How to: Manual Transmission in 4.6 V8 4X4

[whiteknight1982]

Hi guys- I'm new to your forum, and I have some questions.

I have a 2002 Explorer Limited, V8 4.6 litre 4X4 and I love it, but the ATX transmission is toast. I never did like auto's, and would rather modify this once to accept a manual transmission and keep the 4X4. I have searched a bunch of info, but I am not sure if this has been successfully done by anyone here to know if it is in fact do-able.

The last post I've found that seems close is below:

According to what I have been able to find out so far:

macknos94
05-29-2010

Here is what you will need to swap in a manual tranny with the 4x4 t case.
Tranny and slave out of 97 body style 4.6 f150 along with a manual t case from the same style truck. Clutch peddle out of 3rd gen along with the master. Then the hydro line can come from any manual 3rd gen ex.
As for the clutch and flywheel you just need one for a 4.6 f150. Last but not least a tune to cut out the electric tranny and t case stuff. It's a straight forward swap and you won't have to do much cutting besides the shift and t case shifter.

As for the drive shaft length I haven't gotten that far but they should be the right length.

Can't remember who posted this in another thread, but I copied it for reference. (apologies to O/P)

You would need to look for a 5spd from 4.6 or 5.4 equipped 97+ F150 same with the transfer case. 4406

I've looked up on transmission info and found the following trans ID codes regarding the M5R2 transmissions for 4 wheel drive applications:

f150 '97-'98
F65A-BD
F75A-DA
F85A-DA

f150 '99-2000
XL34-ZB
XL34-ZC

f250 '97-'98
F65A-FD
F75A-DA
F85A-DA

f250 1999
XL-34-ZB
XL34-ZC


1. Will any or all of these work (ie; direct bolt up to bellhousing, input output shaft splines compatible, transfer case etc?)
2. Does anyone know what the differences are between the years, or between f150 vs. f250? (ie:Are there differences in bellhousing, input or output shafts, or gear ratios?)
3. Can I still use the electronic t-case from my truck? (Would prefer this, for costs, and cleanliness inside cabin, though I'm not opposed to doing fabrication or modification work- These posts talk about the manual transfer case from the f150.)
4. can the ECU simply be flashed to tell it to ignore the (lack of) input from the missing 5R55S (I think that's the ATX that's in it now)?

I don't need heavy duty, my Explorer is a daily driver, don't tow often and don't do much off road- I'm just trying to see which options might work, so I can broaden my search, maybe find a lower mileage transmission, and hopefully save money. (Or based on the differences, if all of these would work, is one of these better for a daily driver?

Thanks in advance- would love to have her fixed and back on the road with three footpedals! (I'm not including the e-brake!)

Dave

Edit March, 2016

Sorry for the delay in posting- but this DID get completed!

For those of you who are interested in how this was done- read on. I am going to post up my pictures of what I needed to do to complete this swap.

 

[whiteknight1982]

OK- not a lot of answers there; maybe too many questions at once! Lol!

How about this-

Does anyone know if the flexplate on a 4.6 litre V8 Explorer has an 8 or a 6 bolt pattern?

Did some come with 6 some with 8?

Any way of finding out before I rip it apart?

I was hoping to have all the parts ordered in before the tear down so it can be reassembled the same weekend, and I don't want to have to buy two flywheels to do so.

Thanks

 

[Limited02]

I don't expect you to get many answers because not many people have done this (if at all). Your best bet is to move forward with the project, document your findings (with pictures) and once completed, create a writeup.

 

[Red98explorer]

To my knowledge all 4.6 explorers came with a six bolt crank and flex plate. A standard trans in an explorer would be alot of fun. However seems like you would have to hack so much up to make it work. Is there a center console you could use for the shifter? Also what about the floor. I doubt it is stamped out for a clutch pedal. Good luck on your project. I really wanna see some pics of this completed.

 

[HiImBrian]

According to the shop manual for my 03, the 5R55S has got an 8-bolt flex plate and has an 8-bolt bell housing.

 

[whiteknight1982]

Thanks for the reply's guys.

I'm surprised no one has done this yet. (Or at least posted it if they have, cause auto's suck.) And while going from auto to manual should be relatively easy cause you are reducing size, and complexity (ie: the driver becomes the brains of shifting, not the ECU), I would rather attempt this than to try even swapping an auto from a different year. Automatics are so finicky and delicate compared to a manual.

Plus,manuals, IMHO, are so much more fun to drive.

From what I've read and researched, there is only one bellhousing pattern on the modular V8's, so any V8 trans from a 4.6 should bolt onto our V8 modular engine.

I will post the progress, but have already sourced a transmission from a 4x4 4.6 litre F150, and footpedals from a V6 manual gen 3 Explorer.

Will buy new clutch, pressure plate, master and slave cylinders to install once auto is out of the truck, and see what happens with the transfer case.

Am prepared to swap in a manual transfer case and cut the floor for it, but a friend of mine has done some research and thinks the electronic transfer case will bolt up to the M5R2 4x4 5 speed transmission, which might make this easier than I'd hoped.

To Red and Brian:

Forgive my ignorance- I am a backyard hobbyist at best, and most of my experience is with front wheel drive cars till now.

I did a swap with a 5-speed manual Taurus SHO drivetrain into a Mercury Sable wagon a few years ago, as the wagon's were not offered with manuals in that generation. The only Taurus available from 92-95 with a stick was the SHO, and that was literally about 2% of production. Yet the floor pan was stamped where the stick would come through the floor if it had been made a manual, so I won't be surprised to see a pattern in the Explorer. But if there isn't, oh well, that's what tape measures are for! (And for the record, the SHO engine- 220 Hp and 225lbs/ft of torque with a 5-speed manual transmission in a wagon is fun! and a real sleeper!)

Red- I expect to cut the floor and add a rubber bushing to "seal" the hole around the shifter, and I will modify the existing console, probably with a removable, tray-like insert in the cubby where the stick with come through the floor. But the gen three explorer had a manual in the V6 and sporttrack, I might see if the console fits my truck and just swap it out, too once I get that far. The pedals should bolt right up instead of the stock brake pedal bracket, but instead of a brake pedal/bracket, it is a brake/clutch pedal/bracket. Master cylinder attaches to that, rubber hose goes to transmission into slave cylinder.

Brian- thanks for the pic- part 95 the flexplate, right? That looks a lot different than the front wheel drive setups I'm used to. Looks like there are things bolted to both sides of the torque convertor? Part 58 on tranny side and 95 to the crank?

But the flexplate (if it is part 95 looks like 8 bolts!!) Yaay!

Thanks; awesome info: (And I realize I should have asked if it was a 6 or 8 bolt "flexplate", not flywheel, as the auto has a flexplate

Dave

 

[HiImBrian]

Thanks for the reply's guys.

I'm surprised no one has done this yet. (Or at least posted it if they have, cause auto's suck.) And while going from auto to manual should be relatively easy cause you are reducing size, and complexity (ie: the driver becomes the brains of shifting, not the ECU), I would rather attempt this than to try even swapping an auto from a different year. Automatics are so finicky and delicate compared to a manual.

Plus,manuals, IMHO, are so much more fun to drive.

From what I've read and researched, there is only one bellhousing pattern on the modular V8's, so any V8 trans from a 4.6 should bolt onto our V8 modular engine.

I will post the progress, but have already sourced a transmission from a 4x4 4.6 litre F150, and footpedals from a V6 manual gen 3 Explorer.

Will buy new clutch, pressure plate, master and slave cylinders to install once auto is out of the truck, and see what happens with the transfer case.

Am prepared to swap in a manual transfer case and cut the floor for it, but a friend of mine has done some research and thinks the electronic transfer case will bolt up to the M5R2 4x4 5 speed transmission, which might make this easier than I'd hoped.

To Red and Brian:

Forgive my ignorance- I am a backyard hobbyist at best, and most of my experience is with front wheel drive cars till now.

I did a swap with a 5-speed manual Taurus SHO drivetrain into a Mercury Sable wagon a few years ago, as the wagon's were not offered with manuals in that generation. The only Taurus available from 92-95 with a stick was the SHO, and that was literally about 2% of production. Yet the floor pan was stamped where the stick would come through the floor if it had been made a manual, so I won't be surprised to see a pattern in the Explorer. But if there isn't, oh well, that's what tape measures are for! (And for the record, the SHO engine- 220 Hp and 225lbs/ft of torque with a 5-speed manual transmission in a wagon is fun! and a real sleeper!)

Red- I expect to cut the floor and add a rubber bushing to "seal" the hole around the shifter, and I will modify the existing console, probably with a removable, tray-like insert in the cubby where the stick with come through the floor. But the gen three explorer had a manual in the V6 and sporttrack, I might see if the console fits my truck and just swap it out, too once I get that far. The pedals should bolt right up instead of the stock brake pedal bracket, but instead of a brake pedal/bracket, it is a brake/clutch pedal/bracket. Master cylinder attaches to that, rubber hose goes to transmission into slave cylinder.

Brian- thanks for the pic- part 95 the flexplate, right? That looks a lot different than the front wheel drive setups I'm used to. Looks like there are things bolted to both sides of the torque convertor? Part 58 on tranny side and 95 to the crank?

But the flexplate (if it is part 95 looks like 8 bolts!!) Yaay!

Thanks; awesome info: (And I realize I should have asked if it was a 6 or 8 bolt "flexplate", not flywheel, as the auto has a flexplate

Dave

These should help with your questions.

Since the explorer is available in a manual overseas/Canada, you should have no problem swapping in a center console/e brake and clutch assembly (if you can find one); and I'm sure the floor will be stamped. The Sport Trac stuff won't fit. Only real issue is finding a compatible trans. Don't forget you'll also need a tune to shut off all the auto trans stuff in the computer.

And don't be too eager to assume that all the bolt patterns are the same. I believe the Romeo block has a different pattern than the Windsor Block (although both 8-bolt). Could be wrong though. You might want to poke around on some of the mustang forums....

Good luck!

 

[whiteknight1982]

Thanks Brian. I already thought of the tune, but just not where and how to do that yet. For a start, just figured I'd have to trick the computer to think its in park to engage the starter. (Plus need to figure out if I use the F150 or Ex starter. But that small details.

Different bell housings for the same motor! Crap! Romeo and Windsor, huh? Guess I'll have to do more poking around.

And looking at that diagram, I don't think the eight bolts I was looking at are the crank bolts- too wide of a circumference. So Red might be right, it might be 6?

Might just have to order two flywheels in and return the one I don't use.

Thanks for the input!

Dave

 

[HiImBrian]

Thanks Brian. I already thought of the tune, but just not where and how to do that yet. For a start, just figured I'd have to trick the computer to think its in park to engage the starter. (Plus need to figure out if I use the F150 or Ex starter. But that small details.

Different bell housings for the same motor! Crap! Romeo and Windsor, huh? Guess I'll have to do more poking around.

And looking at that diagram, I don't think the eight bolts I was looking at are the crank bolts- too wide of a circumference. So Red might be right, it might be 6?

Might just have to order two flywheels in and return the one I don't use.

Thanks for the input!

Dave

For the tune get in touch with James Henson at hensonperformance.com, he is a vendor here. I may be wrong about the bell housings, but I can swear I remember reading that somewhere.

 

[Red98explorer]

Well that makes it easier if the firewall is already set up to accept a pedal, slave cylinder and if you already have something in mind for the console. Also I just had my motor out of my 3rd gen 4.6 and from the crank to the flex plate was 6 bolt standard GT setup. Then from that flex plate (w/ teeth for the starter)to the (I guess it could be called an adapter plate) that bolts to the torque converter is 8 bolt. The picture in the shop drawing is only showing the adapter plate. Notice no starter teeth on it. Kind of a weird setup from anything I have even seen. It's a two piece design. I'm used to the 4r70w flex and converter. Anyway like I said before good luck with the project. I definitely wanna see some pictures when finished.

BTW... Bell housing bolt pattern should be the same. As far as a Stang goes you could put any 4r70w behind any 4.6 same for 5.4, and it would bolt right up no matter if it was a Romeo or Windsor casting.

 

[whiteknight1982]

So it's not just me then- it is a little weird- a two piece design.

I think you are right about the 6 bolt. Funny- I phoned a local dealership and they told me (confidently) it was 8. But a ford mechanic friend looked it up and said he thinks it should be 6 as well.

BTW... Bell housing bolt pattern should be the same. As far as a Stang goes you could put any 4r70w behind any 4.6 same for 5.4, and it would bolt right up no matter if it was a Romeo or Windsor casting.

That's a relief! My transmission arrived from a different province yesterday- 115 bucks for shipping! That was a bit more of a concern after reading that there might be two different bolt patterns! I'll breathe easier once I do a test fit.

Will post pics as it goes, I expect to start it in early February if I can coordinate the shop schedule with my buddy.

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[87350gta]

Sounds like a fun swap. The '02 explorers were available with a 5 speed manual, but only the 6 cyl. The 4.6l flywheel/flexplate is 100% 6-bolt in the Explorer. That picture from the shop manual shows the adapter plate to adapt the torque converter to the larger 4.6l diameter flexplate like RED98 said. What are your plans for the transfer case? Your factory automatic transfer case will not fit any manuals cases, as far as I know. I didn't see anything, but I just kinda skimmed over everything. You might have to use on from a '01 and older explorer or a sport '02-'04 ish sport or sport trac.

 

[whiteknight1982]

Ok- What I was hoping would be a 1 month job that I started in February is now on the road as of the end of April, almost complete with many thanks to the help of some friends, and the use of their shop. What was supposed to be a straight forward, bolt-on swap took longer than expected- who knew?

-The manual transmission is from a 1998 Ford F150- an M5R2;
-need to use F150 starter to fit flyeheel ring gear (Explorer's will NOT work)
-new flywheel clutch, pressure plate, release bearing, slave cylinder from Rock Auto
-the transfer case is from a 1999 F250, an electric-shift borg warner that is not automatic all-wheel drive like the explorer was. (which I prefer)
-Driveshafts are from the Explorer, cut shorter and with F150 u-joints at the T-case. -Clutch master cylinder and pedals from a 2006 Ranger, with some mods at the firewall, and a custom hydraulic hose.
-Needed to do a 1 1/2 inch body lift to clear the larger transfer case, and still needed to do a (small) mod to the floor. (could not source out explorer pedals- rare)
Removed 2nd catalytic converter and added a straight pipe, also due to the size of the massive T-case.
-Modified transmission support by adding a bracket further forward to match the bolts on the Manual trans
-remote shifter modification as the shift lever from the M5R2 came through the floor under the dash, slightly ahead of the access door that was already there, which required a small enlarging of the hole.
-modified the heater box at heater core, as shifter would hit it and not engage 1st, 3rd or 5th gear.
-plugged the old trans range sensor into harness with it in Park so truck will start.

Drives great! Shifts like the M5R2 in my 1992 Thunderbird Supercoupe... which is to say, it shifts like a truck!

Will post pics soon to show what I've posted here, and I do have parts lists from Rock Auto if anyone is interested.

But thanks to all those who offered help so far, and it was absolutely a 6-bolt flywheel as 87350gta said!

Still have a few bugs to work out, though.

Still need to do some small things like add a shift boot and floor cover for the shifter, and it needs a tune, for which I have been in touch with James Henson at hensonperformance.com at HiImBrian's suggestion (thanks!). But it's currently only RWD.

The big thing is the wiring for transfer case so the switches on the dash will control the electric T-case shift motor. The transfer case is not automatic all-wheel drive like the explorer was (which I prefer anyway). I am hoping it's just a matter of re-pinning the plug to the transfer case so the switches on the dash will control the T-case shift motor. The Explorer just had a whole bunch more pins (I guess for the inputs from the wheel sensors to detect slip and to engage the AWD.)

Does anybody know how to do this? Can anyone look at the wiring diagrams and see if this is possible, and if so, is anyone willing to take the time to tell me what wires are needed and where they should be spliced?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

thanks in advance

Dave

 

[Kazer]

Pics Pics Pics!

 

[87350gta]

I can get the wiring diagrams for you, is your explorer an early or late build '02? If you are not sure, the theft light is in the instrument cluster on early build and on the top of the dash on the later built.

 

[87350gta]

You might want to switch the trans range sensor to neutral instead of park, the 4x4 module has to see neutral to shift into 4x4 low, and it will still start. There is a line on the sensor to line up neutral.

 

[whiteknight1982]

87350gta, thank-you, that's great. I do know mine is an early build.

I have a co-worker that does understand wiring and the diagrams will be useful to him- he said he'd look at it to see if he can decipher what needs to be done.

Wiring is black magic to me- are you suggesting that it might be as simple as changing the range sensor to neutral to have the 4x4 engage?

That would be awesome!

 

[87350gta]

Not quite that simple. I just mean, once you get everything wired up, it will not allow 4x4 LOW to engage unless it is in neutral.

 

[whiteknight1982]

OK- I figured that it couldn't be that easy... i just got a bit excited thinking it might be

Do you have access to the wiring diagrams for the 1999 F250?

Don't I need that to compare the wiring between those two to be able to rewire my pigtail?

 

[87350gta]

The ones that say early and late are explorer diagrams, the other 2 are for the f250