowtie has tried, but I had to modify my linkage just as Jefe did, and mine is in an older '97 model. Also the threads stripped out on the adapter to the throttle. So I had to fix that also. The adapter needs to be made from stronger material than the screws, or some type of nut needs to be installed, tho that causes a clearance issue.

      IF!! a 700r4/V6/60 built to V8 spec's, even factory, and a correct TV adapter and setup are installed, there should be ZERO problems for over 150,000 miles.
      I have seen these transmissions in trucks with that many miles without fluid changes or coolers installed. If cared for properly, our trucks would rust out first.

      I have an extra 700r4/V6/60 and dissected it. I was amazed at the size of the internal components. They are 3-4 times LARGER than the A4LD/4R44E/5R55E hard parts. My 5R looks miniature. THAT OUGHT TO TELL US SOMETHING.

      Also, I am looking into putting in a new 2005 4.0L SOHC. 210HP/245tq.

      Anyone buying a 700r4/V6/60 to put into their Ford, MAKE SURE YOUR SUPPLIER UNDERSTANDS THAT YOU NEED THE V8 PARTS INSTALLED!!!!
       
    14. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      From what I understand Bowtie builds the V6 up just like the V8 with the exception of the input drum, which has to be a V6 part to mate with the V6 torque converter.

      Also, I think the V6 3.4L uses the V8 case. :confused:
       

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    15. turbowsr

      turbowsr New Member

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      Only the 4.3L V6 (which is what you might be thinking) uses the V8. This engine is a 350 with 2 cylinders removed. The 3.4L V6 is a version of the early Chevy 2.8L. Only place to find the RWD 3.4L is in the F-Body of the Firebird and Camaro. The RWD 2.8L was found in S-10/15, Jimmy and S-10 Blazer, and F-Bodies. Bore it out you have the 3.1L, stroke it out and you have the 3.4L.
      That is good Bowtie uses the V8 parts.
      I didn't think about it and will have to research more to confirm the input drum being different for the torque converter. It could be that only a 27 spline version is for V6 converter versus the 30 spline for V8 converter.
      I counted splines on my 1990 700r4/V6/60 and it does have 27 splines. It was the '82-'84 early 700's that used the 27 spline for V8, it was changed to 30 in '85.
      So an input drum from 82'-84' V8 may work, but also hard to find. Also there may have been changes that would not allow this to happen.
      I will find out.
      Thanks for the info Jefe. Maybe Bowtie IS the place to go. :)
       
    16. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      3.4, 4.3 . . :confused: ;)

      As for the input drum, perhaps the V6 pump is also different making for a different input drum? All I do know is that my trans has a V6 input drum.
       
    17. turbowsr

      turbowsr New Member

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      I looked up the part numbers. 82'-84' uses a 27 spline small bore pump. 84'-86' Uses a 30 spline large bore. 87'-up uses 30 spline large bore w/Aux valve feed tube (for 87'-up trannies with auxiliary valve bodies). 87'-up are the trannies needed, newer=better. I have an 85' because my builder is no good. No GOOD rebuilder will use a core older than 87'.
      Looking up the input drum, the 27 spline V6 is 53mm shorter. Otherwise the input drum matches the same year pump.
      An early 27 spline V8 is the same length as the later 30 spline, but the pumps differ.
      So this limits the 3-4 clutch pack size, which limits the amount of stress that used in overdrive. No towing, or using OD while racing.
      OR a machine shop could press in a 27 spline into a V8 drum.
       
    18. Denis Clark

      Denis Clark New Member

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      rusty cdn.

      Just read your swap to a 700(new member!). I like the 700r4 idea but wondered about the speedo cable.Is the hook-up the same as the ford.
       
    19. Jefe

      Jefe Well-Known Member

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      For a pre '98 4wd the speedo is in the transfercase which doesn't change. If you have a 2wd you'd have to figure out how to adapt the chevy speedo pickup to the ford.
       
    20. Denis Clark

      Denis Clark New Member

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      95,4.0,2wd,4 dooor.What I have is a wore out,tired and average suv.I've taken it off the road for now. I have serious thoughts about installing a new V-8 and trans.(carb.) with. 5-6 inches of lift.The motor can be anything as I rebuild marine motors for a living so selecting and playing with the engine is easy and cheap for me.Why I asked about the 700 was because we do have a ton of chev. engine parts in stock as well have 2 complete 302(used) motors out back.I pull boats up boat ramps alot and would like a good low gear but want to use it for a daily driver.Has to be automatic because of my bad knee.
       
    21. Milkman

      Milkman New Member

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      I got a question

      I put in a new stereo and now my 4x4 push button doesn't work. How can I fix that. I didn't use an adaptor either.
       
    22. SkanlaxJMO

      SkanlaxJMO Well-Known Member

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      That doesnt have anything to do with this thread...this thread is about swapping in a 700r4 tranny not your 4x4 try searching...BTW welcome to the site
       
    23. joe383

      joe383 New Member

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      I can’t afford to replace a 700R4 if I broke it but I have a few turbo 350s any one know were to get an adaptor for one to a 4.0 I know that the V8 Chevy bell housing is suppose to be to big and I will have to modify the heck out of my fire wall and transmission tunnel but I am using this truck for a daily driver as well as in the mud drags and plan on using NOS and the A4LD will grenade for sure.
       
    24. RockRanger

      RockRanger Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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      Your own garage. No one makes that adapter
       
    25. zhanx

      zhanx Well-Known Member

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      i can say wrong on that.. i'll search my history but i found a guy that makes adapter to bolt anything to the 4.0
       
    26. zhanx

      zhanx Well-Known Member

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