Dismiss Notice



Register Today It's free! This box will disappear once registered!

My 98 super charged EX

Discussion in 'Elite Explorer Registry' started by 4pointslow, July 1, 2008.

  • Searches ExplorerForum.com
    1. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      13.20 best run today too.
      As a matter of fact, tried 3 different pulleys, ran 13.20 each time. WTH!
      Truck is messing with me!
      Going back tomorrow, Atco Race track opens at 9am again.
       
    2. Support EF

      Join the Elite Explorers for $20

      Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose fix problems yourself, and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members see practically no ads, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments in all forums, and Media Gallery, create more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.


      to hide adverts.
    3. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 18, 2009
      Messages:
      4,698
      Likes Received:
      118
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Winnipeg, Manitoba
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      00 Limited V8
      I simply don't understand
       
    4. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 17, 2004
      Messages:
      17,266
      Media:
      3
      Albums:
      1
      Likes Received:
      461
      Trophy Points:
      113
      City, State:
      Knoxville, TN
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 Limited AWD
      Keep digging, you'll figure it out I'm sure.
       
    5. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      January 22, 2007
      Messages:
      8,786
      Likes Received:
      235
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      selkirk, manitoba
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 supercharged 347 sport
      im not going to be happy with you until you beat your best time. :angryfire:
       
    6. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      I swear I am going nuts.
      When I was racing I was looking at the boost gauge I swear I saw 16lbs on my first run with 3.3 pulley and overdriven supercharger.
      Same as the 2.7 on stock SC.
      I thought ok, more flow less boost showing up, makes sense.
      What doesn't make sense is the truck is not faster, WTH?

      3.2 I thought I saw 17psi and 3.1 I thought I saw 18.
      Now going back to try to see the boost gauge in the videos I am not sure.
      The lighting was messed up because it was day time, at night you can see the gauge better because it is lit up.

      Also keep in mind that at some point more boost doesn't increase power, just heats up the air.
      Maybe I am at that point already at 16psi?

      I saw 856 maf counts with the stock supercharger, and I swear I saw 860 something yesterday but forgot to download the datalogs to my jump drive.
      I will do that today for comparison.
      Maybe I will try running with the parking lights on in the daytime to see if the boost gauge is more visible.

      I still need to play with timing and shift points, maybe I can do that today if I can get enough runs in.
      Only got 4 runs in yesterday it was so crowded and there was track clean up after clean up. (one wreck and a couple engine failures I heard).
       
    7. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      Here are screen shots from the videos, near the end of the 1/4 mile.
      Keep in mind rpm effects this a little too.
      Pics..
      1 = 3.3 pulley
      2 = 3.2 pulley
      3 = 3.1 pulley
      Looks like 17,18, and 19 psi

      3pt3 pulley.jpg 3pt2 pulley.jpg 3pt1 pulley.jpg
       
    8. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      I am left lane.

      IMG_1585.JPG
       
      • Like Like x 4
    9. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 18, 2009
      Messages:
      4,698
      Likes Received:
      118
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Winnipeg, Manitoba
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      00 Limited V8
      That's what we were waiting for!!!
      Do you have any idea what was holding you back?
       
    10. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      I added some timing, that may have helped but not sure because weather conditions were changing all day.
      It actually warmed up to 62F and that's around where I ran that time slip.
      My previous best was in 40F weather?
      Nothing made sense today, it was 32 degrees last week and went up to 62 today, WTH?

      Some other things to mention.
      Since the 3.2 and 3.1 pulleys raised boost but did not give me quicker 1/4 mile times, I think I finally realized my sweet spot with boost.
      Any more and it just heats up the air.
      I could never find that point before.
      The boost dropped from pinning a little past 20, to around 16-17 with the heads and cams. And my maf counts went a little higher.
      So the heads and cams are doing something for flow through the engine. I now need to work on getting intake air temps as low as possible and move timing up.

      I hit rev limiter a few times today. Got fed up with it and said time to raise the rev limiter from 6250 to 6500.
      Never hit rev limiter again.
      Something new happened though. The shift points seemed to all align up to about 6,000 and if the shift didn't happen fast enough timing was pulled.
      The timing being pulled cut power big time. But it was not the rev limiter. A way different feel. Just a major drop in power, no cylinder drop outs.
      It happened real bad once between 3-4. Smooth but major drop out in power.
      So in my tune there is a place for rpm shifts in the shift schedule section, I think I was hitting those points and that was causing the timing to be retarded to cut power. This gives me a little more understanding on which tables to change when I feel either condition. I might be able to play with these numbers to get things working better.
      The other thing I noticed was when the timing was retarded to cut power, the rpm had a major false reading in it. went up to like 16,000. Very unrealistic number.
      I know the PCM can put false data into the pids because I see it and teach it at work. With O2 sensors if the PCM can not get the O2 sensors cross counting they often put in false values to drive fuel trims the other direction to see what happens. When that doesn't work it goes back to the real readings and eventually the PCM will go into open loop.
      Also with coolant temp sensors I have seem multiple times when the PCM put the intake air temp readings into the coolant temp readings when the coolant temp sensor went open (circuit or component).
      So all this makes me believe that the 16,000 rpms is just false data the PCM is putting in the data stream to control things.


      Today I added 2 degrees timing, then 2 more, then 2 more, then 2 more and detonation finally showed up.
      So I removed 2 and thought it would be ok.... But it detonated again and I had to remove 2 more. Then no more detonation.
      So I was running a total of 24 degrees timing. I think stock is 28.
      I also think I am too close to detonation with intake air temps going to high.
      But what is too high? Especially on a highly modified set up with water methanol injection and a liquid intercooler.
      I will spend more time looking at the data, and plan to modify my intercooler system if possible.
      Maybe I can even get a bigger jet for the water methanol system.

      I lowered the shift points for 1-2,2-3,and 3-4 by 4mph each and my next run was 13.032
      So that may not have been the right move with shift points.
      I need to try raising shift points now.

      My head is spinning with all this information and the weird things that happened today.
      Atco said they were not opening tomorrow, which sucks because I was going to experiment with shift points.
      Maybe they will be open next weekend.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Useful Useful x 1
    11. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 18, 2009
      Messages:
      4,698
      Likes Received:
      118
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Winnipeg, Manitoba
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      00 Limited V8
      So the reduced boost readings were completely expected.
      Maybe the reduced boost pressure lowered iat's, and allowed more timing?

      Its funny, I found as temps dove I had more detonation issues here. I thought that this was because of the fuel changing to a winter blend at the pumps (More ethanol I believe),

      Sounds like it was a great day today.
       
    12. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 17, 2004
      Messages:
      17,266
      Media:
      3
      Albums:
      1
      Likes Received:
      461
      Trophy Points:
      113
      City, State:
      Knoxville, TN
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 Limited AWD
      Excellent, that sounds like the kind of details it takes to massage the tune and boost(pulley) to hit the best time.
       
    13. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      Might go to Cecil County Drag Way in Maryland tomorrow.
      See how I feel when I wake up. Gates open at 8:00am
      I want to test out a colder spark plug to see if I can get some more spark advance.
      Going with Spark Plugs NGK BR7EF-VPOWER 3346
      .030 Gap

      Put them in tonight so tomorrow I just got to fill up with 93 Octane and head out.
      If I don't make it there tomorrow then Atco Raceway on Sunday.
       
    14. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      October 15, 2008
      Messages:
      10,601
      Likes Received:
      200
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      va beach
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      92explorer&94 ranger
      What did you run before?? I run a Br6ef ..i got fouling on br7ef,probably because of e85..i ran tr6 for years but needed a non projectile tip ..the br6ef are same temps as tr6,one step colder than stock..
       
    15. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      I have been running TR6's for years. They worked great but I want to test these out just for experimenting with spark advance.
      They are 2 steps colder and recessed like you said.
      I saw no benefit from them years ago but different heads and cams so time to retest.

      What gap do you run?
       
      • Like Like x 1
    16. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      October 15, 2008
      Messages:
      10,601
      Likes Received:
      200
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      va beach
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      92explorer&94 ranger
      .032

      If they give you issues for being too cold try the br6ef..being recessed they still will give you detonation protection but not as cold,definitely better for daily use also
       
    17. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      October 15, 2008
      Messages:
      10,601
      Likes Received:
      200
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      va beach
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      92explorer&94 ranger
      What iat are you seeing?? I forgot you are IC also ontop of w/m

      Also you monitor tranny Temps or pressure ?? Id guess that thing is slipping or the convertor is being over powered by now
       
    18. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      My IAT's are about 134F
      Thanks for the spark plug "tip". lol Pun intended.

      I don't monitor transmission temps on a regular basis.
      I have not had problems with the transmission blowing up since I stopped doing 4WD burnouts.
      I never rebuilt this transmission, had 104,000 when I brought the truck home from a junkyard.
      Broke the two sprag (one way) clutches doing that burnout years ago, replaced the sprags with used ones off eBay and some new gaskets.
      No seals or clutches were replaced.

      Keep in mind 4.88 gears make it easier to move the truck, that may be what is keeping the trans hanging on for dear life.

      The shifting problems I am having are purely tune related.
      Installing the 4.88 threw out my entire shift schedule and the rate of acceleration this thing has adds to the problems.
      Then there is the rev limiter, spark blow out, wheel spin, and torque reduction on shifts that have added to my confusion.
      I know just enough to make small adjustments to try to compensate and get it to shift right but during racing I cant always think straight to see what needs to be done. Too much adrenaline after a WOT run.

      Raising the rev limiter to 6500 was something I wanted to do for years but would not change due to how old those valve springs were in my old heads.
      New heads and cams have many benefits, springs shouldn't break and the valves are much higher quality than the old stock ones.
      I didn't change the shift points yet to shift closer to 6500, but now when I have wheel spin I don't bounce off the rev limiter.
      I did lower shift points before and when the temperature changes I have to change them again so I was always chasing them to stop from hitting the rev limiter.
      So much better now.

      Today I will test out these spark plugs, and if time permits I want to raise the shift points and see what that does.
      Wish me luck!
      I will be happy if I can drive it home afterwards, Cecil County Drag Way is about 55 miles away.
      Well, it is time to get ready....
       
      • Like Like x 1
    19. delexploder

      delexploder Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      March 11, 2012
      Messages:
      1,908
      Likes Received:
      63
      Trophy Points:
      68
      City, State:
      Greenwood De.
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      97 ford explorer sport
      wish i wasnt so busy today or id shoot up there and watch
       
    20. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      So close to hitting 12.7's but just can't make it.

      IMG_1614.JPG
       
      • Like Like x 2
    21. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      12.806 run in 1/4 mile

       
      • Like Like x 5
    22. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 18, 2009
      Messages:
      4,698
      Likes Received:
      118
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Winnipeg, Manitoba
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      00 Limited V8
      So, correct me if I'm wrong.
      You went from 13.5 to 12.8 with the head and cam swap?

      12.8 is F'n fast by almost any standard.
       
    23. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      Before heads and cams I was able to pull 13.10's on my best day, 13.5's on warmer days.
      Since 2015 when I hit 12.827 I have been chasing the 12's but not getting back to them.
      That 12.827 was with a 2.5 inch pulley on stock GT500 supercharger and lots of belt slip/other problems.

      The overdriven GT500 supercharger cured my belt slip issues since I get the same or more boost with 3.3 inch pulley.
      The heads and cams seemed to relieve some restriction which lowers temps some in the combustion chamber.
      I got approximately 4 more degrees of advance but may have to remove that during warmer weather anyway.
      I was expecting a lot more from just installing heads and cams, so I have to say I am slightly surprised the truck is not faster.

      Today I could not get the truck to exceed aprox 6,000 rpms. Stuff in the tune just doesn't seem to work like you would think it would.
      I wish I could meet a 5R55E transmission tuning guru and have him show me the ropes.
      Still having issues with transmission shifting, that I thought I had all worked out. lol.

      I am not done playing with it, tomorrow is Atco Raceway for test and tune!
      And my goal is low 12's so I plan to spend more money on this truck until I get there or go broke. lol.

      One thing I will say is that the thing held up today.
      I drove it about 55 miles to Cecil County Maryland to race, got 11 runs in and drove it about 55 miles home.
      This truck owes me nothing.
       
      • Like Like x 2
    24. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      October 15, 2008
      Messages:
      10,601
      Likes Received:
      200
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      va beach
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      92explorer&94 ranger
      That trans is what id think is holding you back,but i have no clue honestly. .at the power your making id think a aftermarket convertor,clutches and valve body would be expected. .to me after a certain power level i feel things are just slipping to a certain extent and matter of time till it starts giving all the time..the 4.88s only help sooo much...not to jinx you or anything..lol

      I have the 5r55s in the aviator and have done alot of research on it..after all my mods to the trans it turned into a different truck till i blew the motor..lol
       
    25. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      April 3, 2008
      Messages:
      2,454
      Likes Received:
      150
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Gloucester City, NJ
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 2Dr,98 & 04 4dr xlt
      Went to Atco Dragway today, only got three runs in.
      At least two cars bounced off the walls, one did a 360.
      Then there were at least two cars that dirtied up the track with fluids.
      Spent so much time in line waiting for track clean up I called it quits at 2:00pm.
      Almost forgot it was Sunday and I have to work tomorrow, the morning shift too which means get up at 3:30am.

      Anyway I pulled some timing out while I was screwing around with some transmission settings.
      First two runs I had wheel spin which caused the shifts to happen later and some of the strange data in the log.
      See the first two pictures below. Look at the bogus RPM readings.
      The third run I changed a transmission fill time setting for the 2-3 shift.
      Unfortunately there was no wheel spin off the line so I don't know if I really fixed it or not.
      I was going to run the same tune again but never got to.
      Might have one or two more weekends to go testing if the tracks open and the weather holds up.

      Run 1 datalog screenshot.jpg Run 2 datalog screenshot.jpg Run 3 datalog screenshot.jpg
       
    26. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      February 18, 2009
      Messages:
      4,698
      Likes Received:
      118
      Trophy Points:
      83
      City, State:
      Winnipeg, Manitoba
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      00 Limited V8
      do you think you are hitting the limits of the factory pcm (sampling frequency, etc.), or just very strange anomalies that happen from time to time as we screw with things?

      The track sounds like it was super slick today. too bad. Shitty about the guys loosing it in to the rails, bad day for them for sure. Not fun for the guy that looses his bodily fluids all over the track, and not fun for everyone else that gets to wait for cleanup. I think I'd rather be the guy waiting for the cleanup than the offender. Either way, it sucks.
       

    Share This Page







    We Support Our Troops!