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No foglights, marker lights, taillights or cluster lights....

Discussion in 'Stock 1995 - 2001 Explorers' started by DennyStew, March 7, 2018.

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    1. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      Hello all...I am new to the forum and desperately need help. I have the problem as described above in the subject line with my 2001 Explorer Sport. I have all the typical symptoms...no lights as described above, but my headlights, brake lights, turn signals and interior dome lights all work fine. I have replaced both the headlight switch and dimmer switch. I have electrically checked every fuse in the block and every relay in the distribution box under the hood. When I disconnect the battery and then reconnect, the marker lights upfront, the tailights and the cluster lights all blink twice together but that is the only time they work. I am completely frustrated and stumped. Can anyone help please?
       
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    3. J_C

      J_C Well-Known Member

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      Seems likely to be the Park Lamp Relay, try swapping it with the one-touch down relay. It's in a box on the right side of the driver's footwell.

      If that doesn't turn out to be the problem, grab the 2nd Gen Wiring Diagrams linked in my sig and check the file named exterior-lights-exterior-lamps.

      The fog lights out may be a separate issue. There is a fuse for them (#8 in the under hood distribution box) but since you state you checked them all, it's probably a separate relay for them under the air intake filter box.

      I don't know if there are any differences between US and Canadian Explorer lighting circuits, but suspect the relays either way. In some regions and vehicles, their fog lights won't come on if the headlight high beams are on... illegal or something.

      Battery Saver Relay 1999.gif
       
      Last edited: March 7, 2018
    4. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      Thank you very much for your response. I will have a go at it tomorrow and let you know. I appreciate your time.
      Dennis
       
    5. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      So I found the box you referred to. The relay config is not exactly as the one you posted, but similar. I meter-tested each small relay and even rotated them in the box. Still no lights...I am nearly out of my mind with this problem.
       
    6. J_C

      J_C Well-Known Member

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      I don't know when/what changed relay box layout but here's another one. Meter testing would require putting 12V across the coil to energize it and close the open relay contacts, but assuming that one you swapped into the park lamp position was working in its prior position then it should have kept working.

      Beyond that you're left using a multimeter to trace all along the circuit to see where 12V stops. I've edited the 2nd pic to leave only the parts of the circuit under consideration, the rest just branches out to the other lights at point "S401" on the diagram, or "S244" for the tail lights. The problem would be at S401 or before it to affect everything. I'd start by turning the headlights on and measuring whether there is 12V on relay socket pin 5, and 1, and 12V on headlamp switch pin 3 when it's turned to parking lamp on position.

      Under Dash Fuse Box  -CJB Central Junction Box.png

      exterior lights.png
       
      Last edited: March 8, 2018
    7. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      Here is the box in my driver's footwell with the config I'm talking about.

      IMG_1561.JPG

      I electrically tested the four F57B relays as you have described (energizing the coil; testing for resistance). I then rotated them just to cover all possibilities. I also replaced the larger square relay (black one; FOAB..?) above with a new unit. No success...I will proceed as you have advised with the trace. Thank you very much again for your time. Please stay tuned...
       
    8. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      I suppose I will have to remove the box to see which socket has the tan/white wire(s) leading to it. There's no way to definitively know by just looking at the front.
       
    9. J_C

      J_C Well-Known Member

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      Remove fuse 11 and use a multimeter to check for continuity between fuse 11 out and each socket location's pin 1 or 5, since the tan/white connects the two.

      Keep in mind that if your footwell relay box changed, it might be possible that something else is different too. I mean if your owners manual indicates some other fuse than #11 is for this circuit then trust it more than me.
       
    10. J_C

      J_C Well-Known Member

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      Wait. I got curious and looked up a 2001 Sport relay box that matches what you pictured and don't see the exterior lights relay in it!

      I don't know where it is in your vehicle unless it's the "Indicator Flasher Relay", but isn't that one of those mechanical flasher modules for the turn signals?

      2001 Explorer Sport Relay Box

      Relay Box 2001 Explorer Sport.gif
       
      Last edited: March 8, 2018
    11. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      Relay Modules 1-3.jpg
      Relay module #1 above looks a lot like the picture I posted in my previous post...If that's it, then the park lamp relay is not there.

      Relay module #4 below shows the park lamp relay housed within. This module seems to be somewhere in the instrument panel. That's where I'm off to next...

      Relay Modules 4-5.jpg
       
    12. J_C

      J_C Well-Known Member

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      That relay seems to be in the driver's side rear quarter panel, at least that's what member handyman2011 stated here for his '98 Sport:
      Parking Light Problem

      I'd just going to backtrack and state that I have no idea where it is, lol.
       
    13. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      The one in the rear is located inside the tire jack compartment. The one I'm referring to seems to be located behind the instrument cluster.
       
    14. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      Going out to look for it now...
       
    15. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      There is no relay module inside my jack compartment. There is basically nothing in there at all. I cannot see another module behind the instrument cluster either. I haven't pulled it all the way out, but have shined a light back there and can't really see anything.
       
    16. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      There has to be someone on this earth who has changed a park lamp relay in a 2001 Explorer Sport...(sigh).
       
    17. J_C

      J_C Well-Known Member

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      A few other thoughts I have are to pull the headlight switch to see if it's not conducting through the Parking Lamp output in the on position, and if you have the Autolamp feature (mirror with adjustable time-out and light sensing to turn headlights on) there may be corrosion of the wires going to it.

      Another idea is that if your '01 is built after a certain date (7/24/00 ?) it may have the next generation PATS security system and maybe more is also changed over to the next generation wiring meaning this circuit may be more similar to that of a 3rd gen Explorer.

      If that is true, it could be more like the following wiring diagram with the Park Lamp relay in the "Vehicle Security Module", wherever that might be - Except in our prior generation that was in the left rear quarter panel (for Sports too or did they even have that factory option ??):
      2004 NBX Exterior Lighting Woes!!!!

      As far as your prior picture of the dash module, I suspect that what they did there was just draw it sideways and out of proportions (their diagrams are horrific, lol). Notice how the following two pictures could be about the same thing, yet you've already pictured a box in yours for that location that looks like neither:

      Instrument Relay Module 4

      1.jpg
      vs this rotated 90 degrees
      2.png
       
      Last edited: March 9, 2018
    18. J_C

      J_C Well-Known Member

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      One other possibility I might entertain, considering the age of the vehicle and having a desire to work towards a known outcome if other avenues become exhausted, is DIY wire this.

      IF your circuit is like the diagram I posted in post #5, then the Headlamp Switch is not just a logic switch to trigger the relay, it's directly switching the Parking Lamp current from pin 5 to pin 3. Since you can't find the relay, or I haven't even considered the possibility yet that you Just Don't Have One which seems a lot more likely if you don't have the Autolamp headlight feature, you could wire the Headlight Switch output pin 3 to the closest wire you can find that is the common positive for all these lights. That wire is brown in the diagram in post #5 but if other things are different then maybe the wire color is too - It is probably the same color at the Parking Light bulb(s) connector(s).

      In the diagram that's a brown wire going to junction S401. If I were going down this route of DIY wiring, what I might do next is grab a spare long piece of wire, connect it to battery positive then pull out one of the Parking Light sockets to access its positive wire lead, being careful to be sure you don't pick the ground lead as this would make a direct short to ground from the battery.

      Having selected the bulb positive lead you could connect the jumper wire temporarily to see if all lights work. I think I'd prefer to have a fuse on that temporary jumper wire but then again if there were a short in the circuit, it seems like it should have blown out the fuse box fuse for it already.

      Anyway if that jumper wire will get the lights working then you'd disconnect it from the battery positive, connect to the Headlamp Switch instead and string it to one of those Parking lights positive leads permanently. This assumes you have already tested that the Headlamp switch works, does produce 12V out on pin 3 when turned on. This assumes your Headlamp Switch stayed the same too, lol.
       
    19. J_C

      J_C Well-Known Member

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      I saw a post where someone with an '02 Explorer has some sort of box at the rear of the RIGHT rear quarter panel. Picture and topic as follows, the problem is different but it indicates to me that something was placed in the right rear qtr panel with the design change:

      Explorer XLT: I have a 2002 Explorer. Door ajar light stays…

      box.jpg
       
    20. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      So all of your thoughts are good ones, and I appreciate your time more than I can say. I will most likely begin the chase as you've suggested here very soon. One thing still bothers me though...I have been comparing all the relay module diagrams and pictures that we have posted here. I believe right now that there is at least one more relay module in the truck somewhere that I haven't found yet. I guarantee that there is nothing in the rear quarters on either side. I'm going to continue the search up front and keep digging on the 'net. If I can't find that damn relay module, then I will indeed have to consider the DIY job.
       
    21. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      Ok...so I am pretty happy to report that I have finally solved this maddening mystery and restored my tail lights, dash lights, tag lights and parking lights. The actual solution was not what I was expecting, and it took a lot of research. As you know, I have been searching for the elusive park lamp relay on my 2001 Sport 2-door. I managed to locate 2 other relay modules in addition to the main distribution box. The little one under the air filter had only one relay in it and it was a larger square one, not the little rectangle one that the park lamp relay should be. I found another one up on the right of the driver's foot well as suggested. I was hoping that it would be one of the following configurations...

      upload_2018-3-13_17-50-45.png

      or this...

      Relay Box w:Park Lamp.png

      But the one in my truck was neither one of these. Mine looks like this...

      IMG_1561.JPG

      Which of course, is actually this...
      Relay Box w:o Park Lamp.png

      So I decided that I was still missing at least one more module relay. Short of tearing my entire truck apart however, I just couldn't find another one. Immensely frustrated, I decided to make sure that I was at least working off of the correct I/P fuse panel diagram. I compared the one I was using to the actual I/P fuse block I have. I found a few discrepancies, so I went looking for others to compare. I finally found one for an actual 2001 Sport, not a Sport Trac or anything else similar from the same generation. The original one I had indicated that fuse #5 (15 amp) was "not used". That space in my fuse block was indeed, empty. The later diagram that I found indicated that fuse #5 was for the "Park Lamps". So I put a new 15 amp fuse in there, and guess what? Yeah, all the lights worked.

      You're probably thinking that this guy is an idiot. Well maybe, but I would swear in a court of law that I was sitting in the truck with the engine running when the lights failed. I know I was, because I went out there at night to aim the headlights. So if it was just a failed fuse, where did it go? Why was the space in the block empty? I'm still lost on that one...

      I did pull all the Maxi fuses to test them and then reinstalled them. Maybe that shook something up, I don't know. Believe me, I'm just thrilled the problem is solved, but in the end I'm not 100% sure what the fix actually was. One more thing, I never did find the damn park lamp relay. It's not in the main box, not under the air filter, not in the footwell and not in the rear body panels on either side. If someone else reads this some day and you know where it actually is on my 2001 Explorer Sport, I would love to hear from you.
       
    22. J_C

      J_C Well-Known Member

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      Glad you got it fixed. That is odd that the fuse disappeared.

      Does the vehicle not have the Autolamp feature (including the rearview mirror with slider for timed adjustment)? The lights could be run straight from the switch without that feature. It is what needs a relay involved.

      I don't recall but possibly the anti-theft system flashes the lights too, if so then it also needs the relay. Do you have a remote keyfob with the red button that sets the alarm off? Heh, it's a bit late at night here for me to "accidentally" set mine off to see if the lights flash.

      I haven't used that feature in years, think the last time was when I bent over funny and something in my pocket pressed up against the red button and I just happened to be close enough to the vehicle to activate it.
       
      Last edited: March 14, 2018
    23. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      No Autolamp feature...just a plain old mirror. Can't recall if the FOB has a panic feature...it's out in the garage with the truck right now. The lights do flash when you unlock the doors or reconnect the battery though, I know that. They would also flash as such before I put the new fuse in the panel. This has been a strange one to say the least...lost a few hours sleep for sure.
       
    24. DennyStew

      DennyStew New Member

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      ...and here's one more for you. The same manual that provided me with the correct I/P fuse panel diagram, also provided this main distribution box schematic:
      Screen Shot 2018-03-13 at 11.01.35 PM.png
      Only my main distribution box looks like this one:

      Dist Box diagram.gif
      Notice the discrepancy at the relay #48 position...the manual indicates only one relay there. But as in the diagram directly above, I have two relays in that position(s) - 48A and 48B. It would seem that my Sport differs from the published literature in more than just one instance. I wish I knew why...
       

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