MY trucks issues

[DarkFox1]

some late night contemplation

well I just got up lol

being as I dont have anything to do today I decided to stay up and talk to people on irc.

I found a guy there who had a 5.0 mustang.. and we talked for a good 3 hours about my truck (I know... but he doesn't hear it ALL THE TIME so it didn't bother him like it would most anyone else)

he pretty much asked me if I'd covered every base I have done. and began talking about the PCM..

he suggsted that my PCM was fried or on its way to being fried and should consider a replacement.

and this lead me to recall that my freshman year of college (like 2 or 3 years ago) on a cold november/december morning at 6AM my truck would not start and idle. it would start.. but I needed to keep my foot on the gas to keep it running.

I didn't have time to dick around about this, so I drove to campus like this. once the truck warmed up it would idle.. but still kind of sputtered.

After class I took it to the dealership and had them check it.... 2 hours later they concluded I had a bad IAC and a corrupt PCM. They replaced the IAC and the reflashed the PCM and charged me $250 for the whole deal.

Now one thing I now recall that I had forgotten when persuing my problems along the lines of mechanical transmission component failure.. is that when I reset my computer, the truck idles really smooth and the exhaust is quiet. The truck has a bit more pep.. but not much when its like this. The truck will stay like this for a week.. before it starts to fade back into its gimp self that it is now..

is it possible that my PCM is still corrupt? and is forgetting learned code after a period of time and reverting to a default that.. obviously doesn't work?

I was suggsested by 1 guy on here to get another PCM... as well as this guy that I talked to last night.. I dont think they're cheap enough to validate a switch w/o some proof.... but...

do you have a similar record with your truck v8? (that is.. resetting yeilds positive results for a short period)

 

[V8-X]

DarkFox1 - I really couldn't say if this happens. Meaning that it runs fine for about a week after reseting the PCM, then the PCM resorts back to a default/limp mode.

Got the X back from the Ford dealer last night, again nothing was found. I was very irritated, so I spoke to the Manager of their service dept.

He was kind of rude, basically stating that I was calling his techs liars when they are ASE certified and I had no mechanical back ground. This set me off, as I now felt he was calling me a liar.

None of his techs own or have driven a V8 X before and don't know what a V8 X should perform like. So they were just going off what the computer was stating, with no prior experience with the V8 model. They stated everything was running within specs, and that the PCM was performing properly and not fried (the computer told them this information). I asked about the shag/valet that stated he noticed a problem, but the Manager just stated "He's only a shag/valet, he doesn't know anything compared to the techs." Yeah Right!

I asked about the Flight Data Recorder, but the Manager stated they do not use them anymore. Typical!

By this point I was quite upset, so I stated I wanted my X and $108 for diagnosis service back. He wouldn't budge. I stated I was going to call Ford Motor Company & the BBB if he didn't, and he automatically became more cooperative. He stated he will contact a Ford Engineer here in Denver to setup an appointment for the Engineer to look at the X. He did state this may be after the New Year, since there is only one Egineer in the area and is unaware of the Engineers schedule. This made me feel a little better, not much though.

So I didn't get my $108 back, but hopefully I'll get a call from the Manager here in the next couple days to schedule an appointment for the Engineer to look at the X.

Since getting the X back, it still has problems. I haven't been able to drive the X long enough to see how often or how bad the problem still occurs. They referred to my K&N Air Filter being dirty, so I'll clean this tonite. But I don't think a dirty filter would cause the problems that I'm having, or at least not this severe. Maybe, but not likely.

 

[Robert]

Your PCM is warranted by Ford for 8 years, 80K miles. If your PCM is bad, they will replace it under warranty. Unfortunately you seem to have a very difficult time convincing anyone at Ford that their is anything wrong with yours I had my PCM reflashed at 50K miles under warranty for a hesitation problem.

As a side note, on the Ford-Trucks board, someone posted a message that their 5.0L was acting very similar to yours. They took theirs to Ford and they reflashed their PCM. They said it made a world of difference. They gained back all of the power they thought they remembered it having. I thought it was V8-X that made the post. Since he mentioned here that his is acting up again, I didn't bother mentioning it. If it wasn't V8-X that made the post, reflashing (or replacing) the PCM might be a viable solution, especially if you can convince Ford that yours is bad and get it replaced under warranty.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

DarkFox, the more you explain the more it seems like it IS the PCM. The EECV has a "learning curve" - so it "Adapts" to your driving style and any engine mods. This learning curve is cleared whenever the battery is disconnected for about 30 minutes, and the EEC is reset and returns to its original blank state. This fault in the learning feature could be the EEC itself, or some of the sensors (not actuators) feeding the EEC.

A broken EEC would give the symptoms you've described it seems. The IAC is directly controlled by the EEC (everything is.....unfortuantley).

The EEC could have been damaged by a failed component at one time, an electrical surge, water leak, extreme shock... whatever. Just think of what would happen if you took a laptop computer and put it under the hood of the X. That's an extreme example, but along the same lines.

Good luck,
Aaron

 

[V8-X]

Robert - I did post that message regarding the Reflashing of the PCM. This did seem to work for I'd say about 4 days, then the problem slowly made it's way back to where it was before. Maybe it is the PCM? So this is why I've been following up on this post with DarkFox1.

 

[DarkFox1]

wow.. you know how to work them v8.. I guess since you're about.. 26? according to your profile.. unless myu math is horrible.. which it usually is lol

I'm 21.. the vehicle is in my mothers name on the insurance and in my fathers with the work/repairs at the dealership. when my father shows he gets all kinds of attention a "yes sir no sir" blah blah.. I get treated like **** and ignored.

the main guy that I always work with (the one I can't stand) refused to even help me.. and handed me off to another salesman throwing his hands in the air and going "this ones yours mark, I dont work with this one"

the flight thing returned NOTHING UNUSUAL as I figured.. despite taking pics of what I considered to be annoying at best problems (all of this is annoying at best.. its running isn't it?) they told me that if the PCM were fried.. the outputs from the PCM would SHOW that the PCM was fried...

I dont think so..

I think if the PCM were fried.. the numbers it would display would be correct to what they should be.. as it would be THINKING thats the reading its getting.. whether it is or not.

these techs refuse to go below the top layer..

can you look at a potato's skin and tell if it has any bad spots? not usually.. the same applies for a car.

I'm so fking irritated with this thing.. no one ever finds anything.. I talked to "american speed center" down the road about it.. they agreed with ford, saying that if ithe PCM was fried you would know it by the readings it gives you.. they also said that my lack of perofrmance is because my vehicle "is getting old" (5 years 70k miles) and that its simply losing compression.. they offered to do a "leakdown" test for $60.. I scheduled an appointment to TALK to him with my print outs and dyno #s and see what he thinks.. but I'm thinking of canceling this apt.

btw thanks for the insight boatbuilder and.. robert.. if both of our PCMs were reflashed that may be something to go on.... but unless jesus christ walks in with his hand on my shoulder and tells these people to replace it that its bad.. they're not going to bend..

they're such @ssholes there.. the tech people are.. the front end are wonderful polite people and the tech. manager is a great guy.. but the rest of his techs can kiss my @ss (I'm trying to keep the obscenities back but they keep getting through.. sorry)

 

[james t]

wow. "this one's yours Mark, i dont work with this one. "this one"? WTF does that mean? you are a better man than i am. i would be calling my wife from jail. i got mad just reading your post.:fire:

 

[DarkFox1]

this guy is a transfer.. he was trained in one of those.... import.. dealerships.. mitsubishi to be exact.. hes a real kiss @ss to my dad, but wont even talk to me after I had sort of an argument with him as to why he refused to write certain thins down on the ticket for my vehicle.

I told him 3 times to write down to look at the trannyt position sensor and the MAS and he was like "the technicnans will know what to look for"


this was a while back.. not recently

 

[V8-X]

Actually I'm 24, but close enough.

Just have to really back them into a corner to let them know who's paying who. Don't worry, I used to have that problem. Takes a while to get up the balls to actually confront them. Hell, this Ford dealer has looked at it three different times & is now calling in an engineer to help out. At least this is what I was informed.

I'm just curious on what kind of cost this may end up being. Any ideas anyone, ballpark figure? The Service Manager stated it would be like a normal diagnosis fee, but I'm not to sure about that since these engineers are supposedly specialists.

I was also told by Ford that the PCM would show some forms of defects if it was bad. But what if this problem occurs at certain load conditions that they can't see while sitting at idle doing their tests.

Just noticed something about the X. It seems like the problem is more consistant when the X has been driving for a while (20-30 minutes minimum). While Christmas shopping tonite, I noticed the problem a lot more than usual. This was in a good amount of traffic, stop & go from one store to another, so the X never really had time to cool down much. Also I followed when the problem occurs most. With the O/D off, I notice the problem between 35-40mph, and with O/D on it usually happens at about 45-50mph. This is usually right after a shift point or when the torque converter locks up.

Thoughts?

 

[DarkFox1]

hrm.. mine seems more the opposite.. once it warms up the problems seem to even out, given they do not go away.. if you crank it up and its giving you a problem.. its going to keep giving you a problem as long as you keep it running for that "session" of driving.

24? hrmm... well I guess that explains why pre-calc didn't come so easy this semester lol

my O/D is retarded.. if I'm cruising in 3rd at 40-45.. and I take my foot off the gas.. it stays in 3rd.. as soon as I TOUCH the gas again.. the truck goes into overdrive.. well this is bad cos I usuallu dont put back on gas until I'm about to climb a hill.. so after going into o/d it immediatley has to leave it to climb the hill.. and it takes 10 seconds to do that.

What particular problem are you tracing with these speeds? At the speeds you mentioned before my 1st tranny was rebuilt I had a jerking feeling when pressing or releaseing the gas.. when they swapped out the tranny.. it didn't stop

 

[V8-X]

Well, it is sort of similar to yours DarkFox1. Soimetimes the problem is just there when you start it. At other times, you can start it and the problem seems very small. But once the X gets warmed up whether it is highway driving or city driving (20-30minutes), the problem becomes worse and more noticable.

My X has the problem most commonly when you let off the gas (going 35-40mph with O/D off or 45-50mph with O/D on), and then trying to reaccelerate. At these times, my RPM's are right around 1500. When I reaccelerate it feels as though the truck is dragging something, and the trans/engine/exhaust sounds like it starts to bog down (deep engine&exhaust tone, grunting from trans). I get 1 or 2 jerks when this happens, which I usually let off the gas & reapply the gas a little firmer which gets me past the bogging down part. When reaccelerating, the RPM's & Speedometer raise very slowly and there is a small vibration felt.

My truck doesn't switch in to O/D like your Mounty. I do get the jerking every once in a while when trying to accelerate after letting off ther gas for a moment, but usually when I let off the gas it doesn't jerk. It just seems as though it has a difference in the engine braking when I let off the gas (decelerates really quick and by tone of engine/exhaust).

I think my X should be down shifting when I apply the gas at my problem speeds, but doesn't. It's like it stays in to high of a gear, and won't downshift unless I almost floor it. This is why my X is getting the bogging down sensation, at least this is conclusion.

Sound anything like yours DarkFox1?

 

[DarkFox1]

similar.. but yours sounds much worse.

man how the hell can they say all thats normal??

my trucks problems are really more of things that I notice.. that only one who drives a car like mine would know.. I mean.. a person who is used to driving an old beat up chevy truck.. my car would be quick.. handle well and drive trouble free.. but compared to like.. a towncar.. it would shift rough and be about the same speed..

but if these problems ar eas bad as you say, I dont see how they can say its normal.. even if they DONT drive an X

 

[V8-X]

That's the thing. I don't know how long the tech is driving the truck. If it starts up good, it may take 20-30 minutes for the problem to start up. Also what type of traffic is the tech driving in? Is he not driving at the speeds that I reffered him to, or is he thinking "lack of power" and flooring it each time.

Makes you wonder.

My friend who knows almost nothing about automobiles drove it when this problem was happening, and he was shocked. He's not used to many V8 model automobiles lossing a hill climb to a suzuki swift. This is normal? I think not.

I'm only 24 and I'm getting a reseeding hair line. This is going to make me go bald by the time I am 25 if I don't find out what's wrong.

 

[V8-X]

DarkFox1 - Just noticed yesterday a problem that is similar to yours again. When I engage the Cruise Control, the X starts to pick up speed. It picks up speed for a moment then slows down & stays at the speed where I set the Cruise Control. Wonder what could be causing this.

 

[Robb]

Originally posted by V8-X
DarkFox1 - Just noticed yesterday a problem that is similar to yours again. When I engage the Cruise Control, the X starts to pick up speed. It picks up speed for a moment then slows down & stays at the speed where I set the Cruise Control. Wonder what could be causing this.

Does it only gain a 1-2 mph, then back down? I have been in many vehicles that do the same thing, I would have to say it is normal.

Robb

 

[SaleenEXP]

It's perfectly normal like Robb said for any vehicle to pick up a few miles per hour when Cruise Control is engaged, and then fall back to the set speed. Every car/truck does this, now, if yours jumps like 10mph and keeps pulling or is jerky, ya got a problem

 

[DarkFox1]

I dont mean picks up.. I mean the vehicle floors it.. lets off.. floors it.. lets off.. and then resumes the speed I set it at..

its overall a 5mph change..

 

[CobraXP]

Dark - do you have access to another PCM? If not, let me know. I have one in the garage on the shelf. You can come down to Atlanta one day and we'll stck it in and see how it does...

 

[DarkFox1]

na, I dont have access to another one.. and certainly wouldn't be able to get one for free..

does it matter any specifics about the vehicle that would determine the type of PCM? 2wd, 4wd, gear ratio and type. that stuff?

 

[CobraXP]

The one I have is an SLL4 - for a V8, 2wd. Your's is 2wd isn't it? Should work as long as it is...