Long-Travel Suspension

[sirhk100]

That Explorer is like a work of art that is seriously functional!! You should see it in person. The fab work is outstanding. They quoted me $6000 for that front end.

 

[sirhk100]

Alright, here's the deal for prices for the front end with Perry McNeil. His front end for buckets or a coilover set up is $2000 installed plus shocks. My choices in shocks are between 2 1/2" Dead Link Removed and 2 1/2" King Shocks both with reservoirs. For the Bucket setup Perry requires a shock with a 10" stroke. The SAW shock will run $315/shock (through a distributer) and the Kings are $300/shock (from the factory). If you want to run the coil over setup you need a 14" travel threaded shock with all the components and dual coils for a progessive compression. SAW cost $585/shock and King runs $550/shock. SAW and King shocks are basically identical and most of the internal parts are actually interchangable. So using these prices a coil bucket front end with 18" of bashable travel with King shocks is $2650 w/tax and everything out the door. The coil over kit with Kings yielding 20" of travel which has upper shock hoops braced through the engine compartment is just under $3200 out the door w/ tax and everything. That's a price difference of $550 or another month of waiting. So taking all of this into consideration I think I'll be doing the coilover set up. I'm going to guess that for $4000 I could drive in with what I have now and drive out with the coil over front end, painted fiberglass bumpers and a prerunner bar!! That's the best deal in SoCal so far!!

 

[BislamJoe]

Sounds really clean man. I'm honestly really starting to lean toward the Baja Concepts 4" TTB standard-width kit. I'll probably run a 2.5" SAW coilover up front, just springover the rear until I can afford to build my toolboxes and arrange the rear suspension. But for now, my first order of business in modland is my V8 swap. I'm starting to collect parts as I can afford them; and I've finally settled on a source for my engine and transmission. I'm going to buy a new 5.0 from Ford Racing (the 345hp one :drool: ) and a new AOD (i'm thinking carparts.com or one of those places).

 

[sirhk100]

Nice, that much trouble would get me in way to much trouble. I think the gears I'm getting will keep me happy and I'll be going fast enough in the dirt with the suspension.

 

[BislamJoe]

lol - Yeah. Honestly, I thought about supercharging my V6, beefing up the tranny, and maybe getting an Atlas II, then gearing to handle the tires. But then I figured that I may later want still more power, and there's only so much you can do to a 4.0 OHV. I think the V8 will offer me a lot more room for expansion if I think I want it later on.

 

[sirhk100]

Yeah, the V8 will give you a lot of room to expand. I couldn't imagine what my ride would be like with 300+ horse!! I would be so broke from replacing all my tires evertime I left the line next to a honda. A pair of 33s once a month would get old!!

 

[BislamJoe]

LOL - I heard that bud! But I've kinda taught myself to drive with a light foot anyway, so I should be okay. And as far as burning tires go, I may go as far as to buy 2 sets. Some 33" cheap tires for street use, calibrate my speedo for that, and some 35" BFG MT km's or Goodyear MT/R's. But the budget steps in and says, "The hell you are, son." So I'll likely get 35" BFG's or Goodyears and watch that close relationship my right big toe has with the floorboard.

 

[sirhk100]

Hey man, you're from Texas have you seen that map of the Middle East where they rename the countries due to the East coast bombings? The one where Afganhistan is labeled New Texas and the surrounding countries are renamed as oil companies like Shell and Exxon. It's pretty funny.

 

[BislamJoe]

lol - I haven't seen that one; sounds like something I'd like though.

 

[BislamJoe]

OK! I think I've actually settled (...I've never said that before...) on what I'll do up front. After talking a little on the race-dezert.com board, I'm thinking start with the Baja Concepts widened TTB, but leave out the coils. Then I'll get some 2.5" dual-rate SAW coilovers and have coils turned by National. I was told that if I run different alignment cams, I could pull a 4" lift out of that setup. In the rear, I'll probably just SOA for a while, then build from there. I think for the rear I'll dream up something not unlike the Bronco at Autofab (Dead Link Removed). I'll probably only run 2 shocks per wheel in back though, behind the axle. I might wait on the fiberglass altogether until I've got my suspension where I want it. I may run like 32's under stock sheetmetal until I get the suspension like I want it. Then I'll 'glass it (i'm still thinking the bodystyle update kit...), gear to 3.73 or 4.10 (i'm not sure what my gears are now, i need to check), then mount some "real" tires - 35x12.5x15 BFG MT KM's.

 

[sirhk100]

Yeah, I think I've officially decided to go with King dual rate Coilovers stacked with 2 600lb Eibach coils just cause they're $70 cheaper then SAW and it seems like every kid around here is running SAW. I'm going with Perry's suspension kit installed. Still just doing the 1st gen. fiberglass fenders. The rear I'll go with a set of Deaver or National leafs SOA with 2.5" King reservoir and a two link like the one on the Autofab Bronco. Man, it's a bummer you can't get out here to San Diego. In a day I could show you just about every shop we've discussed and almost every sample vehicle we've looked at. That Bronco sits out in front of Autofab everyday. Did you see John's truck on the Autofab page. The Black F100. That thing is AWESOME!!!!!!!!


Ohh, and my Exploder is going in tonight for 4:56 gears. I've got 3:73s right now and I'm on 32" tires. Once these tires wear out (about 1/2 tread) I'll go to 33s if I don't have the front glass/suspension by then or 35s if I've got the glass.

One other thing, I'm going to spread the cost out a little. I'm going to keep my eyes open for a used set of 14" stroke coilovers but if I don't see any by mid Nov. I'll buy the coilovers from King and just stick them in my room. I feel more comfortable spreading the cost out over time instead of just dumping my savings all at once. That also will keep me from going back and forth between different setups.

 

[BislamJoe]

Yeah - I'll be collecting parts (esp. for the V8 swap) over time for my stuff. I'll eventually get leaves made for the rear, then run a 2.5" shocks. Should I mess with dual rear shocks? Something funny, I have never seen a truck around here with Sway-A-Way's. I honestly don't know what brand of shock I'll choose...

Say, what color is your truck? Maybe I should paint mine white and keep the old body style... How strange would it be to have 3 white Explorers with 4" of lift, fiberglass, and 35's?

 

[sirhk100]

Mines Red, there's that little pic of it on the link in my profile. If you're running 2.5" SAW or Kings you'll only need one. Duals would be over kill. Trust me, these shocks are WAY beyond the yellow bilstiens that you hear everyone else on here running. These are true race shocks that can be taken apart and rebuilt or valved specifically for your vehicle and driving habits. Litterally you would notice a huge improvment by just extending your Radius arms to allow for more movment of the TTB and installing a set of these shocks for control. Too bad it's not thata simple since you have to fab upper shock mounts and also you'd be running a very stable system but it would maybe yield 10" of travel which is on the bottom end of what you're looking for.

 

[BislamJoe]

Looks like I'll run single rear shocks...

Quality-wise, who would you recommend, SAW or King? I didn't dare ask this question on the race-dezert board, since that's apparently been the source of some conflict in the past. From the price difference you mention, I think I'll go with whichever performs best. Would you say that they're equal? Or is one a better performer?

 

[fordkrazy]

on the note of choosing single or dual. if you are going to beat the hell out of it i would get the dual. if you are just going to offroad occasionally then yes it would be overkill. if you look at those desert racers most all of them run dual shocks per wheel one coiled one not. you have to realize that they are race shocks and arent ment to last for a real long time...just perform well. a well funded race team will revalve/rebuild every race to maintain consistancy and they are designed with that in mind. i dont know how much it costs to rebuild them but it may be worth it to get duals in the long run. also if you have duals you can run a slightly softer spring rate to give you a better ride and just valve the shocks a little stiffer.

 

[sirhk100]

Here's the deal with the hole shock issue. Basically there's three major companies that build the shocks we're talking about. King, Saw, and Bilstien. Bilstien is donig their own thing and makes a really high quality product that I don't know a whole lot about. King and SAW are identicle. It all started basically as this. In the begining there was basically only one shock that the true desert racers ran, Kuster. Kuster was the only shock in the game except for the teams that had teh technology to build there own. Kuster's prices were really high though cause there was no other choice. I'm talking like $1000 a piece for the shocks we're looking at. Then SAW jumped into the production when a couple guys from Kuster jumped ship. They started more of a production frun of the shocks which enabled them to get the costs WAY down. They were building the exact same shock and selling it for 1/2 the price. This put Kuster out of buisness. A guy by the name of Brett King that worked for Kuster when they went under and who basically designed the shocks for Kuster went out on his own and started King shocks. This all has happened over the past 5 years or so. King and SAW are identicle. Supposedly you can rebuild either with the others internals. I've heard rumors that SAW seals last longer but King has better quality control overall. Basically the people that run Kings run them till a seal goes out then replaces it with a SAW seal. I think a lot of the opinions on brands on Race-Dezert comes from a small knit community that has to deal with being friends but still loyal to their sponsors. Also the industry is in very close contact with it's consumers, I mean you can call up King Shocks and talk with Brett King, if you don't like his attitude you buy SAW and tell everyone he's a dick and not to buy King eventhough they are identicle. I don't have any 1st hand experience with any of the shocks but do have a friend that races class 7s and swears by King Shocks.

As for the dual setup. What the guy said above is somewhat valid. Yes they all run dual shocks but look at those dual shocks. The one we want is the one inside the coilover. Those guys are using that shock WAY different then how we're using it. 1st off, we're talking in the rear which is supported by Leafs so we don't need a means of mounting a coil like in the front. Our shock is solely used for controling the leafs actions. They use it more as a mount for a coil and a backup for their other shock. Now look at the other shock, I'll put money down that it's not your typical reservoir that we're talking about. It's got 2-4 little tubes coming out of it. That's a bypass shock. They work way different and give a performance WAY above what we are looking at and that comes along with a cost. They principles behind how it works are simple but get real complicated when you get down to the tuning details.

Trust me, you'll be fine with just one. How many are you planning up front? 1 right? Just the one in the coilover. You'll be blown away by that one shock. It'll work WAY better then having dual Bilstiens or anything else in the 0-100$/shock range!!

As for reliability, they run 300-1000 mile races at 50-150mph in those trophy trucks. We won't ever see the abuse that their trucks see!!! granted they run 3" and 4" shocks but that's because they have more fluid and run cooler. There's guys around here that have been trashing there trucks for years and still havn't touched their shocks. Hell, I saw Dan Vance in his Baja Shop built prerunner Ranger catch close to 10' of air. When he landed he almost broke his passenger side chromoly I beam in half but the shocks weren't leaking or blown!!!

 

[sirhk100]

OH SHIET!!! We've been thouroughly out done!!!! Here's some new pics of that Camburg Explorer!!!


Dead Link Removed


and scroll to the bottom!!

 

[BislamJoe]

GREAT JUMPIN' JIMINY MOSES! That's nuts! It's not fair, either... we were gonna have the baddest ass Explorers ever built, then they come along and ruin our fun. Poop. I'm jealous. Oh well; I'll still build mine up to be pretty clean.

 

[BislamJoe]

Ok, seriously though... Something came up in another thread (http://208.38.138.31/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34957) about swapping in a fullsize TTB instead of widening the D35. Those who had something to say about it seemed to think that it wouldn't be terribly difficult.
So, to quote Darryl Hammond (as Sean Connery) "I pose a conundrum to ye, a riddle if you will". Would it be cheaper to go get a Dana 44 TTB (or a Dana 44 HD or Dana 50, for that matter), then have the beams cut-and-turned for 4 inches of lift, then mounting custom radius arms and coilovers, or to go with the widened D35's that we've discussed?

I know, I know. You're getting tired of me changing my mind.

 

[sirhk100]

It's better to change your mind now then later!!!!!!!

Hmmmmm, I've thought about that but was told it would be a major Biatch!!! I don't remember who or where I heard that though. I never understood high it would be hard though. You could build radius arms with a curve to them. Check out the bottom ones on this page closely Dead Link Removed
Why wouldn't that work. Then you could either mount the coilovers to the TTB or radius arms, at least I think I've seen them mounted to radius arms. Okay, so lets add up the price, these are just guesses, feel free to edit them if you think they're off. My gear deal fell through but I've found another shop to do it so it'll probably be done within a couple weeks. For me I would need the full size TTBs. Let say $200 from the junk yard. Gears to match the rear end unless I luck out, and rebuild kit etc.... assuming nothing crazy was wrong with them, $750 installed just to be a little on the expensive side since it is junk yard stuff. Will the drive shaft bolt up? If not $100 to change the end of our stock on. Misc. stuff to get brakes, ball joints and other stuff up to working condition, $200. Coil over Kings, $1100 w/o tax. Fabrication cost for the upper and lower shock mounts and radius arms, $1000. That adds up to $3350 which is a little more then Perry's stuff that I'm leaning towards installed for a coilover kit. Did I forget anything? Are the prices reasonable? what do you think