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My new 347

Discussion in 'Need for Speed!' started by Dono, May 22, 2015.


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    1. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Makes my eye twitch.
      I think on this torque converter thing, no one wants to touch it because there isn't really any money in it for them to do it. That's the only reason I can think of.

      It was funny that you talked about getting a letter in writing. That is kinda how my conversation went about "Who is going to pay if the thrust bearing goes out again because you told me that there is no issue?"

      And better than before is just about being reliable now. I'm going to keep boost at waste gate spring pressure (6 lbs). Once its tuned and working great, I'll introduce water/meth and see if I can get a couple more degree's of timing added. Then, I might try upping the boost slightly. lol
       
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    3. shucker1

      shucker1 Elite Explorer

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      1\32 = .031 we know that.
      4\32 = .125 we know that.

      Big difference. Now include thermal growth of crankshaft and thermal growth of transmission input shaft and we get even tighter.

      What's normal crankshaft thrust clearance? .010 Max? (Too lazy to get my books out)

      Perhaps find a custom fabrication shop that can water jet cut a thicker separator plate between the engine and transmission to get the clearance back?

      I know it's expensive but with all of the hell you have been through it might be worth it.

      My company truck is in the shop right now so I don't have my micrometers to tell you how thick mine is.
       
    4. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Referencing this post on my torque converter:
      http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/my-new-347.427497/page-23#post-3607154

      measuring with a flat blade across the bell housing and then measuring from from the flat blade to TC

      TC pilot spec is 1/8 inch doing this. I now have .093 ( way closer to 1/8 inch than I had).
      TC to flex mount is now 1 inch. That's exactly the spec I read.

      I think this should do it.

      TCS was extremely concerned about shortening the torque converter. When they received it and checked it out, it was dead on spec.
      They were concerned that if this TC goes in to anything else, there will be a different issue. That and changing sizes messes with the internals of the TC.
      They ended up taking 1/16 of an inch out. Not as much as I wanted, but it will give more room. It looks like they shortened the pilot slightly more also.

      TCS performed the work for me free of charge, Which is always appreciated.
       
    5. Josh P

      Josh P Shaggin Wagon Elite Explorer

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      Any plans to take it to the track when you get it finished?
       
    6. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Ummmm... No

      errrr,.........maybe

      Maybe under a low boost condition when I'm absolutely sure I have absolutely no detonation. I can't keep breaking shit.

      Right now, I just want my daily driver back. Being down a vehicle is slowly adding more stress to my family members.
       
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    7. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I had some friends show up in their modified Jeeps/4 Runner to go rock climbing on the Canadian Shield. I opted out of going with them to work around the house and get my motor put together. They over night at my place going to/from the location. And, as luck would have it, cold and rainy. They camped 2 nights and bugged out. The rain gives great traction on the rocks, but camping in the cold and rain isn't much fun. So, I worked happily away at putting my motor back together and in its engine bay while they were beating the crap out of their vehicles.

      This time when priming the oil pump/galleys I added my oil pressure gauge in the mix to make sure I was seeing pressure with the drill. 50 lbs. I'm going to call that good news.

      I didn't have much luck getting the motor past that hard AC line this time. It was super easy last time. Anyway, the compressor slid down from where I has it strapped, and suddenly the tell tale hissing <Insert swear words of your choice here>.At least it was that red-tek Freon replacement so it wasn't toxic to anyone or anything.
      Tim to the rescue again. His dad dropped off a replacement for me the next morning. Thanks Tim (and Dad)!

      Tonight, the front dress and rad wen't in. Then coolant. I really needed to know if the coolant was going to leak out as fast as I could pour it in. And, silence! All that could be heard was the sound of my feet on the ground doing the happy dance, Not pressure tested, but so far so good.

      Hopefully tomorrow I'll get some more done.

      crimped ac line.jpg
       
    8. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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      just dont booger that one up! its the last one we have lo!
       
    9. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Yes!!!! It is going back together!!!!
      So happy for you, keep the posts coming!
      Good luck to you on the rest of the install!
       
    10. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      It Lives! It Lives!!

      Fired right up, almost like I had done this before. lol

      Coolant system pressure checked good.
      No weird noises.
      At hot idle, there was about 35psi oil pressure, that's good.
      Once up to temp, vacuum was 18 (Its 22 during warmup with higher idle) That's good.

      Ran er up to temp, played with the throttle a bit, shut er down and changed the oil and filter.
      Oil looked good. Almost imperceptible swirls in the oil (I'm told that's normal on fresh engine start) and almost nothing at all on the magnetic oil drain plug.

      I still need to install the axles, inner fenders, and hood before I can go for a drive. I should be able to get that done tomorrow (As long as the crisis of the moment doesn't get in the way).

      Maybe I'll get to drive the poor old girl (sure doesn't sound like a poor old girl though) to work on Wednesday.
       
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    11. delexploder

      delexploder Elite Explorer

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      that's great news
       
    12. Josh P

      Josh P Shaggin Wagon Elite Explorer

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      Post a video of the maiden voyage.
       
    13. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Congratulations on getting her together again!
      You just made my morning, pictures or videos please.
      How did the welds look on the heads? Could you even see them?
       
    14. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      The welds looked really good. It looks like he kinda layered the puddles on (Coming from a non welder).
      The welder sill left recesses in the heads so I would have a fighting chance of installing the headers without completely crushing them. I should have taken pics.

      I didn't use break in oil on any of the other builds, but am on this one. I'm not sure that it really matters with a hydraulic cam, but I guess anything that can help seat the rings is a good thing. It kinda hurt draining fresh expensive oil and pouring in new expensive oil. I think the oil should stay in there for a few thousand miles. I wonder if I could go straight synthetic after that?
       

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    15. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Good news is appreciated, thanks. Break in oil is available I've seen lately, it has less additives and is for helping to seat the rings mostly. Woody and most engine builders now claim it doesn't take long for ring seating, the way they stone/prep the cylinders. I don't know about that for sure, but I'd still try to go 1000 miles before going to synthetic.
       
    16. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      No video, but its all great news.
      Before driving it to work, figured I better go for a drive first. so, off for gas I go.

      Way more low end torque. the torque converter is behaving more like a higher stall converter now, that's good. Before, it justcseemed to stall very quickly (to quickly).

      no leaks, and no other bad things happening. I'll start putting on a few mile and continue the logging/tuning.
      I worked a bit tonight at the difficult warm start issue I've always had. I think I'm pretty close now.
       
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    17. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      why is the torque converter acting differently now?
       
    18. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Good question, plus what was the stall speed supposed to be before, and now? Is it working at the stall speed it was made for? I wonder because the 2800rpm unit I have for my 347 may be wrong now for my NA only plans.
       
    19. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I can't really answer why the TC is acting differently. Now, say I'm stopped on a curb, and then need to lightly roll over it. The revs have to go up higher to get over that curb. It's acting exactly like a higher stall TC should now.

      The target stall was 2400rpm. Its a hybrid unit with a smaller body on one side, and a larger side (That has the lockup clutch) grafted to it.

      I'm starting to think that TCS loosened the TC a bit when they shortened the over all length by 1/16".

      I'm extremely happy with the space now when I installed the motor. At least you could actually see that the TC would pull forward to the flex plate now when tightening the TC nuts. Before it looked like the TC would only pull forward only a hair or two.

      The 2400 stall works extremely well with the lockup clutch. For a street vehicle, Id say its perfect. There is only the slight trade off from factory as I mentioned earlier. On the highway, the TC clutch is locked when cruising.

      I need to install the brains to that knock sensor I installed sooner than later.
       
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    20. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I half arsed installed my J&S Vampire last night. (hooked it up, but didn't mount the gauge or brain).

      I went for a drive on the highway with the vacuum port not connected and set the sensitivity.
      After setting sensitivity, I turned around and hit the gas. Probably not the smartest thing I've ever done, but inquiring minds needed to know.

      I eased in to it till I was at full wot. At about 70mph there was a shift and the rear tires broke loose for a moment. Then, they boost gauge hit about 14lbs and the Vampire gauge lit up like a Christmas tree. I let off the gas as soon as possible. I was afraid, very afraid.

      I could hear ticking under the hood. Of course, I feared the worst. Keep in mind with a turbo (Depending on size of the hot side) you build lots more exhaust back pressure. My turbo, being rear mount, is a T3 (small) hot side (This is for quick spool, and I don't want high boost since I have a stock block. Did I hurt my fresh motor? Did I take out a header gasket? Why did the boost suddenly spike? Did I set my boost controller Wrong? I thought I had backed it off so I was only on waste gate spring pressure (6 lbs).

      So, back home I went with all this whirling thru my mind. I popped the hood, and a hose had pushed off the dpfe valve. No surprise, exhaust back pressure pushed off the hose.
      I checked my boost controller, and it is backed right off. I disconnected it, just to be sure. I'm going to have to go back to the exhaust shop and have my waste gate plumbed differently, as it should be plenty big enough to handle the extra exhaust to keep the turbo from creating too much boost for my application.

      The exhaust back at the turbo (Where the waste gate is) is a 3" pipe. I just ordered a v-band clamp and flanges. This way, when the exhaust gets cut to do the waste gate, the v-band clamp can be added. No more cutting next time.

      I need to get this waste gate thing sorted out before any more WOT testing so I can control boost.
       
    21. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Is your waste gate bad/defective or did you have one that could handle more exhaust volume?
       
    22. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I had one that was too small.
      So, I purchased a bigger one.

      The exhaust shop just slid the new, larger pipe for the waste gate over the original, smaller one. I'm 99% sure this is the problem. The exhaust hole getting to the waste gate is too small.

      Either that, or the waste gate pipe needs to be angled a bit so it takes the exhaust flow better instead of being a T to the main exhaust pipe. I hope that makes sense.

      I sure wish I had the appropriate welding equipment and could weld. I was a bit upset when they just welded over the existing pipe and assured me it would work. The exhaust pipe needs to be cut out and the waste gate exhaust hole needs to be full size.
       
    23. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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      broke em at 70 eh?
      hit 14lbs of boost eh?
      i am going to need a larger blower now so at least if we line up, we will be in the same area code when you cross the finish line......
       
    24. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      I've spun tires going into 3rd gear, once, and that was on a narrow road that wasn't quite dry. Avoid spinning tires at speed, I've got the death pictures of my first Lincoln to show for it.
       
    25. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Too much boost can be a very bad thing. 91 octane gas and no water/meth. Very bad.

      Tonight I started looking things over.
      The dip switches were set wrong, they were set for a 4 cylinder. I must have been looking at the box upside down.

      Ok, so time to slow down and confirm things.
      I removed vacuum, and brought the revs above 1800 (Lass than 5lbs vacuum (More vacuum) and less than 1750 rpm the knock retard is disabled). I then set for maximum retard on all cylinders (Dip sw 1 and 2, along with sensitivity control). I then tapped on the knock sensor with a screw driver. Yup, rpm's dropped confirming the timing was being retarded.

      Keeping in mind the gauge does not light up at all when cruising, I mounted the gauge on the pillar. Shitty pic, but you get the idea.

      pillar mount.jpg
       
    26. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Make sure you are not using those crimp connectors to wire it in, they fail as we all know.
      Make sure it is soldered in, or engine failure could happen if you are relying on the vampire and it cant do it's job due to faulty connections.

      Also, back pressure should not be more than 8 psi according to some Ford literature.
      Keep in mind that the DPFE system can not handle more than that. That's why hoses blow off.
      If that hose did not blow off it probably would have blown exhaust gases right through the DPFE sensor or even melt through the EGR valve.
      These things do happen when cats clog and back pressure gets way too high, so if a custom turbo application causes high back pressure than same things can happen.
      I have several pass around parts at work that have been melted and blown through including many DPFE sensors and a couple EGR valves.
      I would love to know where your back pressure is when you get the boost under control.
       

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