Jefe's 700R4 swap

I got tired of the computer deciding when my 5R55E transmission should shift, since it hadn't a clue with all the mods I've done so I decided It was time for a change. The two choices were a manual, or a 700R4 for a lower crawl ratio. I love having an auto in LA traffic (and Its grown on me wheeling) so I figured I'd be the first to put a 700R4 in a 2nd gen.

All my pics are here, and I'll link the important ones to the thread.

I grabbed the two Advance Adapters parts (4.0 to 700R4, 700R4 to t-case) back in Feb for a great deal, and waited for some more cash to come around to buy the 700R4. I got the 700R4 (Level II) from Bowtie Overdrives, along with their TV system, 1800 rpm stall torque converter, dip stick, and install kit.

The trans arrives:

A few weeks before I put the trans in i decided to install the TV linkage. Somewhere between '91-'94 and 2000 the throttle body linkage changed size, so I got to modify it to fit Bowtie's TV setup. I figured since was modifying anyway I mine as well upgrade and so I threw in a BBK TB.

You can see where i ground the linkage down:

On another weekend I hacked up my center console and installed the B&M Hammer shifter. It sat a little low sitting on the floor, so I welded up a sub-frame for it out of 1" sq. tube. I plan to glass the cover in with the center console so it looks factory. (anyone want to show me how to glass?)

Part way installed:

The next step was to throw in the transmission in a weekend and hope everything else went smoothly since this is still my daily driver.

Friday night (5 hrs):
The first job was to get the control arms from the SFA out of the way, along with its bracketry:

Next, getting ready to take the t-case and transmission out:

Saturday (15 hrs):
With help, and a very tall floor jack (or a bunch of bricks ) remove t-case and transmission. Compare transmisions (AA tailshaft housing was installed previously, and the 700R4 was built with the AA output shaft):

Bolt AA adapter to engine:

Bolt adapter to torque converter and install:
I had to grind down the three bolts in order to get them flush w/ the adapter. Not sure if AA dropped the ball or what.

Bolt up trans:

Bolt up t-case:

Connect TV linkage:

Reroute cooler lines. I used rubber for now. I plan to replace with either braided stainless or hard lines. I had ordered the Bowtie overdrives lines, but they aren't long enough to reach the drivers side tank of the stock radiator, nor are they the right fittings for the radiator.

Sunday (10 hrs):
Wire up shifter. I brought the wires that went to the shift position switch on the 5R through the same hole as the shift cable. By rewraping the wire harness correctly, i didn't have to extend any wires, which was nice.
Wire up torque converter harness. I got bowties harness w/ manual lockup switch, and replaced my shifter handle with one that has a switch. so now I can lock the converter up when i'm climbing in 3rd gear. It works great.

Connect shifter, fill trans and start engine w/o exhaust Y-pipe to get neighbors attention

Modify exhaust. I had to crush the pre-cat on the passenger side in order to get the Y-pipe to fit. The O2 sensor on that side is fine. The O2 sensor on the other side clears the adapter plate by a 1/32", so others may need to grind the adapter to get it to fit. I figured I'd then drive it to an exhaust shop and have them remake my Y-pipe to fit better. However I found out that for such a new vehicle the O2 sensors and pre-cats have to be exact stock distances down the pipe to follow guidlines so no one wanted to help me there. I even talked with the local guy for a good 30 mins coming up with crazy ideas to get it to work, like remoting the oil filter and taking the exhaust around the outside of the frame rail. I ended up just using the tube that AA suplies to extend the Y-pipe so that the cats would bolt up sqaure and clear the trans. I may get to have fun when I need to smog this thing

exhaust pics:

I know I've left out many details, so if anyone has any questions, ask away.

 

[appx91]

About how long once I send my parts to Bowtie can I expect to get my tranny? Just wondering if anyone one knew. By the way I am going with the stage 3 in hope that it will hold up for pretty much ever!!!

 

[Maniak]

10 days (including a weekend) is how long it took to get my transmission.. but I'm in Az. so shipping took < 2 days

~Mark

 

[Jefe]

Got my truck back up and running this past weekend. Not much to report other than that.

10 days (including a weekend) is how long it took to get my transmission.. but I'm in Az. so shipping took < 2 days

~Mark

Sounds about right for mine also.

Not so sure about the Level 3. It may snap your neck off on a full throttle 1 to 2 shift. Does the jump from L2 to L3 get you any more improvements in hard parts? Since the V6 input drum is going to be the weak point i don't know if it gets you anything.

 

[Maniak]

I found the part number (at least what they wrote on my invoice) for the converter I'm currently using from Bowtie that gives me the high stalls.. (2700ish on brake or flash stall).

It is a c33hd and it cost me $225. I don't see it on their site and no other converters cost $225 on their site (I may have paid more since I got it locally from them.. but not sure).

~Mark

 

[Jefe]

That is the same converter I'm running. Bowtie don't list any V6 converters on their website which is why its not there. Its interesting though that PDQ doesn't have that part number in there catalog: http://www.pdqparts.com/Torque_Converters.shtml

I wonder if PDQ would be able to make a custom converter designed to go behind the 4.0. for the low stall speed we want.

 

[Jefe]

One thing I did want to cover now that I've had to deal with it again filling the transmission. The Dipstick. I started with a stock-like dipstick that Bowtie provided. It was a pretty decent shape to fit along the firewall, but it was about 4-6" short and hard to reach with the height of my truck. I then decided to go with the Lokar dipstick that AA recommends. It sounded great with a braided stainless steel body so that it contours where you want it and a nice billet aluminum handle. Well, its also a hair too short (maybe 2-3"). It ended up right at the height of the AC box and just under the PCM which makes it a pain to fill the transmission from there. I end up pulling the whole dipstick assembly from the transmission and snaking a funnel in just above the frame to fill. The other thing that I don't like about the lokar is the stick itself. Its a soft plastic that is coated with teflon or something. Great for sliping it in and out, but the ATF doesn't coat it very well so its hard to read. Plus the aluminum handle gets VERY hot after driving a bit making it impossible to hold.
Not sure if Lokar makes a longer dipstick, or a V8 dipstick from some truck would work? I imagine a dipstick from a car would be too short again.

 

[appx91]

Well guys....I have decided to scrap the new tranny....The explorer is going to become an all out rock crawler with no street time. I am getting a HEEP for a dd. The explorer is going to get a full on makeover.

 

[Jefe]

Well guys....I have decided to scrap the new tranny....The explorer is going to become an all out rock crawler with no street time. I am getting a HEEP for a dd. The explorer is going to get a full on makeover.

 

[appx91]

I am going to put a 700r4 in sometime but it just when i get the time with cutting the body up and getting everything mocked up! I know its a let down going with a heep as a DD but i have to do what i can afford and what gets the mpg.

 

[mechanic021]

Hey jefe you might want to look into maybe a fullsize truck dipstick tube or maybe a 4 cylinder s-10 dipstick tube out of a newer s-10. The 4 cylinder dispstick tubes I have seen at work come up right in on the side of the motor on the passenger side right about in the middle of the motor. OR you could always get a full size chevy van dipstick tube and cut it down. Most are like 5 feet long but nothing some cutting couldnt fix.

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

I have the same Lokar dipstick and maybe beacause it's a 1st gen, but it is mounted to my coil pack and sits between the coil pack and the firewall. I agree it's hard to read, but I haven't had the filling issues you describe as I have a little aluminum adapter that has a short 3 inch hose on it that a funnel fits into perfectly and the aluminum piece sits in the dipstick tube. I am not sure where it came from, but it is a handy little piece to keepin the glove box.

 

[Jefe]

. . .I haven't had the filling issues you describe as I have a little aluminum adapter that has a short 3 inch hose on it that a funnel fits into perfectly and the aluminum piece sits in the dipstick tube. I am not sure where it came from, but it is a handy little piece to keepin the glove box.

Doh, thanks for reminding me. The Lokar comes with that funnel adapter. I wonder where mine is.

 

[Diff Whack Daddy]

LOL

 

[410Fortune]

Lokar makes longer ones too.

the stock 5.0L dipstick fits better and is easier to read than any I have had previous.

 

[Maniak]

I lost that little adapter even before I filled the transmission for the first time. I have a funnel that seems to seal well so I don't loose much when filling, but it does fill slowly through the lokar tube.

On our fist gen the top of the dipstick tube is about even with the coilpack and I have it screwed to the body. I did have to fix the tube already. When dropping the first transmission (broke the input drum) I forgot to disconnect the tube from the transmission before I lowered it some.. It pulled the tube (braided part) out of the piece that goes into the transmission. I slipped it back on and use a hose clamp to keep it together..

I do agreee, it is very hard to read the dip-stick. It time to change the fuild again (been 10k since I put this last one in) and I'll see if I can modify the dipstick slightly to make it easier to read.

 

[turbowsr]

Finally got it going.

I finally got my Aerostar going.
I had to use a remote oil filer because on the A-star there is no room between the exhaust manifold and the AA adapter plate.
I have put only about 100 miles on it. Seems to be running well.
I also got the factory(FORD) column shifter to work, as well as the factory neutral safety switch. Mounted the cable using factory brace mounted to 700r4. Used the factory lever, and it seems the spacing between all gears is the same for the 5R55E and 700r4, the shifter shifts into the correct gear. I now only have to put in a torque converter lockup. Will be done with that soon.
I used a transmission from Mad Dog Transmissions (www.maddogtransmissions.com). Buy one from eBay for a lot less than from his web site. I had trouble with them sending me the bigger 700r4 and torque converter, but they replaced and cross-shipped the correct one. Customer service is the best I have seen in a while, so I highly recommend them. Just ask for the "Baby 700". Thats what they refer to it as.
Since this is 2WD, I had to fab a driveline. Well luckly, Jeep used many parts from GM and Ford while AMC owned them. So I went to O'Reilly's and bought a U-Joint to connect a Chevy driveline to Ford. I used a driveline from a 1979 Chevy Impala (I believe, it was sitting around, and thats what I believe I took it from, that or a 1985 Chevy El Camino). I used the driveline because it was the correct length, used the U-joint to connect the driveline to the Ford rear yoke. I was asked to clean out used vehicles at work, while doing so there was a GMC mini-bus that had an engine fire. I removed the driveline to tow it home. This driveline looks like it would work also. It is all aluminum like originally under the A-star. The one I used was steal.
I also had to remove the Catalytic converters because the engine-transmission sit to the passengers side, and the 700r4 is wider to the passenger side. Ford put both converters over there one before, one after the transmission cross member. Since there was not room, I removed them and installed a straight pipe next to the transmission(before cross-member) and a Cherry Bomb glass pack after the cross-member. The glass pack quits down the exhaust, and adds a small roar under WOT, not much tho.
I used the Lokar tranny dipstick, also. BUT for filling the tranny, I used an extra long funnel, and went thru the doghouse inside the van. That is also where I have to check the fluid. I need a tube about 4-5ft long for the van.
I also had to modify my throttle linkage to accept the Bowtie TV kit. Not as bolt on as they say. They used a linkage that is skinnier than mine.
I also installed an inline transmission filter that uses the same as the Ford oil filter, so I only need to buy one type.
Altogether I put in ~$2000. Ford quoted me $2300 just for the 5R55E, not installed.
I have 3.55 gears in the rear, and the tranny go together well. Great acceleration, plenty of throttle left at 85mph. I have not topped it out yet, but I prefer the gear ratio's of the 700r4 over the 5R55E. Seems to go with the engine well.
I will be installing 3.31 (or 3.27 cant remember which I bought) gears later. I don't believe I will notice much difference on acceleration, or pulling.
Thank you everyone for this idea.
My next project is to install a brazilian 2.8L 4 cyl POWERSTROKE diesel. These are used in South America in Ford Rangers and in Land Rovers. It has 135 hp@ and 277 ft/lb torque @1400rpm and gets about 30mpg. Supposed to go 180k Miles before major work. Just oil changes till then. With some work, the hp and torque should be able to be brought up. Right now, they are close to the Ford 4.0L. Look at what Banks is pulling out of diesels.

I will have pictures and my website up, hopefully, by Halloween.

 

[turbowsr]

700r4 troubles

My transmission is having weird problems now. I believe to be related to the "shift kit" Mad-Dog installed.

Anyhow I have concerns about what we are getting from these places. Since the transmission we are getting comes from small Chevy V6's, the 3.4L being the most powerful, they are not built strong enough for the 4.0L.
IF!! these companies are not installing a full V8 package within them, we are not getting full clutch packs. The 700r4 is notorious for buring the 2-4 band and the 3-4 clutch pack. Mostly from too much torque at too low a gear ratio and not enough fluid pressure.

By V8 package, I am referring to hard parts. The Input Drum and Reverse drum, I have been told, are shorter allowing the use of FEWER clutches. And since these builders are not used to building for the purpose of swapping into a more powerful V6, I don't believe they are using V8 parts.

A 700r4 from behind a 305 or 350 gutted and installed into the V6/60 case should work just fine with nothing to fear. The from there adjusted for our likes and needs, such as "shift kits", better bands and clutches, etc.

The Ford 4.0L is almost as powerful as a Chevy 305 (non-computer). The Chevy 3.4L is just a little more than the Ford 3.0L in power, but nowhere near the torque of the Ford 4.0L.

Number 1 killer of all Chevy 700r4 and 200-4r transmissions is TV adjustment. So this issue needs to be addressed. Bowtie has tried, but I had to modify my linkage just as Jefe did, and mine is in an older '97 model. Also the threads stripped out on the adapter to the throttle. So I had to fix that also. The adapter needs to be made from stronger material than the screws, or some type of nut needs to be installed, tho that causes a clearance issue.

IF!! a 700r4/V6/60 built to V8 spec's, even factory, and a correct TV adapter and setup are installed, there should be ZERO problems for over 150,000 miles.
I have seen these transmissions in trucks with that many miles without fluid changes or coolers installed. If cared for properly, our trucks would rust out first.

I have an extra 700r4/V6/60 and dissected it. I was amazed at the size of the internal components. They are 3-4 times LARGER than the A4LD/4R44E/5R55E hard parts. My 5R looks miniature. THAT OUGHT TO TELL US SOMETHING.

Also, I am looking into putting in a new 2005 4.0L SOHC. 210HP/245tq.

Anyone buying a 700r4/V6/60 to put into their Ford, MAKE SURE YOUR SUPPLIER UNDERSTANDS THAT YOU NEED THE V8 PARTS INSTALLED!!!!

 

[Jefe]

From what I understand Bowtie builds the V6 up just like the V8 with the exception of the input drum, which has to be a V6 part to mate with the V6 torque converter.

Also, I think the V6 3.4L uses the V8 case.

 

[turbowsr]

Only the 4.3L V6 (which is what you might be thinking) uses the V8. This engine is a 350 with 2 cylinders removed. The 3.4L V6 is a version of the early Chevy 2.8L. Only place to find the RWD 3.4L is in the F-Body of the Firebird and Camaro. The RWD 2.8L was found in S-10/15, Jimmy and S-10 Blazer, and F-Bodies. Bore it out you have the 3.1L, stroke it out and you have the 3.4L.
That is good Bowtie uses the V8 parts.
I didn't think about it and will have to research more to confirm the input drum being different for the torque converter. It could be that only a 27 spline version is for V6 converter versus the 30 spline for V8 converter.
I counted splines on my 1990 700r4/V6/60 and it does have 27 splines. It was the '82-'84 early 700's that used the 27 spline for V8, it was changed to 30 in '85.
So an input drum from 82'-84' V8 may work, but also hard to find. Also there may have been changes that would not allow this to happen.
I will find out.
Thanks for the info Jefe. Maybe Bowtie IS the place to go.

 

[Jefe]

3.4, 4.3 . .

As for the input drum, perhaps the V6 pump is also different making for a different input drum? All I do know is that my trans has a V6 input drum.